I don't know how you scholar mains do it.

I can tell you right now, all SCH needs is a nerf to AST.
That may sound weird, but SCH isn't a weak job. It's only weak compared to what AST can do, which is pretty much everything you can but better.

Same with WHM. It's not weak, but compared to AST it just seems underwhelming.
As for difficulty in healing, I think we've all had to use more of our kit to heal now.

I can no longer out a buffed Regen plus asylum up and neglect the tank anymore. Sometimes I find myself spamming Cure II and Bension. That's not SCH being weak, it's them using their full kit to heal with ,as a healer should be doing.

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Originally Posted by shadowrell_d-_-b

Sch doesn't suck, a good sch can still handle any fight on the game, its just extremely clunky now and at times a bit annoying, add the fact that 9 times out of ten my biggest class addition this expac (the fairy gauge) will just sit at 100 for the duration of a fight because its just not very useful and you get a class that just need a lil more love!

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This, pretty much. As many others have said, SCH is "viable", and usable in all fights in game - this however kind of applies to every single job in game right now... but that doesn't mean all jobs are equally useful and balanced :) as it is I sort of feel our toolkit doesn't mesh well together very well - kind of the opposite, the main example coming to mind right now being dissipation and aetherpact. Our supposed SB-skill with the eagerly awaited most usefulness clashes awfully with our last HW tool (which was already extremely situational at best, but with SB I've found myself needing more and more AF stacks so I've used it sometimes completely murdering my fairy gauge). It needs tweaking, is all - NOT TO THE AOE HEALING SKILLS.

EDIT: skimmed by some posts above mentioning how we have adloquium as "our version" of cure/benefic 2 - would just like to point out that adlo costs approximatedly twice as much MP as either of those skills at lvl 70, with slightly lower potency and with we no longer are the infinite MP healing job :) (aetheflow nerfed, adlo cost amped up and ED costing an AF stack, if you're willing to risk that for insignificant MP gain). Emergency tactics is nice when it's off cooldown, but not that nice lmao.

EDIT #2:@Exiled_Tonberry: as fun as AST is to play right now, I agree with you. I don't really need SCH as OP as it was back in HW, because frankly speaking soloheal Eos is... boring, to say the least, and our nice DPS output was cool to fill up some time since we barely had anything to heal. I really don't want to or feel the need to get back to that, I just want healers to be somewhat balanced enough that one doesn't make the others seem so lackluster.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

Never said white mage didn't have more overall dps. The previous person mentioned casting more than broil 2 and there are options. The amount of whining over the loss of dps skills is getting old. you have buttons to press with dps may not be what you used to have but they are there. As for Gravity it will chew the astrologians mana up super quick. The fact is if you want the dps healer move over to white mage. It's the dps healer now. Would I be upset if they reverted the bane nerf, hell no. But I'm also not going pretend like you don't use more than just broil 2.

Some folks just seem to on this crusade to regain/buff scholar to X. When buffing scholar might not be the answer. Bring the offending skills/classes out of the rafters first.

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"Bringing them down" is what happened to SCH with their focus on normalization, or making all classes close to the same instead of individualistic. I can't say I would support the idea of doing it further to any class, especially since the SCH's DPS strengths didn't rely on its actual moveset, but on the fact that Cleric Stance was a thing and they excelled at working around it.

Looking at the current state of things:
- All healers have a single direct damage spell to spam in the potency order of Malefic III (220), Broil II (230), and Stone IV (250).
- All healers have comparable base DoTs. AST have a single DoT in Combust II for 50 potency per tick. SCH have Miasma and Bio II for a combined potency per tick of 70. WHM have Aero II and Aero III for a combined pot of 90. These values exclude initial hit damages but Miasma deal 20 on application and Aero II and III both deal 50 on hit.
- All healers have an AoE damage component on a 60 second cooldown. Earthly Star is 200 potency in damage (though it is potentially effected by pet-tax so it may deal 30% less). SCH have Shadowflare which is effectively 250 pot (5 ticks) over 15 seconds. WHM have Assize which deals 300 pot in damage. While Shadowflare is more versatile as the damage component is unbound to the swiss-army-knife functions of Earthly Star and Assize, it's broken up into server tick applications and has a positional condition to balance it with the other two.
- Additionally healers have mechanic-based ogcd attacks to supplement their DPS with heavy cost decision. AST have Lord of Crowns which is a 300 potency ogcd attack that requires the sacrifice of a drawn card and a 50/50 chance of RNG. SCH have Energy Drain which is a 150 pot ogcd with minor cooldown but at the cost of an aetherize stack per use. WHM have no equivalent, likely as a balance to their better potencies across the board, though they are able to use Presence of Mind with Stone IV for exceptional burst.
- AST furthermore have their standard card-buff functions (particularly Balance), which is likely the reason for their lower potencies in general.

In terms of AoE in addition to the 60s-available Earthly Star/Shadowflare/Assize, AST have Gravity (potency 200, 10% diminish per target until 50%), WHM have Holy (potency 200 with Stun, 10% diminish per target until 50%) as well as Aero III (40 pot DoT without diminish, not always preferable to use compared to straight Holy spam), and SCH can Bane their two dots (70 potency combined, 20% diminish per target until 20% starting with the second target spread to). Bane's benefit is that it's a one-and-done effect and not a mana-draining cast, though it costs a stack, and Shadowflare's sole benefit is that it can always be used for DPS as ES and Assize are mainly healing utilities with damage bonuses, but this is a weak balance to SCH's AoE deficit in general. And to be fair, Gravity is really a poor man's Holy, as not only does it target an enemy but it completely lacks the safety feature of Holy's stun effect.

For SCH, compare this to HW where they had Bio (40 potency), Miasma (35 potency), Bio II (35 pot), and Aero (25 pot) for 135 potency per tick on single target and 110 for Bane AoE purposes (130 if you had enough targets to want to use Miasma II), as well as a 50 potency damage spam in the form of Blizzard II if you wanted to use that. This is pretty solid alongside the restrictions of Cleric Stance given DoTs tick while you do other things and they were mostly easy to keep up on targets, though all things considered healer DPS is always considered a bonus and never a role focus, and it's really quite simple and limited gameplay when examined in a vacuum (and the burst utility was legitimately garbage). Thing is though, when you already have such a limited moveset, having it reduced further just makes it feel worse.

SCH currently have a burst phase, that's hindered by some much thing for what it does. Cleric stance is on a 90 seconds while all his other CD are on 60 seconds cooldown cycle, but well, I though I could play with that.
Then I hit lv68 and I noticed eatherflow always was on cooldown when the burst phase was available.

I spent my 8 first level trying to fnd a way to play the news SCH, only for it to became unstable because random procs.

Topic starts off as a pat on the back to SCHs that have stormed thru the less than favorable changes to the class
Devolves into a s***storm that goes back and forth, arguing SCH is fine vs it's not fine.

SMH.

I cannot comment on personal experience on SCH yet as I've yet to try him post 4.0 but I honestly do see a vast majority of SCHs struggling doing pulls that my WHM was able to do with relative ease. Maybe they were bad players, maybe not but I do see it happen more often than not that I can't help feel something is wrong

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

Topic starts off as a pat on the back to SCHs that have stormed thru the less than favorable changes to the class
Devolves into a s***storm that goes back and forth, arguing SCH is fine vs it's not fine.

SMH.

I cannot comment on personal experience on SCH yet as I've yet to try him post 4.0 but I honestly do see a vast majority of SCHs struggling doing pulls that my WHM was able to do with relative ease. Maybe they were bad players, maybe not but I do see it happen more often than not that I can't help feel something is wrong

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Yeah i was hoping to avoid it devolving into a opinion war on scholar being fine vs not fine and berating people's/my skill with the job due to my less than stellar experience healing with it in groups, but I'm done debating it, the dead horse has been beaten enough. I still maintain a high amount of respect and admiration for scholars who are sticking with it, just wanted to vent some of my more recent frustrations trying to heal bad groups. Anyhow, take care all.

We were hit with the need bat pretty hard this expansion. First our adlo is weaker then astro, cost more manna and has a cast time. Shields are suppose to be out thing, they should have given us an instant cast shield instead that crappy excog. Next is out fairy nerf, just put them back to 3.0 and we are good. Eye for an eye is directly tied into our deployment tactics yet it's a role abiloty, that makes no sense. Please rework the useless ability dissipation while you're at it and give us back our AOE miasma 2 or something similar. Lastly, the nerf to bane is just too much. I feel like our identity has been stolen from us.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

Excogitation is pretty flawed. Excog is useable, and I go out of my way to use it, but there's no occasion currently where I couldn't just use Lustrate instead.

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excog is used in raids / 8mans during tankbusters. its very powerful against Stormsplitter for example. it's usefulness will go up once omega is released.

I didnt read every post since, 1 its probably mostly the same stuff, and 2 im on my cell, do hard to type. But thr new SCH sucks. Yes you can do the job, but you will struggle and not bevause of anyone's derps, you will just struggle. The fairy now is worthless, her heals are pitiful, and we are relying on our old skills since the new ones suck bad. We even have 2 level cap skills that fight one another. We need a hotfix bad.

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Originally Posted by paoweeotter

excog is used in raids / 8mans during tankbusters. its very powerful against Stormsplitter for example. it's usefulness will go up once omega is released.

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That's not really powerful, it's only a convenient precast. Delay make precast somewhat hasardous, but excog is instant more reliable.
A situation where it would really shine would something lik A1S missiles mechanic where two different player are targeted by multiple instance of damage until they die. Excog would allow one player to burst heal two target at the same time, and that's something new.