SMN is Broken in PvP

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Originally Posted by Exira

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- That means that the stun itself isn't very applicable for anything other than to cover yourself or a healer, but the use of a stun DR is a high cost on it's own. Although thinking back I'm not sure how i even got into this discussion when I was talking more about CC and defensive options in general


- 5 yards is not tiny when you're taking into consideration that melee weaponskills are 3 yards in range. It hits the tank and melee that are on you or your healer, sometimes not even needing to swiftcast tri-bind if you're on the otherside of the arena or not their focus for whatever reason.

- Stun gun works to alleviate some pressure off myself or the healer if I'm next to them, that's about it. As I mentioned above, the fact it uses a DR on stun is a heavy cost on it's own, while it's not so much the case for bind because only ranged, healers (more so on WHM since they have fluid aura) and ninja even has access to it. It still rounds about MCH having weaker defensive options (aside from a higher physical defense, but when we're facing the likes of full swing, all bets are off) compared to SMN, which is what my original post was about.

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Originally Posted by Chaelyn

Sorry I've bursted just as fast if not faster than SMNs on DRG/MCH. The people I pvp with, and some replied to this forum, will tell you I have.

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I would be lying if I said I didn't get some clutch kills with MCH burst (if not drop someone onto the floor seconds within engaging), but I've seen just as much coming from SMNs as well. On top of that, theirs tends to be both more potent and reliable since hte MCH one is contingent on having a bind, sleep or stun on the target, the former 2 being broken on any source of damage and being just as wrecked by purify if we even want to consider that.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

I mean weakest in defense.

BRD & MCH have instant bind and heavy or something. I don't play these jobs in PvP.

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As I mentioned eariler, the defense is hardly a concern when you're facing a full swing that's traited toward 20% damage amplification. Not to mention SMN has instant cast binds through the use of swiftcast.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

*snip*

(aside from a higher physical defense, but when we're facing the likes of full swing, all bets are off)

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I don't even think mch wins on that front either. IIRC brd sports the lowest resistance amongst the jobs when it comes to both magic and physical damage in pvp. Since I'm sure they set that up to be based on role, I'm fairly certain mch is bottom in both categories as well and that would mean they take the same physical damage as smn but smn takes less magic damage than brd/mch.

After reading through the posts, I still think that SMN needs PvP tweaks for their skills. Purifying requires you to read when they're going to Tri-Disaster(which is always an opener, and .5s after Tri-Disaster you eat Fester->Painflare->Energy Drain->Deathflare in that time period unless a MNK has stunned them with Shoulder Tackle). Bane's there if your targets have poor position to spread DoTs. I can argue that Blizzard II/Tri-Bind are both excellent spells, though Tri-Bind seems better unless you're in a sandwich situation, in which Blizzard II is more useful to cover all around you against tanks and Melee. Casters and Ranged on the other hand(preferably enemy SMN nowadays, since BLM is nigh useless due to how their kit is designed in PvP) can eat Tri-Bind while the SMN gets out of casting range with a Swiftcast.

Shadow Flare can ACTUALLY help control the flow of battle by creating a large puddle of crap on the field. It can be used to choke enemies and also protect against Melee that are attempting to get you, as they'll be inflicted with slow for their next action onward until they are out.

Even the PVP skills can be good: Misty Veil can reduce range of healing and attacks, making it easier to get away or prevent people from being healed from normal distance. Wither is useful, albeit that only removes one beneficial effect, which could make it remove Protect or any other defenses since it's random. If you manage to knock off a SCH's stacks with it and reduce their healing capability, that's good for you. Aetheric Burst is just there to combat Melee and reduce their skill speed however, so it's useful to that extent.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

After reading through the posts, I still think that SMN needs PvP tweaks for their skills.

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Well, you're in luck! They are getting "adjusted" for PvP in a day. And from what they official post says, it's not (only) their PvP skills that are being re-balanced.

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Originally Posted by Chaelyn

A good mnk will stun the SMN if they still have it, or if they see them pop Dreadwyrm you stun them and OIP it off.

The point is people need to stop complaining about SMNs cause they're not that broken lmao. All these new people that are getting into pvp complaining that they're getting 1 shot. Any job and technically "1 shot" you.

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Kinda pathetic, really, because of all the new players/"bads" bitching about how OP the class is- yet they don't even show up on a certain site's pvp ranks.

Of course they flock to the OF and complain and SE sees it as people coming in droves.

Hard for me to take a lot of posters seriously if they've not even reached rank 50.

Good thing I'm just as confident on dragoon as am I with smn in Feast if they make the class useless.

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Originally Posted by BloodPact

Well, you're in luck! They are getting "adjusted" for PvP in a day. And from what they official post says, it's not (only) their PvP skills that are being re-balanced.

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"To rectify the situation, we will be making significant adjustments to summoner PvP abilities with patch 3.22."

I just LOVE that part. SMN is the ONLY class getting adjustments now rather than in 3.25. Just let that sink in for a second.

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Originally Posted by lovelikewinter

Kinda pathetic, really, because of all the new players/"bads" bitching about how OP the class is- yet they don't even show up on a certain site's pvp ranks.

Of course they flock to the OF and complain and SE sees it as people coming in droves.

Hard for me to take a lot of posters seriously if they've not even reached rank 50.

Good thing I'm just as confident on dragoon as am I with smn in Feast if they make the class useless.

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You do know that getting rank 50 takes quite some time right? It's not like you can grind out pvp rank while waiting for a queue by doing fates or quests. It's probably the longest single grind in the game currently.

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Originally Posted by Exira

"But they're like the weakest job in pvp"

What

Have you even stepped foot in pvp for the past year and a half? What tools do BRD and MCH have to save themselves? BRD has 2 pititful heals and MCH has 1 neither of which really "save" them. BLM sleep is a long cast unless you use the pvp ability with a hefty cooldown....

Your last statment could be said about anything ever. That argues nothing

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I can't speak for MCH but Bards can counter a SMN with extreme ease. Frankly, I'm not sure why you feel that those heals are pitiful. They are more than sufficient in my experience, at least alongside Bard's utility skills. SMN are honestly one of the classes that concerned me the least in encounters.

It's these people who are just plain bad or have no idea, that complain about things like this and get them nerfed unnecessarily. Exira, Ive seen melee destroy players just as quick as I can do with summoner.

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Originally Posted by Mandudez

You do know that getting rank 50 takes quite some time right? It's not like you can grind out pvp rank while waiting for a queue by doing fates or quests. It's probably the longest single grind in the game currently.

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http://puu.sh/nJqnM.png

I have no idea how long it takes to get to rank 50

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