Dark knight

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Originally Posted by Mattelot

I see 4% of those people being DRK. Does this help the statement that the difference between the 2 is small?

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http://www.fflogs.com/statistics/10/#class=Tanks - here, I clicked two things for you and got here, maybe this will illustrate it better.

These numbers are skewed by the fact that DRK is MTing most of the time and WAR is OTing most of the time, meaning the DRK has to use Grit a bit more depending on the fight. If they were both just full DPS mode the numbers would be even closer.

Or here, there's this: ffxiv.2digitalgames.de

DRK is expected to do 972.44 DPS to clear Nidhogg Ex dummy.
WAR is expected to do 1044.44 DPS to clear Nidhoog Ex dummy.

DRK doesn't have its own slashing debuff. 3 of DRK's regular skills used in its DPS rotation do not apply slashing damage - Low Blow, Dark Passenger, and Salted Earth. Collectively these account for roughly 10% of DRK's total DPS. You can find this information on the site Violette linked if you look hard enough.

Anyway, long story short, remove this 10% (97.24) from that 972.44 and you get 875.20. Multiply that by 1.1 from the slashing debuff and you get 962.72. Add back the 97.24 we removed because it wouldn't benefit from the 1.1 slashing debuff and you get 1059.96.

The numbers are rough but they illustrate the point and that is that if you give DRK a slashing debuff they basically have the potential to match WAR DPS. When the gap is that small that a simple resistance debuff will make up the difference, you don't need a passive 30% boost all the time.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

I find asking for proof of readily available information obnoxious, antagonistic, and entitled. All you have to do is work with the numbers the game gives you, and numbers you can find on fflogs.

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So if I go into my game, there will be all the information you stated? That readily available? Or are you saying there are steps you need to take to find the "readily available" information? You believe that someone asking for proof of someone else's claims to be obnoxious. That's your problem. You find it to be antagonistic? How is wanting to know if you're being given good information hostile? You find it to be entitled. You can choose not to answer. It's about not being naive.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

Only a select few people are mathematically proficient enough to provide you with a 100% accurate answer, and a smaller percentage of those people have time to stop and type it all out. Conversely you can try and do your own math, and then ask others to check it. I.E. the math in my previous post is likely mostly accurate but admittedly does not take everything into account, but it is there for others to see and check and I ceded that it was probably off by some margin, and that it was "napkin" math. I don't want to spend hours of my day trying to find the thread that documented how much of a % increase Blood Weapon or Sword Oath is just because you demand it, so I'm quoting numbers from memory which, even if slightly off, still illustrate the point, which is that DRK's DPS is good and doesn't need the fix that this post suggests.

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Can you please provide me with a link to the post where information was demanded? I would greatly appreciate it.

Also, you have still not answered many of my questions. What triggers doing it yourself? Who generally accepts the information. Where is it documented? Who authored this document and when was it's last revision?

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Originally Posted by Mattelot

snip

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You have tooltips in the game. Those tooltips have numbers. With numbers math can happen. See the post I have above yours. I'm done now, its clear that you're just being difficult. The information is out there and I've actually given you a great deal of information myself, so I'm gonna leave it at that.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

[S]
http://www.fflogs.com/statistics/10/#class=Tanks - here, I clicked two things for you and got here, maybe this will illustrate it better. *snip*

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Thank you for this. What I'm curious is that on paper, I will agree that it looks like they're close however, there is still the 24:1 ratio on the leaderboards.

If you feel that a 30% boost is too much, do you feel there is no need for change?

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

You have tooltips in the game. Those tooltips have numbers. With numbers math can happen. See the post I have above yours. I'm done now, its clear that you're just being difficult. The information is out there and I've actually given you a great deal of information myself, so I'm gonna leave it at that.

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Tooltips are not good indicators all the time. I learned this very quick when I started playing.

You've still not answered the same questions I've asked over and over.

I'm not being difficult. I'm just not naive. I don't take what random people say as gospel, especially if I want to know WHY something works. You can tell me that a pufferfish can paralyze you. I can remember that but I would rather know how it paralyzes you. If I ask my teacher, they explain. They wouldn't tell me "go do the research yourself, google is available to everyone." They're the one who wants to get the point across.

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Originally Posted by Mattelot

Tooltips are not good indicators all the time. I learned this very quick when I started playing.

You've still not answered the same questions I've asked over and over.

I'm not being difficult. I'm just not naive. I don't take what random people say as gospel, especially if I want to know WHY something works. You can tell me that a pufferfish can paralyze you. I can remember that but I would rather know how it paralyzes you. If I ask my teacher, they explain. They wouldn't tell me "go do the research yourself, google is available to everyone." They're the one who wants to get the point across.

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ffxiv.2digitalgames.de

Like I said, DRK is not perfect, it could use a couple of minor tweaks here and there, but the community consensus is that there is zero wrong with its DPS potential.

If it had +30% damage all the time it would approach lower-end DPS numbers, then we'd be back at square one pre-3.2.

Where something is and where it can potentially be do not always equate.

This is the second game forum I've been on in the past week where somebody said that the consensus says something. The last forum, an actual poll was taken only to find out that the "consensus" was only a little over 30% while the opposition was over 50% with the remaining undecided.

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Originally Posted by Mattelot

Where something is and where it can potentially be do not always equate.

This is the second game forum I've been on in the past week where somebody said that the consensus says something. The last forum, an actual poll was taken only to find out that the "consensus" was only a little over 30% while the opposition was over 50% with the remaining undecided.

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ffxiv.2digitalgames.de stop ignoring this site. This site is cold hard numbers the game expects each job to do in a vacuum. A DRK with a slashing debuff can deal comparable DPS to a WAR. I don't see what further discussion is warranted.

I just don't understand why someone comes to the forums for information if they're just going to require everyone there to go fetch information elsewhere for them before they'll be satisfied. If the information we have in our heads isn't good enough and you just want us to link you stuff, why not just eliminate the middle man and google it yourself instead of impetuously calling into question everyone's credibility?

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

ffxiv.2digitalgames.de stop ignoring this site. This site is cold hard numbers the game expects each job to do in a vacuum. A DRK with a slashing debuff can deal comparable DPS to a WAR. I don't see what further discussion is warranted.

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I wasn't ignoring it. I wasn't sure if you were making a comment or...

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

I just don't understand why someone comes to the forums for information if they're just going to require everyone there to go fetch information elsewhere for them before they'll be satisfied. If the information we have in our heads isn't good enough and you just want us to link you stuff, why not just eliminate the middle man and google it yourself instead of impetuously calling into question everyone's credibility?

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Nobody is requiring anything, just asking. Again, you have the choice to reply. You make it sound like it's such an inconvenience as if it takes up a lot of your time however, you spent the time evading many questions by explaining why you feel you shouldn't have to answer them.

Geez, Mattelot. Syzzle may have spent some time explaining why she shouldn't have to answer your question... but she also answered your question. Seriously, just go look at the site she's been repeatedly linking.

Since you've yet to take the time to copy paste it into your address bar, it is a "DPS Calculator" that utilizes the Stone, Sky, Sea content in order to give classes the DPS expected to defeat a given dummy as well as the DPS they've done when they fail.

As this is a "document" that solely utilizes information obtainable through the game we can say that the author is Square Enix, the information is documented at that site, and the last revision is the end of the latest maintenance. The maintainer of the site itself is appearing to be anonymous but the source of the information is sound enough for that to be of minor importance. Here's a few more details as to the information it provides.

Dummy HP: This information is pulled from the game itself by reading its memory. Since this act is against the Terms of Service, I cannot tell you how this can be done and I shouldn't tell you who is credited for pulling the numbers.

DPS: It's a rather simple calculation. Damage Done/Time Spent = DPS. If a computer gets division wrong then we have bigger things to worry about than "where's the proof". For the record, I am a programmer by trade and can confirm that the code for these calculations is sound.

There is no guesswork in the site. It is just cold, hard, factual data. If we cannot trust a site like that then why are we even doing any math at all?