FOOD FOR THOUGHT: Will Red Mage be just like astrologian? A fusion between SMN & Blm.

I'm bored and I want to try making stuff up.

Class: Red Mage (DPS)
Primary Weapon: Rapier
Primary Stats: Dexterity and Piety
Armor type: Scouting (this type of gear may not have Piety, but the class itself has high base piety growth along with the rapiers always providing some)
Damage type: Slashing (for weaponskills), Magic (for abilities). (Thematically it'd make more sense for them to be Piercing, but there are enough Piercing classes.)
Cross class ablities: Bard and Rogue

Red Mage is a hybrid physical/magic class that primarily fights at melee range using melee-range physical weaponskills, but is also capable of using some ranged magical spells.

The main features of the class are the following:

- Red Mage shares some spells with White Mage and Black Mage, although slightly different. RDM's versions of them are all off-GCD and do not have casting time, but they also have much higher CDs in comparison and lower potency. RDM does not have access to any of the traits from WHM and BLM that would power up those spells either. The spells RDM has access to are: Cure, Stone, Aero, Fire, Blizzard, and Thunder. By default, they are all the base I version, though RDM gets an ability later on that temporarily turns them into the II versions.

- Like a typical melee class, Red Mage has combo-based weaponskills as well. But overall, they're support-ish much like Bard and Machinist are (though RDM support capabilities will be entirely different from what MCH and BRD have, and generally have more offensive applications). Their spells still run off of magic damage, but Red Mage has the ability to shift between two stances that either increase their INT or their MND stat to match their current DEX stat.

- They have the ability to use 'Dual Cast' at Lv. 30+, which allows them to use their off-GCD spells without them going on cooldown, as well as imbuing their next weaponskill with a bonus effect. Much of the class would actually be designed around the Dual Cast mechanic.

- The class may appear to be a jack of all trades, but their primary weakness is that they possess less burst damage than other DPS, lacking any unique direct self damage buffs. Their cross-classes only grant them Raging Strikes and Hawk's Eye in terms of damage buffs as well, which is less than what other melee DPS typically get. Another weakness they have is that they have to carefully manage both TP and MP, and do not have an easy way to immediately restore either of them to full in a short amount of time.

- The class also doesn't have that many weaponskills. Prepare to juggle tons of abilities/spells in between weaponskill usage.

Weaponskill, Ability, and Trait list (Lv. 1-30):
- Lv. 1: Quick Thrust (Weaponskill) - 130 potency melee weaponskill. 60 TP.
- Lv. 2: Swallowtail (Weaponskill) - 100 potency melee weaponskill. 150 if used after Quick Thrust. Uses 70 TP.
- Lv. 4: Stone I (Ability/Spell) - 110 potency earth-aspected magic spell. No cast time. Uses 4% of maximum MP. Inflicts Heavy for 20 seconds. 15 second cooldown.
- Lv. 6: Blizzard I (Ability/Spell) - 130 potency ice-aspected magic spell. No cast time. Uses 4% of maximum MP. 20 second cooldown.
- Lv. 8: Swarmstrike (Weaponskill) - 80 potency melee weaponskill. Inflicts a damage over time effect with 20 potency for the next 25 seconds. Uses 80 TP.
- Lv. 8: Enhanced Dexterity (Trait) - Increases Dexterity by 2.
- Lv. 10: Cure I (Ability/Spell) - Heals selected party member with 300 potency. No cast time. Uses 10% of maximum MP. 10 second cooldown.
- Lv. 12: Featherblow (Weaponskill) - 100 potency melee weaponskill. Inflicts Blind for 8 seconds. Uses 60 TP.
- Lv. 15: Looking to the White (Ability) - Stance-type ability. Upon activation, current Mind rating is increased to match Dexterity. Cooldown of 10 seconds. Shares recast timer with Looking to the Black, and cannot be used simultaneously with that ability.
- Lv. 16 Enhanced Swarmstrike (Trait): Swarmstrike damage over time potency is increased to 30.
- Lv. 18: Thunder I (Ability/Spell): 20 potency lightning-aspected magic spell. Inflicts damage over time with a potency of 20 over 18 seconds. No cast time. Uses 4% of maximum MP. Cooldown of 10 seconds.
- Lv. 20: Enhanced Dexterity II (Trait): Increases Dexterity by 4.
- Lv. 22: Nighthawk (Weaponskill): 100 potency ranged weaponskill. Costs 100 TP.
- Lv. 26: Frenetic Flurry (Weaponskill): 100 potency melee weaponskill, 260 if used after Swallowtail. Uses 70 TP.
- Lv. 28: Featherdance (Trait) - Upon having a Quick Thrust land, 50% chance that the following Swallowtail gains the ability to strike multiple enemies in a cone AoE. If used with a Dual Cast Aero effect, the skill will strike all enemies in line of sight between the user and the target.
- Lv. 30: Looking to the Black (Ability) - Stance-type ability. Upon activation, current Intellect rating is increased to match Dexterity. Cooldown of 10 seconds. Shares recast timer with Looking to the White, and cannot be used simultaneously with that ability.
- Lv. 30: Dual-Cast (Ability) - Allows the casting of the next spell without placing it on cooldown, as well as granting an additional effect to the next weaponskill depending on the spell used. 5 second cooldown.

Dual-Cast weaponskill effects:
- Stone: Enemies are stunned for the next 4 seconds.
- Blizzard: Enemies are heavied for the next 10 seconds. The RDM will also have their MP restored by 10%. MP restoration amount does not change with the number of enemies hit, but is affected by amount of hits against a single target through Multi-Strike.
- Cure: The RDM recovers 7% of their maximum HP. Amount of HP recovered does not change with the number of enemies hit, but is affected by amount of hits against a single target through Multi-Strike.
- Thunder: Enemies take damage over time with a potency of 40 for the next 12 seconds.
- Aero: Next weaponskill can be used at a 15-yalm range. Additionally restores TP by 100. Amount of TP restored does not change with the number of enemies hit, but is affected by amount of hits against a single target through Multi-Strike.
- Fire: Damage of next weaponskill is increased by 30%.

Weaponskill, Ability, and Trait list (Lv. 31-50):
- Lv. 32: Enhanced Dexterity III (Trait) - Increases Dexterity by 6.
- Lv. 34: Multi-Strike (Ability) - Next single-target weaponskill cast within 10 seconds of activation hits twice. 60 second cooldown.
- Lv. 35: Aero I (Ability/Spell) - 40 potency wind-aspected magic spell. Inflicts damage over time with a potency of 15 over 15 seconds. No cast time. Uses 4% of maximum MP. Cooldown of 15 seconds.
- Lv. 38: Checkmate (Weaponskill) - 120 potency melee weaponskill, 190 if used after Swallowtail. Target takes 5% more damage from slashing attacks for the next 30 seconds. Uses 80 TP.
- Lv. 40 Adapted Technique (Trait) - Swarmstrike and Featherblow can now also combo into Swallowtail. (Note that only Quick Thrust has a chance to activate the Swallowtail AoE effect.)
- Lv. 40: Fire I (Ability/Spell) - 130 potency fire-aspected magic spell. No cast time. Uses 7% of maximum MP. 15 second cooldown.
- Lv. 44 Enhanced Checkmate (Trait) - Slashing damage bonus from Checkmate is increased to 10%.
- Lv. 45: Manastrike (Weaponskill) - 150 potency melee weaponskill. If used after Swarmstrike, 30% of damage inflicted is returned as MP. Effect stacks with Dual-Cast Blizzard and Multi-Strike. Uses 60 TP.
- Lv. 48: Unrelenting Strikes (Trait) - Enhances Multi-Strike so that the next weaponskill cast within 10 seconds of activation hits three times.
- Lv. 50: Blitzkrieg (Weaponskill) - 140 potency weaponskill, 320 if used after Swallowtail. Only available if the target's max HP is higher than 60%. Uses 70 TP.
- Lv. 50: Storm of Spells (Ability) - Spells that are cast within the next 15 seconds have no MP cost. 180 second cooldown.

Weaponskill, Ability, and Trait list (Lv. 52-60):
- Lv. 52: Shield of Needles (Ability) - Erects a barrier around a targeted party member that reflects melee physical damage to the attacker. Maximum amount of damage reflected is equal to 500% of the caster's Mind rating. 90 second cooldown.
- Lv. 54: Piercethrough (Weaponskill) - 120 potency area of effect weaponskill (circular AoE around the user) that can only be used as a combo action after Quick Thrust, Swarm Strike, or Featherblow. Uses 130 TP.
- Lv. 56: Rapid Cast (Ability) - For the next 10 seconds, spell recast timers are sped up by 50%. Cooldown of 120 seconds.
- Lv. 58: Mastery of All (Ability) - Upgrades all spells to their II variants for the next 20 seconds. Potency and effects of all spells are the same as the respective WHM and BLM spells. MP costs however are increased by 30%. Cooldown of 180 seconds.
- Lv. 60: Unstoppable Flurry (Ability) - For the next 20 seconds, Blitzkreig's enemy HP restriction is removed. Cooldown of 180 seconds.

(Yes, I took a lot of weaponskill names from FFTA2's Fencer class, which was a pre-req for Red Mage in that game anyway. Don't pay too much mind to potency as well, I haven't exactly thought those values through. Potency is probably way, way too high for what the class is capable of... I also spent three hours on this. x_x)

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

At this point I'm inclined to ask if RDN is like SMN, as in is RDM a class that has been handled inconsistently form game to game?

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RDM and SMN were handled fairly much the same until XI, when RDM got hit with the crapstick, and then XIV kinda hit SMN with the crapstick cause it's a hybrid dot/pet job.

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Originally Posted by Naelle

I'd like to see them as a melee (rapier) support job. Forget the black magic and white magic for a minute and consider en-spells, haste, slow, refresh, etc. I'm imagining the melee counterpart to bard/machinist. I think to make it feel more unique give them a single weapon combo and a couple of spell combos that are all instant cast to facilitate melee range. Lunge -> Swift Strike -> Flurry and maybe use spell names like Fira and Blizzara. Just ideas.

Tldr: melee version of bard/machinist with instant cast spell combos.

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that would be awesome however melee spots are way more limited than ranged , u can have 3 ranged and 1 melee , but raiding savage with 3 melee (+2 tanks)? ugh... 5 players on melee could be a nightmare for mechanics...and if rdm has some support u are sacrificing the brd/mch slot for it ...no1 likes to change 1 ranged for 1 melee....

now if rdm had superior melee range kinda like medium range , that could work

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Originally Posted by Blindheart

Samurai needs to be DPS and share gear with Dragoon. So that leaves tank and healer open for red Mage...Mage tank could be awesome, and could use tank stances to play as tank or "DPS"... Then toss in blue Mage as a healer!

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Pls no ;-; I want SAM as the new WAR! Like DRK is a counter part PLD. RDM tank would be extremely weird as tanks wear... Tanky armor while RDM's wore cloth... Even when fulfilling the tank role I believe? I'd like to see them as a support melee like many people have mentioned, it actually surprises me the amount of people who have the same idea as RDM melee support which I really like the idea of Imo.

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Originally Posted by Katana190

RDM tank would be extremely weird as tanks wear... Tanky armor while RDM's wore cloth... Even when fulfilling the tank role I believe?

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The only game I know of that limits RDM to cloth was XI.

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Originally Posted by Ehra

The only game I know of that limits RDM to cloth was XI.

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Thanks for clarifying, my opinion on the matter is unchanged though D;

Red Mage, by definition on others FF, is a class who either use white magic and black magic, and fight with rapiers (which make them melee too). That terms doesn't apply to FFXIV because there is not "white magic" or "black magic", so we can say, they are a class for both damage and healing. Cannot be tank, they don't use tank armor, they use light armor or robes. I always say the same, I'm sure wil lbe a support DPS, with both damage and heal/support spells.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

That's not how it went. Ret went from a First-Come-First-Serve rotation with gaps for utility to a copy of rogue gameplay between Holy Power v1 and the finishers (Word of Glory, Templar's Verdict and Inquisition).

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You say "rogue gameplay", but rogue has no cooldowns on its spammable skills (hence they're being spammable), unlike CS, DS, Exo, etc. I know; I've played both, every spec, every expansion (didn't hit 50 in time in Vanilla, though). My only point was that raiding as Ret didn't feel substantially different going from BC to Wrath to Cata to especially WoD. Holy Power was quite a change on paper, but far from making the class handle especially differently. It certainly didn't make it feel like spam-rogue (its CDs keeping it mostly just as whack-a-mole FCFS as ever). The Improved Seals talent has honestly felt like the largest change since, until what I've seen of Legion's revised gameplay, which just looks like 6s-window Arms.

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Flash of Light was never free. The whole point of the Art of War mechanic was that it made those FoL's instant so that you only spend one GCD doing off-heals without wasting any time.

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When everything else is on CD and mana is a non-issue (as it's been, iirc, since after and situationally during Wrath), it's free. You have now made something out of a GCD you would otherwise have spent waiting. It didn't consume any dps procs. It just filled otherwise wasted time. The only thing more free than that would be an oGCD. This is all irrelevant though, as I already mentioned that this isn't a model I'd build RDM on, as RDM heals should always cost (at roughly equitable value) something by way of procs or GCDs that would otherwise be spent on another role's functions (typically DPS).

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To mirror this on RDM, you'd need to make Cure or whatever RDM-native heal waste enough time that you're encouraged to analyze each situation and then decide whether you should use your proc on a damage spell (equally inconvenient to cast outside of procs for the sake of balance) or a heal. You could even add a bonus to such a mechanic that spells cast that consume the proc would not interrupt combos to further encourage the RDM to weave those spells in.

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Agreed. Though again, I see combos and their use in a RDM especially as merely a fetter to gameplay EXCEPT where it makes timing and/or integrated mechanics (your above Swiftcast procs, etc.) necessary. To throw out some alternatives from just choosing which is used as a mid-combo filler (especially where a combo-bridge or -finisher may carry a buff/debuff, thus causing filler GCDs to adjust your gameplay windows, or you outright have a limited number of filler GCDs available within particular (de)buff windows, giving you, say, only 2 casts per 20s), you could also have your weaponskills themselves 'build' in different directions, with some paying off at different timings more for heals vs. tanking vs. damage, such that the RDM must actually think about what he wants not just now but some 10-30 seconds in the future as well, increasing skill-gap and decreasing convenience without causing clunky gameplay.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

Then why bother leveling anything else up?

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Because everyone might not like that class, like how people still play other classes besides Druid in WoW.

I only level healing or tank classes to max level, you don't NEED every class to 60.

[QUOTE=Ashkendor;3649223. Not to mention "jack of all trades" classes can certainly do a lot, but they typically can't do any of it as well as classes that specialize in a single role.[/QUOTE]

It can be like how druid is in WoW, classes have different "specs" they switch to and get those sets of skills. I have no idea why Square Enix would design this game in such a strict way. It's as if they've never made nor played an MMO before.

RDM, the new BRD/MCH alternative, support DPS.