And yes, by any logic possible in FFXIV, if you go by cure III spam even when your full team is full life and everyone hugs you, no healer can possibly beats whm until he drops his mp.
That way you can heal for like 20s and die.
But still highest heal output.
WHM stoneskin II and virus
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10-21-2016, 12:03 AMDocteur_Fluttershy
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10-21-2016, 12:05 AMExiled_TonberryWhat identity? It seriously lacking in that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meow9000
It can heal a little more than the other healer...is that it's identity?
That's pretty sad. -
10-21-2016, 12:22 AMDocteur_Fluttershy
WHM identity before the 3.0 was his overwhelming AoE healing potency, because back then the sch didnt have indom.
Now, sch can withstand heavy AoE with either a spreaded aldo and/or indom.
Add to that a Diurnal AST that has a really better mp management, spells that cost less mana, and the card system that is now pretty good.
Whm's healing advantage comes only from cure III and benediction,two skills that are either extremely situational, and a bit from assize (but it is mostly used for mp management and has a long cooldown).
You can also bring asylum, if you manage to ask your whole party to stay in the same spot for its full duration, else i wont consider it worthy of being brought in front of the CO that gives the full duration regen on entering the field, with an additional possibility of reducing damage.
Every other spell either has his twin (with some little differences) in diurnal AST or in other healer toolkits. (i may be wrong but i dont think i missed any spell)
But...
WHM has ONE THING UNIQUE...
a thing he is the ONLY HEALER POSSESSING IT...
WHM HAS...
serenity.
a sleep that can never be used in any raid or primal ever.
Dont take me wrong, i love whm and i play it in raid, but that doesnt mean i cant state the facts.
It's not that WHM isnt good, it's just at the moment, AST and SCH have a healing kit capable of healing like main healers, while also bringing the full utility of a secondary healer, where WHM only has the healing kit.
You can also bring the dps side, where WHM burst is the best, but is heavily hindered by the fact that his mp management is the lowest of the three, and that he has no spells that doenst have initial damage (so no spells that are sure to hit). -
10-21-2016, 12:39 AMKathranis
Potency 30s base. Single Target.
SCH:
Aetherflow: 3 stacks
Physick x10: 3000 (2.50s CD)
Adloquium + Emergency Tactics: 600 (~2.50 CD)
Lustrate x2: 1200 (2.0)
Embrace x10: 3000 (3.0)
Illumation x7 ticks: 700
Total: 7,800
AST Diurnal Sect:
Benefic IIx10: 6500 (2.50CD)
ED: 1000 (40s)
Aspected Benefic: 190 (2.5)
-Regen x7: 980
Aspected Helios: 200 (2.5)
-Regen x10: 400
Total: 9,270
WHM:
Cure x9: 6500 (2.5)
Medica II: 200 (2.5)
-Regen x10: 500
Regen x7: 1050
Asylum x8 ticks: 800
Assize: 300
Tetragrammaton: 700
Total: 9,400
Ok,so I gave WHM about 4s to cast all the instants to give it a fair number and I used both single and aoe regen for both AST and WHM since I was using it as a mindset to keep one player alive and I would use all the regen to help it out. I also gave SCH like a second longer than the other two to get Emergency tactics cast. This also doesn't figure in Benediction. -
10-21-2016, 12:40 AMRawrz
Yeah this would be messy to calculate. Tried doing it for a second, but its just sooo much and sooo much overheal.
WHM Hypothesis:Having access to an 845 potency Cure II, is probably what made WHM out as the high healing output healer. Couple that with 910 Medica II and 1365 Regen and numbers start to look scary big. Cure III is what makes WHM shine.
AST Hypothesis: *Spoiler I'm kinda wrong here, but it could be argued that I'm right*After all the buffs to AST though I'm going to say they get the cake with single target healing. Disable, Collective, Synastry, Lightspeed, and a crit proc on Ben II, not to mention the wild Bole just gives AST a much better time. I hit 30k in one heal from messing around with a war + conva + mantra with Synastry on my AST. lol Thats a Bene every Crit.
SCH Hypothesis: *Spoiler I'm wrong here* Throwing SCH into Single target, we are great at burst. Probably the best of all the healers. 200 potency from Selene (or Eos at 240 using Fey Illumination for arguments sake.) Up to 3 Lustrates at 600 potency each, and 300 (360) potency precasted shield + 600 (720) from ET. Once we run out of Aetherflow though, we have to resort to eating our fairy, lowering our healing in the long run since some of the Lustrate will probably be overheal anyways.
Best Sustained AOE Healing
1.WHM Higher potency Spammable AOE Regen. Access to an OGCD heal. Access to a 300 potency heal or 550 potency burst heal. Sometimes Virus.
2.AST High potency spammable AOE Regen. Access to a 300 potency heal. OGCD Regen/10% damage reduction (if able). Disable.
3.SCH 300 potency non spammable shield (Only works in constant damage AOE, not to top off.) 400 Potency OGCD Heal. 300 potency heal locked behind a CD (ET). Most of the time Virus. Non-spammable Lowest Potency Regen, locked behind a summon. 10% damage reduction from sacred soil.
Best Burst AOE Healing (2 Active GCDS with healing buffs)
1. WHM (715 Cure III + 715 Cure III + 300 Assize) [Divine Seal]
2. SCH (180 Precast + 360 Succor + 360 ET succor + 400 Indom) Along with 10% reduction from Sacred Soil [Fey Illumination could be more with Dissipation.]
3. AST (360Helios + 360Helios Along with 10% reduction from Collective Unconcious (If it would even be possible to use it in this scenario) You could argue that with lightspeed and diurnal, AST could get in a third Helios. making it 360 + 360 + 360. Don't really wanna do the math for noct e.e.)
Best Burst Healing 2 GCDS
1. WHM (Stoneskin, 845 Cure II, 700 Tetragramton, 845 Cure II, Benediction (~1950-2600 assuming that a tank is between 24-30k non-defiance-war and you are i250ish) Virus some of the time. [Diivine Seal, not including Assize.]
2. AST (Stoneskin, Essential Dignity 400->1000, 1092 Ben II, 1092 Ben II, possible a third 1092 Ben II [Lightspeed + Synastry] Disable always.
3. SCH (360 shield + Stoneskin, 720 Adlo, Lustrate 600, 720 ET adlo, 600 lustrate, 240 Embrace) [Fey Illumation] Virus most of the time. Sacred Soil if desperate.
God damn every healer has stupid high burst. xD Really thought SCH would be higher.
This cut into my nap time. :C So Im not even attempting sustained single target.
ON PAPER, at least, WHM does the best. In actual gameplay, there is such a thing as a limit to necessary healing. The worst healer is the cutoff point for healing necessary, so anything beyond that isnt ideal, until you can break beyond and solo heal. Its all about that DPS and WHM doesn't have the MP management to handle it as well as the other two. -
10-21-2016, 12:58 AMGhishlain*Saves Sir Rawrz trouble for AST and WHM*Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawrz
I did this analysis a LONG time ago (I'd say close to around 3.1) so take with a grain of salt, nor has there been any super thorough fact checking behind it from a third party source. Benediction numbers will be different from person to person and probably be much higher now due to VIT being a thing versus STR tanks back then.
And of course final healing requirement will be different from fight to fight too.
Total potency in "normal" circumstances, will need changes due to the Crit change to Benefic II
Total potency if you're throwing everything and the kitchen sink and assuming unlimited MP pool
Again, take with a grain of salt though it might help someone out.
*Stays out of the opinion game*
Also, I will find you, and I will pet you, Sir Rawrz. You were AFK at the SSS NPC a few days ago so I ninja pet'd. I want your SCH DPS, lol.
[EDIT] Quick look at potency / minute comparing WHM, SCH, D.AST, and N.AST during 3.07 as well.
I haven't done a lot of hard theorycrafting in a while.. -
10-21-2016, 01:05 AMDocteur_Fluttershy
i still dont agree with you on sch solo target heal.
It may be arguable between AST and SCh for solo healing ability, but WHM is last in this.
a WHM solo target max output for 30s, without counting overheal:
divine seal for +30%
assize+tetra+asylum for 1800
medica II => 700 (last until the end)
regen => 1365 (last until there is 6s remaining, since 30s timer lets not refresh)
cure II => 845*8
total : 10625
sch:
fairy bonus heal => 20%
fairy regen => cant remember, will edit later
instant 3 lustrate + sacrificing fairy for another +20% healing
remember boost multiplies, so we have 1.2*1.2 boost => 44% boost heal
=>1800
3 more lustrate => 1800
1 adlo + ET => 864 (if crit => 1944)
next depends if you consider the shields or not:
with shields :
9 other adlo => 864 (if crit => 1944)
for a total of a variation between 12240 to 23000
if you dont count shields :
9*576
total of 9648
The main fact of why SCh is king of solo heal, is he can just plainly spam 6 lustrate instantly, on separate targets.
I'm off for a bit, will look into answers later. -
10-21-2016, 01:07 AMKathranis
[QUOTE=Kathranis;3903194]Potency 30s base. Single Target.
I used both single and aoe regen for both AST and WHM since I was using it as a mindset to keep one player alive and I would use all the regen to help it out./QUOTE]
Potency 30s base. Group
SCH
Aetherflow: 3 stacks
Succor x12: 3600 (2.5)
Indom: 400
Illumation x 7: 700
Total: 4,700
AST:
Helios x11: 3300 (2.5)
Aspected Helios: 200 (2.5)
-Regen x10: 400
Total: 3,900
WHM:
Medica II: 200(2.5)
-Regen x10: 500
Asylum x8: 800
Assize: 300
Medica x10: 3000 (2.5)
Total: 4,800
I didn't include Cure III to give a better idea + the aoe is short in comparison. Funny thing with single target, it is just easier to ignore the added aoe+regen and just use Benefic II/Cure II lol. These are just base numbers, without crits numbers and I hope this proves the potential healing output looking at base idea. Like Ghishlain said, it does compare to fight to fight + player to player, but overall <shrugs> -
10-21-2016, 01:18 AMRawrzWhy did you show me this. D: Lolz jk I already looked over it once for aspected shields and dps back then. ;D But i never really looked into the healing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghishlain
Also, I'm gonna start summoning my fat cat to defend me from further molestations. He trained in the art of Belly rubs distraction. Can't wait until relic 3.45 comes out so I can gauge my DPS again. >_< -
10-21-2016, 01:20 AMKathranisI'm a bit rusty on SCH(which is sad b/c I main it in 3.0-3.1 . I'll admit I screw up on the numbers there, and I was using the base potency without buffs for quick numbers. I also didn't figure in quick recasts of regen/aspected benefic since it would only just raise the numbers and not really change the difference from WHM/AST. I'll admit it is the king of solo heal since high heal+ shields, but i was just pointing out the healing output not dmg migration. Though, might as well add presence of mind which takes about .50s from them. So the WHM total should be about 11,600ish if not a bit moreQuote:
Originally Posted by Docteur_Fluttershy
Though added SCH shield, it only overwrites the old shield when you heal higher than current shield hp, so unless assuming target is taking hard enough attack to reduce it enough(which I assume you/we were so no hate here O-o. I enjoy this conversation lol), the heal could be from 300-600 so it is a variable number