Slight Monk rework

The positional bonuses are part of why MNKs personal DPS is so high. Remove that and then you'd have to nerf MNKs DPS in order to keep the Job balanced. So then you get a Job that provides no offensive utility, whilst providing potentially lower damage than the ones that do.

So what just accept half damage due to being force to evade an attack? Basically as it stands now you either take an attack but keep damage or give up half your damage to move outta the way. Sorry but that seems like something that needs reworked.

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Originally Posted by Vorx

So what just accept half damage due to being force to evade an attack? Basically as it stands now you either take an attack but keep damage or give up half your damage to move outta the way. Sorry but that seems like something that needs reworked.

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If you're bad at the Job, maybe.

The challenge in playing melee classes is being able to maintain as much uptime as possible whilst dealing with mechanics. Vast majority of fights are scripted so the same 'hurdles' are going to come up at the same points, every time. Your job is to learn how to handle those moments, not ask for the job to be dumbed down. Practice makes perfect.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

If you're bad at the Job, maybe.

The challenge in playing melee classes is being able to maintain as much uptime as possible whilst dealing with mechanics. Vast majority of fights are scripted so the same 'hurdles' are going to come up at the same points, every time. Your job is to learn how to handle those moments, not ask for the job to be dumbed down. Practice makes perfect.

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Thanks elite, problem is the skills not the player. You could be the best Monk ever but if you have to dodge something the bonus fad on their own, you have no choice. And its not like you can't, most of the expansion runs have massive dodging involved, if you just stood there you'd be dead and a burden for the healer. My suggestions would lower your over all DPS yes but you'd be able to keep decent damage output going while giving the Healer less to focus on, and the output wouldn't even be that big of a chance. at best you'd do about the same as a Nin.

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Originally Posted by Vorx

Thanks elite, problem is the skills not the player.

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You're the only one here complaining about MNK positionals, so I'm inclined to think the problem is you and not the Job having positionals.

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You could be the best Monk ever but if you have to dodge something the bonus fad on their own, you have no choice.

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Which isn't unique to MNK.

If you have to dodge something but can still hit the target, you still hit the target. It's that simple. If you can't hit the target at all, then you time it so you disengage during the GCD (where you wouldn't be able to attack anyway), then go back to the boss at the earliest opportunity. If you're struggling to maintain uptime in fights, then the problem is you not the Job.

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Originally Posted by Vorx

So what just accept half damage due to being force to evade an attack? Basically as it stands now you either take an attack but keep damage or give up half your damage to move outta the way. Sorry but that seems like something that needs reworked.

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Job asks for pre-planning and/or risk, making it more exciting --> must be fixed?

Well once again the elites ruin ANOTHER post.. To the people who were in here at the start thank you, we had some decent discussions but of course "these people" had to try and one up everything.
I stand by what i said that Monk needs major reworking but i'm so tired of these self described know it alls, was hoping for a decent discussion but i see this is impossible..

Sounds like you just wanted a thread of people agreeing with your weak ideas and soothing your ego.

You claim MNK needs reworking because of positionals yet had nothing to say about the other melee Jobs that also have positionals. Should they have theirs removed too to be like MNK? Should every melee Job just be the same then? Why should MNK be the only Job that get its 'problem' removed but the other ones have to keep theirs? Is it because it's the only Job you play so you want the easy mode status given to it for your sake?

The reality is, your minor personal problems with MNK is not the same as, nor in line with, the wider problem with the Job (within the raiding meta; outside of that it's fine). You would most likely struggle just as much on DRG and/or NIN because the fundamentals of MNK are also found in those Jobs. MNK just has the easier time of it, in comparison.

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Originally Posted by Vorx

Well once again the elites ruin ANOTHER post.. To the people who were in here at the start thank you, we had some decent discussions but of course "these people" had to try and one up everything.
I stand by what i said that Monk needs major reworking but i'm so tired of these self described know it alls, was hoping for a decent discussion but i see this is impossible..

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The elites are the only ones who balance matters to, on the lowest level it won't matter, the ones that block monk from joining see, "oh all the elites avoid monk therefore it must be bad"(Which is quite funny because unless it's speed running or prog we don't care about comp). It's not like the mid tier and lower thinks for themselves when it comes to this. Also just an fyi I'm one of the people who has done the most theorycrafting on monk and made tools for it to help with testing stuff out.

A decent discussion won't work when the only thing you do is say this lowers half my DPS without any numbers to support this. Here's some grade school math for true strike: 150/190 = 79% or a 21% damage loss from missing a positional. So even if you were missing every single positional you would still only lose out on 21%. It was the same with the ranged attacks. In the whole of the current tier there is ONE case where you would use a ranged attack, that's one time in over 20 minutes of encounter time. A proper discussion requires you to provide enoung facts to support it.

I wouldn't support any of these changed, removing positionals removes the flavor of the job and adding a ranged attack is simply just a waste of dev time. Reason why I'm not trying to come up with any new ideas is because of the new jobs coming in. If we say that the current skill setup stays the same and the only addition is the new classes. If RDM were to have piercing and some other utility, you would then have monk instead of dragoon as their personal DPS would be higher than the DRG dps + battle litany.

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Originally Posted by Krindor

The elites are the only ones who balance matters to, on the lowest level it won't matter

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It is not only the lowest lvl, it is more like 95% or even higher number... For all these people a real good monk will contribute as much raid dps as any other "just ok played" class with raidbuffs.

Most important factor for raid dps is "individual player skill" and not your "group comp". Once you can play the job perfectly adjusted for every fight, you can start thinking about your group comp.

But who is gonna admit that they cant play their classes to the max. ? If you don't have healer and tanks in dps stances almost all time, you wont kill anything much faster anyway.