Isn't this class trinity a bit dated now?

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Hybrids are incredibly hard to balance. Not only do they need to be balanced in and of themselves so that one aspect isn't completely overbearing making every other aspect useless, but they also need to be balanced with every other class.

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I agree it's difficult. Do you remember how long it took Blizzard to balance Druids!? They took forever and constantly went from overpowered to underpowered. Having SE try that would ruin the game.
I do miss the talent trees though.

The only way I think it would work is if there was a second job based on your class that was geared to support (or DPS if you're a BRD/MCH) that level concurrently with your class.
EG-THM gets Time Mage support role, ARC gets Ranger DPS role
But every DPS class would have to have a support role or it would ruin the balance of dungeons and DF.

is there combat system that isn't dated. sandbox dated, every class can do all 3 jobs dated, to be honest there is nothing new under the sun the dev haven't tried before. trinity is only system that works the best produce the best results

To be fair when they do try to shake things up a little look at the way people flip out.

Example:

Tank: "Hey healer, instead of standing there can you throw some dots on the mobs"

Healer: "OMG ITS NOT MY JOB IM A HEALER NOT A DPS I PLAY MY WAY YOU DONT PAY MY SUB RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE"

I would give more examples but I think this is the most common one people are familiar with. So sticking with the trinity just keeps the peace

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Hybrids are incredibly hard to balance. Not only do they need to be balanced in and of themselves so that one aspect isn't completely overbearing making every other aspect useless, but they also need to be balanced with every other class.

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True, but the only parts of this unique to hybrid classes are also about the easiest to solve. There are only two primary balancing checks for any given job - effective general output and specific opportunities, both of which are entirely dependent on the particulars of a given fight. Even mere resource-sharing is generally able to solve either. That could be through shared expenditure, where spending resources on healing costs dps opportunities, or role-specific 'builds', such as rotations building up certain effects that relate only to a certain role (those just being two sides of the same count, much like cooldowns and [spendable] ramp-up), or whatever else, but ultimately a class that's designed from the ground up to be a hybrid (especially if a "true" hybrid) is the one that would have the least issue balancing the outputs of these multiple (role) outputs.

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Originally Posted by AI_wass

Hybrids centralize encounter design and job balance around themselves like gravity wells.

It's much easier, much less of a headache, to design more straightforward jobs with interesting gimmicks than to develop true hybrid jobs.

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Granted, it's true that hybrids, especially when they have strong but non-simultaneous (and often short-windowed opportunities there-for) outputs for each role, tend to centralize group coordination around themselves, but is that such a bad thing? Moreover, is it even unique? We hold off on using Dragonfire Dive in order to score a 4x hit a half-minute later. We take care to put our Cards on those who can best use it, and sometimes that requires knowing who's about to enter (CD) burn phase, and who needs to recover TP for AoEs, etc. Though less common now, it's been a common enough strategy to slow down dps before a given dps check in order to ready CDs. How do any of these things hinder, rather than improve, quality of gameplay?

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

To be fair when they do try to shake things up a little look at the way people flip out.

Example:

Tank: "Hey healer, instead of standing there can you throw some dots on the mobs"
Healer: "OMG ITS NOT MY JOB IM A HEALER NOT A DPS I PLAY MY WAY YOU DONT PAY MY SUB RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE"
I would give more examples but I think this is the most common one people are familiar with. So sticking with the trinity just keeps the peace

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If you try to cater to people who refuse to recognize half their action bar... I really fear for the product. The goal of design should be to stimulate and excite the players, giving them a good time. If it has to force you into more than the most rigid, minimalistic, and mundane performance of your job, shouldn't we be commending this? The problems I find more often is that the game does little to bridge the ideas of role-fixation and reality (how to actually get the most out of a given job and its skillsets, whatever 'role' that may fall under). Leaving role performance to base typology flattens their actual points of interest tremendously.

It would indeed be nice to have more encompassing and engaging rolls, that I agree with. But since the playerbase, on the NA side anyway (surprise) is split over something like stepping outside their small box or just simply hitting 8 instead of 4 on their kb, they either need to really blur the lines or stick with it. This middle ground gives too much room for people to give 50% because they feel their title says they can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Hybrids are incredibly hard to balance. Not only do they need to be balanced in and of themselves so that one aspect isn't completely overbearing making every other aspect useless, but they also need to be balanced with every other class.

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I think the best example of I have seen of hybrid classes functioning well is in The Secret World. However, there are no classes......you can equip any combination of 2 weapons and the abilities are linked to your weapon type.

For example:
Blades: DPS and survival (defense)
Hammer: DPS and survival (block)
Chaos Magic: DPS and survival (evade)
Blood Magic: DPS and healing (shields)
Fist: DPS and healing (HoTs)
Rifle: DPS and healing (Leech/Drain healing)
Elemental: DPS and support (buffs)
Shotgun: DPS and support (buffs)
Pistol: DPS and support (buffs and debuffs)

Each weapon has it's strengths and weaknesses, but you can combine any 2 of them to create whatever you want. You can also mix and match any passive abilities (traits) that you have learned. Rifle and Blood is a popular healer setup because you heal by dealing damage and then Blood allows you to mitigate with shields. Every combination brings the ability to perform multiple functions.

The tank - DPS - healer roles still exist, but they are based more on how you have alloctaed your stats on your gear. Each role is capable of (and expected to) do more than the basic function.

FFXIV's structure isn't really ideal for something like this, but I have seen hybrid classes work very well. Versatility isn't something XIV is especially good at ...gameplay is too homogenized. Cross-class skills seem like an attempt at customization but the result is extremely limited and ends up just giving a false impression of versatility. I seem to recall in 1.0 that cross-class was far more open but not necessarily any more useful. I think SE had gone too far with trying to make everyone feel "equal" by making everything too restricted.