Statue of the Unsung

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Last post from me, but I just went into Coil to grab a shot of Bahamut from a similar angle;
https://i.imgur.com/cUfG018.png

-Similar hand placement.
-Similar snout/eye placement.
-Primal Bahamut got bigger wings and put on some weight. That chest doesn't match any of the Celestial Dragons, so don't even bother.
-Though the artwork has the horns being more flake-y(?), you're sitting here telling me that the Allag mutilated him and that Tiamat said the Primal version was different, so whatever. 6 still has horns curving over his face while Bahamut has no such thing. Both 4 and Bahamut have horns with a similar placement.
-Back scales look pretty damn similar to me.

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...I can't even tell what I'm looking at. Where's the head?

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Originally Posted by Nalien

It's a pretty big difference...

6 has horns that curve over his face, Bahamuts do not do this in the slightest. It's the same shape only if you twist Bahamuts horns a full 90 degrees... Meanwhile we can't get a clear idea of 4s horns because the angle just isn't appropriate to judge them properly, but if we looked at Bahamut from the top down? I imagine his horns would look fairly similar...

Heck, it's not even the same horn shape... 6 has a much more pronounced curve in his horn than Bahamut... Crappy editting powers activate;
https://i.imgur.com/RifO9j2.png

Bahamuts horns are fairly flat and curve down and back along his head. 6 has horns that curve right over his face then go back fairly far away from his neck... They are extremely different...
Scribbling on this again;

https://i.imgur.com/DSR9wTO.png

4 matches Bahamuts wings, his hand, and possibly his horns, since 4s horns are going back along his head and then curving, the angle isn't great to tell exactly how, though.
6 doesn't match on horns, since Bahamuts don't curve over his face at all, and the hand seems wrong to me. Can't see his wings at all, so who knows.

Last post from me, but I just went into Coil to grab a shot of Bahamut from a similar angle;
https://i.imgur.com/cUfG018.png

-Similar hand placement.
-Similar snout/eye placement.
-Primal Bahamut got bigger wings and put on some weight. That chest doesn't match any of the Celestial Dragons, so don't even bother.
-Though the artwork has the horns being more flake-y(?), you're sitting here telling me that the Allag mutilated him and that Tiamat said the Primal version was different, so whatever. 6 still has horns curving over his face while Bahamut has no such thing. Both 4 and Bahamut have horns with a similar placement.
-Back scales look pretty damn similar to me.

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Thank you for all this evidence Nalien.
I really think that ( for now ) there is no more question about it. Bahamut is indeed Number 4 and it will stay like this unless Yoshie end telling us something diferent
If some poeple want to believe something different, then so be it. After all this, I dont think they will change of opinion.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I can imagine mutilating to remove a a couple horns, I can't imagine mutilating to change the shape and position..

They really aren't... Just look at this;
https://i.imgur.com/sLT65BG.png



The horn shape and position there is completely different from 6... I'm not sure what else I can say, we're just going to have to agree to disagree at this point... Bahamuts horns are not remotely close to as curvy as 6s and they certainly don't go anywhere near his face like 6s... At this point I'm likely to just completely disregard the minion because it's a minion... It doesn't even have claws on its hands, it is so far from a proper depiction that I really don't think it can be used here... Even the minions horns don't come remotely close to being in the same position as 6s, though... Both the Primal and the minion have horns that grow back, while 6 has horns that grew forward then curved back, that is a major difference and I'm not sure how I can make this any clearer...

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My logic:
- The shape of the horns shown on 6 and the variations of Bahamut are the same
- The face, eyes and colouring is the same
- Alterations to the shape of the body and generally less "dragonish" look to Primal Bahamut are down to it being a reincarnated version brought back by the Ascians.

Your logic:
- BUT THE HORN ISN'T IN THE SAME PLACE!!!
- 4 HAS THIS THING ON ITS WING HALF THE OTHER DRAGONS DO

If you're flat out denying what's in front of you, I can do nothing but recommend an optician. The minion is valid evidence because even if it's a super-deformed chibi version, it's still a depiction of Bahamut and retains its basic features. Its and 6's horns are the same no matter how you try to twist it, and at the very least they are far more similar than 4 and the minion's.

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Which means nothing... If you want to use that line of argument to explain away any differences between Bahamut and 6, you're aware I can do the exact same thing in relation to 4, right?

Again, the biggest issue here is the angle. We're viewing 4 from above and as such we cannot adequately judge his horns. We can clearly judge 6s horns though, and they curve over his face, completely unlike Bahamuts. Meanwhile what we can tell from 4s horns is that they go back along his head, like Bahamuts...

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I'm using Tiamat's words as an explanation for a bulkier body and set back horn placement. You're trying to use it to explain an entirely different dragon.

We can 4's judge horns, because its horns are on the side of its face. No in game depiction of Bahamut has this. Its horns are nothing like Bahamut's in placement or appearance.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

...I can't even tell what I'm looking at. Where's the head?

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The red dot is his eye.

FYI, acting like... that... Is a fast way to find yourself on my ignore list, I appreciate the humor in telling me to seek an optician immediately after a post in which you can't identify Bahamut, though.

Like I said though, I'm done here.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Thank you for all this evidence Nalien

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<Bows and leaves>

Who knows, maybe a community rep can pop by and clear this up, I'd like names on the remaining two as well...

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Still can't see where its head is.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I can do nothing but recommend an optician.

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Teehee

<Leaves>

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

My logic:
- The shape of the horns shown on 6 and the variations of Bahamut are the same
- The face, eyes and colouring is the same
- Alterations to the shape of the body and generally less "dragonish" look to Primal Bahamut are down to it being a reincarnated version brought back by the Ascians.

Your logic:
- BUT THE HORN ISN'T IN THE SAME PLACE!!!
- 4 HAS THIS THING ON ITS WING HALF THE OTHER DRAGONS DO

If you're flat out denying what's in front of you, I can do nothing but recommend an optician. The minion is valid evidence because even if it's a super-deformed chibi version, it's still a depiction of Bahamut and retains its basic features. Its and 6's horns are the same no matter how you try to twist it, and at the very least they are far more similar than 4 and the minion's.

I'm using Tiamat's words as an explanation for a bulkier body and set back horn placement. You're trying to use it to explain an entirely different dragon.

We can 4's judge horns, because its horns are on the side of its face. No in game depiction of Bahamut has this. Its horns are nothing like Bahamut's in placement or appearance.

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I dont like to get involved into people's discussion but with hole respect, you are the one on denial.
You cant just accept all the evidence that Nailen so glady take the bother to give us.
Since it seems your attidue has started to change due to this. There is no need to transform this debate into a toxic fight, you know?

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Originally Posted by PArcher

If you're going to keep going with the "but the horn shape/placement is different!" thing, look at 4's horns again.

They are furry, and the four horns go out to the side starting at his brow, then back and up.

Look at the Primal again...the two bump forward from the top of his head, then back, and are smooth.

How are they even remotely close?

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And how you know? Like Naile said have we seen well the top part of their wins on the game? How you know are feathers..you cannot be based on a drawing, we dont know how that could look on the game.
Honestly all the evidence taht Nailen put, is even more than enought so far.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Last post from me, but I just went into Coil to grab a shot of Bahamut from a similar angle;
https://i.imgur.com/cUfG018.png

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If you're going to keep going with the "but the horn shape/placement is different!" thing, look at 4's horns again.

They are furry, and the four horns go out to the side starting at his brow, then back and up.

Look at the Primal again...the two bump forward from the top of his head, then back, and are smooth.

How are they even remotely close?

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Originally Posted by Nalien

The red dot is his eye.

FYI, acting like... that... Is a fast way to find yourself on my ignore list, I appreciate the humor in telling me to seek an optician immediately after a post in which you can't identify Bahamut, though.

Like I said though, I'm done here.

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Still can't see where its head is.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

"All the evidence"

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What evidence?

The horns/ head are a total non-issue. They are not the same. Not even close.

Claws are a non-issue. The, ahem, "placement" on 6 has exactly the same proportions as 4, and the claws are practically identical.

Wings are a non-issue. The bone-like protrusion is visible on several of the dragons' wings, and we can't even see 6's to compare. 4's are fluffier, smaller and a different shape than Bahamut's; there's no bigger case for 4 than 6's invisible ones.

The only thing you've done so far is dismiss a valid similarity and then tried to prove me wrong with vague, insubstantial comparisons twisted to suit your own beliefs...

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Originally Posted by PArcher

If you're going to keep going with the "but the horn shape/placement is different!" thing, look at 4's horns again.

They are furry, and the four horns go out to the side starting at his brow, then back and up.

Look at the Primal again...the two bump forward from the top of his head, then back, and are smooth.

How are they even remotely close?

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And yet, there are similar differences with 6 and Bahamut. The neck, for starters. Colouring as well, if we're going to insist that matters. And, yes, the horns.

I think we're all just going to have to agree to disagree though. This is that damn dress all over again: one side just isn't seeing what the other is, and until we either get a better look at pre-Primal Bahamut or the two mystery dragons, the answer isn't going to be clear.