Revelations from Fan Festival 2016 Tokyo

I generally agree and part of me holding my judgement is how much the rest of the expansions allows the game to imprint its own identity. For me its integrating the ideas seamlessly into the existing world which is most important. FF games always reference other FF games. Its bound to happen. As long as its a good story and fits I generally don't mind too much.

I never played FF 3. When I did the CT originally I had no idea it was a reference. I just thought it was an awesome story that introduced an ancient civilisation to the world. As a result I really didn't mind when I discovered it was. It fit in seamlessly to the world and it was epic. If they can do the same with Return to Ivalice I will probably be fine with it. My biggest fear would be if we had a 'you go through a magical portal to another world and that world is Ivalice!' scenario. That would really put me off the content.

I didn't have the same issues with Shadow of Mhach. I don't think that FF has mined Celtic mythology quite like this before to provide inspiration for its story. I also wouldn't necessarily call sky pirates a call back since they are a pretty common fantasy concept.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

While I do agree that "Return to Ivalice" is more likely than not just another giant shout-out, I can't help but feel like there's enough Ivalice references already. I've never played any of the games in the setting (except about half of XII, which apparently only got good after the point I quit because I hate being more or less forced to do sidequests to advance the main story) so I don't get the obsession with it or the vast majority of the references.

That's the drawback of relying on nostalgia.

If Lolorito decided to rename the East Aldenard Trading Company "Shinra, Inc." I'd have the same problem. Not because I don't get the reference, but because this isn't VII, no matter how much I enjoyed that game, and I'd like to see XIV stand on its own two feet instead of constantly relying on nostalgia. Even Shadow of Mhach, despite being an exploration of a dead Eorzean culture, still does that with sky pirates (XII) and Cait Sith (VII/XI).

The fact the game already has myriad Ivalice shout-outs, and now we're being given a raid series titled "Return to Ivalice," has me worried. If you take away the knowledge and love of Ivalice and look at it objectively, it should be pretty understandable why.

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I can appreciate the concern you guys have about FFXIV not having its own identity, but I tend to think that the developers aren't just playing on the nostalgia card here. You have to imagine there are players out there, a lot of them even, who haven't played a single other Final Fantasy game in their lifetime, or haven't played them all. So for those people, they don't think of Crystal Tower and FFIII. They think, "Huh... Allagans were pretty OP to make all this." For these players, the introduction of Sky Pirates in Heavensward isn't a throwback to FFXII, but a natural evolution and progression of an age-old profession as the world collectively moves forward into a new medium of travel.

I'm all in favor of FFXIV's original content being given more spotlight in the grand scheme of things, but from that perspective, raids AREN'T in the grand scheme of things. Yes, they're end-game content a lot of players are driven to complete, but they tend to never have any impact on the MSQ. It could certainly be an opportunity to expand what we know of Eorzea, like with Mhach, but in the end, it still doesn't hold much to the MSQ.

FFIII can get a raid but FFXII cannot?

Yeah this whole "problem" is just one person's hatred about anything related to FFXII.
End of story.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

For these players, the introduction of Sky Pirates in Heavensward isn't a throwback to FFXII, but a natural evolution and progression of an age-old profession as the world collectively moves forward into a new medium of travel.

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Exactly this, Heavensward already dealt a lot with flying and airships so sky pirates are less of a reference and more of a natural evolution once airships become more common and people outside the military (and comercially-exclusive boat rides) are getting them. Other than the term "sky pirate" there really isn't much of a connection to XII.

I have never touched another Final Fantasy game ever. I know that ivalice is a world from another game, and i'd be fine with an ingame location called ivalice. However calling the raid "Return" bothers me. I have never been to ivalice. I dont know what it is. Im not returning to anything.

Crystal tower was blended smoothly iwth the existing lore, i had no idea it wasnt original to FFxiv. Most references are so good at fitting within the lore i cant tell the difference.

Yes the game is built on fanservice, i realise that. ffxi was however its own game. Not a mashup of the past. Unless they make a another clever way of incoorperating a return i am going to be sorely dissapointed. They sold the Shadows of Mhach series as original ffxiv exclusive content. I had hoped that was an indicator of future directions

Well, lets analyze, 'Return,' for a moment. Where have we been that we could 'Return,' to that could be/have been Ivalice? Perhaps the home world of the Warriors of Darkness? Minfilia is attempting to save it from being erased by a flood of Light, perhaps she calls on us to aid her? Perhaps its the void, one of the consumed worlds, and we go back to the Void to stop an impending invasion of Eorzea like the Cloud of Darkness was preparing for at the end of the Crystal Tower?

Ivalice could also just be an area like thanalan, just with the garleans ruling it. We might go with cid to said area and figure out that he's from the area, thereby helping cid (or a new character) return to ivalice. I just dearly hope they will shy away from too many portals, time and wormhole themes. Omega seems to cover that.

for all we know ivalice could be an island off the coast of ala mhigo, perhaps lying under text in the right corner of the ironheart map. This would also help enforcing the sea based theme SB seems to aim for. I am cool with names as references, but porting it directly without context or creating a wormhole to actual ivalice would be weird imo.


I also have an idea as to how RDM would be included in the game. We know hoary buolder has been to thavnair and he returned wearing one sword and undisclosed magic skills. Perhaps a Thavnairian person would set up shop in Limsa, teaching the ways of RDM to adventurers. I dont expect the actual reason for the teacher to be there is interesting, as RDM appears to be unlockable the second you hit lvl 50. A guy just appearing would make sense as it is a crossroads of maritime travel and has routes to Radz at han as proven by the Starlight event. even the stylish clothin fits as the boy from the anima questline is from thavnair and wears a similar coat'ish thing. very similar to ishgardian clothing to be honest.

Ivalice is one of the better and more interesting Final Fantasy settings as far as I'm concerned. Even to this very day Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy XII and Final Fantasy Tactics are amongst my favourite games ever - and it's not simply due to nostalgia, either - they simply hit all the right notes for me in terms of world building and varied character morality. If we get even a sliver of that in FFXIV I will be exceptionally happy.

I agree with Vexander, my BF has only ever played crisis core and no other FF's and to him all the stuff he sees in XIV is brand new.

While myself and some of my fc mates all go on and on about where stuff came from (like the brina boss, CT, etc) he always has no clue lol.

I'm not worried about XIV and it's own identity. It has plenty as is...and I can't wait to see the ivalice things :) would love to see armor rewards from the new alliance raid that is from there :^)

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Originally Posted by Enur

I also have an idea as to how RDM would be included in the game. We know hoary buolder has been to thavnair and he returned wearing one sword and undisclosed magic skills. Perhaps a Thavnairian person would set up shop in Limsa, teaching the ways of RDM to adventurers. I dont expect the actual reason for the teacher to be there is interesting, as RDM appears to be unlockable the second you hit lvl 50. A guy just appearing would make sense as it is a crossroads of maritime travel and has routes to Radz at han as proven by the Starlight event. even the stylish clothin fits as the boy from the anima questline is from thavnair and wears a similar coat'ish thing. very similar to ishgardian clothing to be honest.

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I always took Hoary Boulder's dialogue to suggest he learned how to be a Blue Mage there. He says something to the effect of learning how to use the souls of his enemies in combat. Sounds like Blue Mage to me.

Further discussions with various groups makes me think its from Sharlayan. Passing over Alisae's very Red-Mage-Like combat in 3.4, there's also the fact that a staple Red Mage spell has been Haste, a spell warping time around the caster or target. Sharlayan is the only nation we know of with access to that kind of magic in any meaningful form. Slow does exist outside of it, but less as a spell and more as a status effect, it feels like.