Message to Developers about Map redesigns...

All of the Copy-pasta should be destroyed.

I also hope we get some form of transitional zone between The Black Shroud and Thanalan. Going from arid drylands to lush forest is odd, I was fully expecting that to appear after beta ended and we went live.

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Originally Posted by Jigg

If you want some blatant copy/paste, play Dragon Age II...they use the same building for 2038493849382 quests

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Yes they do. But this ain't Dragon Age so it doesn't affect my experience in FFXIV

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Originally Posted by MugenMugetsu

Please do not change the current layout of the maps of the world and cities. Adding things such as Mog Houses, etc. is fine but please do not change the existing World Map and City map designs. Too many people are whining about having a hard time finding their way around in places such as The Black Shroud, for example. My advice to them is to grow up and learn how to use, and read, your map. The world designs and city designs are perfect the way they are aside from the fact that some additions would be very welcome. A complete redesign of World Maps, City Maps, would be very upsetting to me as I have spent a great deal of time familiarizing myself with the existing layout of the World and Cities. Please, please, PLEASE, Yoshi P., do not allow a change to the designs of the maps. I love how beautiful and lush The Black Shroud is and heard from a friend that when the world map is redesigned areas will be more open which would take away a lot of the beauty and lushness of areas such as The Black Shroud. This would be a great disappointment as I have traversed the maps as they are currently, and have familiarized myself with them and would not want to have to learn completely new map layouts. I absolutely love the maps and world/city environments as they currently are. Of course, additions to these would always be welcome! As for those of you who do not like the current map layouts and find areas such as The Black Shroud to be "too confusing"...Grow up! This is an MMO geared towards adults. Be an adult and LEARN TO READ YOUR MAPS. They are fine as they currently are. No map I have encountered thus far has been anywhere nearly as confusing as the Yhoator/Yuhtunga Jungle Maps on XI, which, after taking the time to learn them, became VERY easy to navigate. Thank you for your time, and I hope this message is well received and any plans to change the map designs are abandoned or are at least under consideration for abandonment. Focus improvements in other areas. There is absolutely no need to change the design of any areas unless additions are being made to those areas and the change is to accomodate the addition(s).

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Smart level design comes in several aspects my friend. It is that design that dictates if a level or an area works.

While copy and paste method is used in all types of games the skill is not in how beautiful those assets look but in how well they are placed. The average player shouldn't notice repeated terrain or houses.

The levels and zones should not fight the player but should work harmoniously to enrich the experience and sell the reality of the world.

Unfortunately certain zones in FFXIV end up fighting the player, quite a bit. That is bad level design.

The Black Shroud needs to be changed for the sake of the players as well as the in game world. Unlike the Jungle maps in FFXI The Black Shroud is just too alike wherever you go. The jungles, while looking similar had enough difference so that you could find your way. Unfortunately, they weren't well designed. If the player gets lost too easily and is unable to find their way it becomes problematic for the game because it breaks immersion and flow. On the same note it becomes problematic for the player because the player becomes frustrated.

I am curious, since you used FFXI as an example you failed to mention The Sanctuary of Zi'Tah as an example of a good zone. Much like the Black Shroud it is a forest but the difference is that Zi'Tah doesn't fight the player. Quite contrary, it draws you in and allows you to take in the richness of the forest.

In order for the Black Shroud to work as a forest we need a level design closer to Zi'Tah. Where players can pick their own way and truly feel the depth of the forest. By the looks of it that is exactly what we are getting and I for one cannot wait.

In regards to the Cities- although I haven't heard much about the cities being redesigned... Well, in my opinion the Cities don't so much need an epic redesign as they do need more attention to detail. There needs to be more NPC's doing things, moving, talking, interacting.

Limsa needs dock workers and knights patrolling the city.

Uldah needs the poor district looking dirty and grungy and far overcrowded. It needs it's whores walking around and flirting with NPC's and players alike.

Out of the three Gridania needs a redesign the most. It is a HUGE city and getting around it is a pain. Like the others it needs members of the Gods Quiver and Wood Wailers going about. It needs npc's running errands.

All in all, all three cities need to sell the fact that people live there. Certain parts will be dirtier than others.

Redesigning these things and adding in new ones such as Mog Houses (which they need!) or personal gardens or whatever, does not mean that the beauty will be lost. In fact it will be enhanced because it will show just how much attention to detail SE has to what makes a city and a town work and thrive.

So you see, it isn't a case of reading maps at all. The zones are not "too confusing", hardly, if anything they're far too boring and similar. Especially in The Black Shroud's case where the narrow path ways really make you feel claustrophobic. You can't appreciate the beauty of the vast forest when you can't hardly see and go anywhere.

MugenMugetsu, thanks for sharing your opinion/feelings about this. I'm glad that you were respectful to people who disagreed with you- one doesn't see that very often.

My intent isn't to start a fight but merely to shed some light on why a redesign is necessary.

Also, I do apologize if this was mentioned before. Thanks for reading!

Smaller, unique "zones" within a larger "area" is what we need and I believe what we are getting.

Thanalan? Looks like they are adding a "Mountain Zone" with snow, ice and a glacial/crater lake.

La Nosca? Looks like it is being subdivided into 3 "zones" . Low Plains/Desert (sparsely forested), High Plains (transitioning into heavy forest) and either a Mountain or Valley area (Densely Forested).

I look forward to any changes as the current areas are just plain boring. I just hope they pay attention to "Transition Zones". I hate it when you are in Forest 1 second and in Desert after 3 steps (or zoning).

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Same here. The Black Shroud licks dog balls. I also avoid it at all costs.

However, I honestly don't mind the other maps at all, even with all the copy pasta.

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I haven't had the chance to get into Mor Dhona yet, though from what I've seen, it doesn't seem as blatantly repetitive as others do. However, I'd say that from my experience, Coerthas seems to be the least obviously repetitive of the other zones. I still see repetition, in that the entire zone, practically, is the same rocky outcroppings, cliffs and such. I think that it's broken up by major land structures - lakes, high cliffs, ravines, etc... makes it seem less so.

I'm really interested to see how new zones added later are designed.

The map image that Yoshi-P is holding up in the Q&A looks to me to be much more like a traditional FF map... You can see where there are changes in elevation, you get an idea of the overall 'theme' of a given area (brown and dry, green and alive, etc) and it just looks overall like it's going to be much more interesting to explore.

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Originally Posted by Novie

I also hope we get some form of transitional zone between The Black Shroud and Thanalan. Going from arid drylands to lush forest is odd, I was fully expecting that to appear after beta ended and we went live.

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I was thinking the same thing, even as far back as FFXI lol. "Why does a bright, tropical beach (Valkurm) give way to a windy highland (Konschtat) with no sense of natural transition?", "Why does an arid canyon region (Meriphataud), give way directly to a lush, atmospheric woodland (Zi'tah) with no sense of transition? You don't even see any trees in the distance when approaching it".

I was kinda surprised, and disappointed, to see the same thing happening in XIV. Maybe they'll take that into account with the redesign and make the areas "blend" a bit better across zone lines.

Don't listen to the OP who can't even form paragraphs which are taught in the 2nd grade.

Let's ask for new textures and environment models, then complain when the game files are 50gb! Solid plan!

The cycle of complaining continues.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

I was thinking the same thing, even as far back as FFXI lol. "Why does a bright, tropical beach (Valkurm) give way to a windy highland (Konschtat) with no sense of natural transition?", "Why does an arid canyon region (Meriphataud), give way directly to a lush, atmospheric woodland (Zi'tah) with no sense of transition? You don't even see any trees in the distance when approaching it".

I was kinda surprised, and disappointed, to see the same thing happening in XIV. Maybe they'll take that into account with the redesign and make the areas "blend" a bit better across zone lines.

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I feel the same way. I really hope they include nice area transitions when constructing the new zones. It would be really, really cool to see a gradual increase in the number of trees as you approach the Black Shroud. First a few stray trees, then more and more until finally you come upon the border of the Shroud proper: towering trees in the distance are surrounded by a dense thicket now looming in front of you. The road you're following narrows and disappears into the darkness through a small break in the vegetation. Pausing to take in your surroundings, you find yourself reconsidering whether this is indeed a path you ought to follow.


....now do that with every major environmental transition, and call me when you're done, 'cause I want to play! ;)