So we don't have enough devs

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

It's odd. I haven't seen any other online game get as many updates and as many events/items inbetween as this one. Is there really a lack of devs? Or is it just that people have been too spoiled with all the updates and feel that nothing is ever enough?

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Yoshi has said in interviews that another two devs would mean improved raids. Here that's being taken as "Square need more money for more devs", but in reality, Yoshi has also indicated the the issue isn't money - it's finding two devs with the right skillset (including fluent Japanese).

Honestly this game has a truly fantastic content cycle when compared to any other mmo out on the market today. Can things be improved? Sure why not? There's always room for improvement. Is there a massive issue with content or a lack of development? Absolutely not in my opinion. Anything more than they're already doing is a bonus.

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Originally Posted by Faeon

It never will never be enough, as people will always want more regardless.

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Main reason why I left back when leviathan was new, and recently came back to see if the game changed a bit, plus my irl friend plays the game. It has the EXCACT same formula, the excact same mechanics almost, stack, spread, tank swap 3 stacks. It's the fact the content has new skin over brand new content. That's the main reason many complain as well.
4 raid bosses every 6 months?

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Originally Posted by Zafrei

Honestly this game has a truly fantastic content cycle when compared to any other mmo out on the market today.

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Hope you don't mind my using your quoted post as a springboard...


FFXIV definitely has a different content release model than other MMOs, but I think it's difficult to say whether it actually releases more content per expansion cycle overall. To illustrate my point, I'll compare the complete set of Heavensward content (i.e., patches 3.0-expected 3.55) to an expansion from another game, Everquest II.

Now, EQ2 is late in its lifespan--it was originally released in 2004, after all--so its more recent expansions are fairly modest in scope; as a result, I'm going to use one of the earlier ones that I'm most familiar with, Echoes of Faydwer. The specific names of things probably won't mean anything to people who haven't played, but hopefully the categorizations will still be meaningful.

First, however, the Heavensward content; note that I'm counting every version of a particular piece of content as a new item (e.g., normal vs. EX primals), even though there would be a fair amount of asset reuse involved in developing them:

• 6 overland zones (Western Highlands, Sea of Clouds, Forelands, Churning Mists, Hinterlands, and Azys Lla)
• 1 city (Ishgard)
• 1 race (Au Ra)
• Level cap increase to 60
• 1 shared dungeon* (using the term very loosely) in the form of Diadem
• 18 instanced dungeons (Dusk Vigil, Sohm Ahl, Aery, Vault, Gubal Library, ARF, Neverreap, Fractal, Arboretum, Pharos HM, Antitower, Amdapor HM, Sohr Khai, Hullbreaker HM, Xelphatol, Gubal HM, and two TBD in 3.5)
• 14 or 15 trials (normal and EX of Ravana, Bismark, Thordan, Nidhogg, and the three Warring Triad members; possibly one more TBD story trial, based on the 2.x patch cycle)
• 9 raids** (Void Ark, Weeping City, and one more TBD in 3.5; normal and savage of Gordias, Midas, Creator)
• 1 randomly generated dungeon (PotD)
• 1 main continuing story quest line spanning the expansion and all patches
• 4 side quest lines spanning multiple zones/patches (Scholasticate, Hildibrand, Warring Triad, Anima Relic)
• Multiple smaller side quest lines (50-60 class quests for all classes/jobs, beast tribes, dungeon and raid quests)
• 3 jobs (DRK, MCH, AST) each with its own 30-60 quest line
• 3 minigames (LoV, Grand Company platoons, Wondrous Tails)
• New equipment from dungeons, raids, trials, crafted, scrips, etc.

Now let's take a look at Echoes of Faydwer (EoF):

• 6 overland zones (Greater Faydark, Butcherblock Mountains, Steamfont, Lesser Faydark, Loping Plains, Darklight Woods)
• 1 or 2 cities (Neriak, arguably Kelethin, though the latter is part of Greater Faydark)
• 2 races (Fae, Arasai)
• Alternate Advancement (AA) point cap increase, but no level cap increase
• 6 shared dungeons* (Crushbone, Kaladim, Klak'anon, New Tunaria, Mistmoore Catacombs, Castle Mistmoore)
• 9 instanced dungeons (Grender's Lair, D'Vinnian Throne, Mines of Meldrath, Court of Innovation, Acadechism, Obelisk of Blight, Crypt of Valdoon, Estate of Unrest***, Shard of Fear)
• 1 reworked instanced dungeon (Deathfist Citadel)
• 11 trials**** (Contested Mayong, Pumpkin-Headed Horseman, Avatars of most of the worshippable gods: Growth, Fear, Below, Flame, Hate, Mischief, Tranquility, Valor, War)
• 5 raids (Clockwork Menace, Freethinker Hideout, Mistmoore Inner Sanctum, Emerald Halls, Throne of New Tunaria)
• 7 "main" quest lines (one for each of the new zones, and one capstone quest line that spans all of the zones--note that each zone timeline is about equivalent to a corresponding zone's worth of the FFXIV main story quest and side quests)
• 6 side quest lines spanning multiple zones, along with 6 other multi-part single quests, all of which are quite difficult for their levels and reward special items
• Multiple--but fewer than FFXIV--smaller side quest lines (deity quests, dungeon and raid quests)
• 2 new tradeskills (tinkering and transmuting) and several new character advancement systems (deities, new AA lines), but no new combat classes
• New equipment from dungeons, raids, crafted, etc.

Now, some of these points obviously aren't exactly comparable. FFXIV quests--especially the "special" ones such as job quests and high-importance story quests--typically have voice acting, elaborate cutscenes, and other things that the EQ2 quests don't, so I think it's fair to say that they stand out more overall and represent a much greater level of effort on the designers' parts. Similarly, FFXIV has released fewer equipment items, but individually they're much higher quality and the art for them certainly take quite a bit longer to make. On the other hand, Estate of Unrest by itself contains more gameplay than every single dungeon released in 3.1 to 3.3, combined, and there aren't directly analogous comparisons between the games for some things like PotD or EQ2's shared dungeons.

From a time scale perspective, almost exactly one year elapsed between EoF's release and the next EQ2 expansion, Rise of Kunark--which, in FFXIV terms, would cover patches 3.0 through 3.3. Most of the content above came out in the expansion itself, but some--primarily Darklight Woods, Unrest, Shard of Fear, a few of the Avatars, and the main capstone quest line--was released in subsequent patches that year.

My intent with this post is not to say that EQ2 is amazing and FFXIV isn't--there are a number of reasons I play FFXIV now, rather than EQ2--but just to try to illustrate that the amount of content in the Heavensward expansion cycle is pretty equivalent to what at least one other MMO used to offer. The focus is certainly different (much more story-oriented in FFXIV, as opposed to zone exploration and dungeon-crawling), but in terms of things to do, both games' expansions provided large amounts of new content; it's just that EQ2 (and most other MMOs) tended to front-load more of its content, while FFXIV has more frequent patches with less content per individual patch. Both are fun in their own ways, really.



* Shared dungeons are what they sound like--dungeon instances that any number of people in separate groups/solo can all be in at the same time, usually with a set of quests unique to the zone. In EQ2, they're much larger and more complex than regular dungeons, almost as much so as overland zones in some cases. I'm classifying Diadem as a shared dungeon for FFXIV, though it doesn't really measure up to most of the EQ2 ones in terms of complexity; see New Tunaria or the various--all three making up one zone--Mistmoore Castle maps Basement, Main Floor, and Upper Floor (zone names are links, btw...).

** I'm grouping all of the various Alex instances for each patch (Fist/Cuff/Arm/Burden) into a single raid, since otherwise it's difficult to equate them to either the FFXIV 24 person raids or the EQ2 raids.

*** Estate of Unrest could probably count as its own separate category (story dungeon) due to its length and complexity, but I'll include it here. See Estate of Unrest Walkthrough Link for a walkthrough of the zone if you're curious about what Unrest was/is like.

**** Note that these aren't instanced fights in EQ2, but they are single-mob raid encounters. Unlike FFXIV, most of them tend to be among the hardest raid fights in a given expansion. I might be a little off on the count, since I don't remember for sure when each of the avatars was released, and it's difficult to find information since avatars have been reworked a few times in subsequent expansion cycles.

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Originally Posted by Remus

From what I remember from a Interview Yoshi-p didn't say they don't have the funds to hire someone. The problem was that they need 2 skilled developers who can speak japanese to do battle content and it seems finding 2 skilled developers have proven difficult. They don't want to train someone from the ground up because that could impact the schedule for releasing content..

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I don't get why that's so hard to find, You would think they would poke around on Nexus mods, or any other gaming mods and development sites. They got people absurdly well at creating content, fluff/vanity, and world content for numerous games. Hire them to create outfits/glamour's and vanity, so your full team can focus on combat programming.

That or you think if they wanted to actually pony up on releasing more combat programming, they would just find 2 highly skilled developers and an interpreter. Make it a Intern job, I know a lot of Japanese majors on our college campus who would jump on that job in a heartbeat. for little or no pay.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

It's odd. I haven't seen any other online game get as many updates and as many events/items inbetween as this one.

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There's a reason for that. FFXIV is a classic case of "treating the disease, but not curing it"

If it weren't for those frequent updates the game would become unhealthy, fast. Patch "treatments" to various aspects of FFXIV buy the game a little more time each time they happen. Many of the game's core systems need updates, but since the devs can only do so much - usually by adding new content - these systems remain untouched for long stretches of time. The problem is...the new content expires quickly, thus adding to the pile of systems that need updates. ( Diadem, Aquapolis, PotD, Housing, PvP, FATEs, Gold Saucer, etc )

If they could figure out a way to break this cycle the game would be in a much better place both now and in the future. Whether this means more devs or a different production pipeline, things could definitely stand to change.

What I saw from Yoshi-P's comment is that they are not only looking for more manpower, but also looking for actual skilled developers to take on the heavier tasks requested by the community.

When FFXV is done, SE definitely needs to give some of them back to the FFXIV team. We know that won't happen with KH3 and FF7 remake coming up, but if FFXIV is pretty much SE's savior from their financial troubles at the time, I would think to make sure the development team there is plentiful and happy. Then again, what do I know about business?