[SUGGESTION] LIMIT POINT / MERIT POINT SYSTEM

I for one would welcome a system that would allow me to continue to advance my level capped class/Job outside of armor upgrades.
Armor upgrades are ephemeral anyway so I would enjoy upgrading my character itself even if very slightly.

As it stands my weekly routine is cap Eso, run Alex and done. I'm not ready to smash my face against Savage yet. I've already kitted my alt job out in upgraded Law gear and with Eso and Alex gear on weekly lockout there is nothing else I can do to advance my main job or even 1 sub job.

Don't get me wrong, I still have lots to do in-game with crafting, gathering & leveling DoW/DoM jobs but that isn't the topic at hand. (and they have their own issues...)

Several people in my FC/LSes are already starting to complain about the weekly hamster wheel. That 'new expansion smell' has started to fade.

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

If I want to play FFXI, I have an option to do so. I chose to play FFXIV instead and don't need to see a rehash of events, systems, etc. from that game ported into this one. I want FFXIV to become a world class, unique MMORPG, not a rehash of a game that is now 13 years old.

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It's narrow-minded to assume everyone has that option. A lot of people can barely afford time for one MMO and those people (myself included) chose FFXIV over other games for very real reasons (like my wife not being a typical gamer but enjoying XIV). Merits or no merits, it's not unthinkable to let people wish/request systems inspired by features they enjoyed in previous games.

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

For players like you, there is no "choice". You are obsessed with being "optimal" - like a smoker addicted to smoking.

Worse, you see your way of playing as the only way and think everyone would play the same way.

Never does it occur to you that some people would play for "fun" instead of "optimal".

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The problem with your post is that it assumes that people who play optimally aren't doing so for fun. I enjoy my gametime, and get the most enjoyment from the gameplay (so sans the socializing aspect) by doing well at my role, facing a challenge, and succeeding. What I do not find fun is having to work as a collective group X% harder because someone in the group wanted to be different. To me, in a social game, that is the epitome of selfish behavior. Playing solo content or in unsynched/old content do as you please. You will win either way, which makes the choices ironically meaningless as well.

So here is a novel idea. What if--and stay with me here--what if the game wasn't designed around the necessity to have merits. And let's say that merits served more along the lines of an echo-like buff to content? Or what if in Savage mode raids merits did not work?


I mean, to say that character customization is outright a bad thing, or will just be more grinding, or that people will only pick one "build" and all other players who don't pick said build are bad players, is a pretty bold and somewhat inaccurate statement.

In XI, I played as a DRG and there were a set number of abilities you could learn on each job, one of the main abilities was Angon, players said the best build was to max that ability out so you could increase your DPS, however I did not, I put it into Deep Breathing which enhanced my Wyvern's breath attacks, and low and behold, because I had a gear set build that complimented it I was able to keep up with the other players in my groups in terms of DPS.

The main thing about merits is they should open the door to thinking outside the box in terms of finding new ways to increase or better your role. If you choose to cop-out and follow the herd on what to pick because you cannot think critically--well the only shame for that is on you--not on the system itself.

Now if you don't like the idea of merits for the sake of having to be at the "LP grindwheel" then I offer this to you...what exactly are you doing now in this game? What have you been doing in this game since launch? Have you not been at a gear grindwheel, trading out pieces of gear for the next new shiny? Where is the difference between LP and gear? One quick difference is that LP you grind once, gear you can grind until your whetstone is naught but a pebble. You (hypothetical) speak of the illusion of choice yet this game's gear is the biggest illusion of choice to date...so much so you can literally make the illusion of different gear over gear because only ONE set of gear is optimal, versus with merits there could be a numerous amount of combinations that offer optimal builds.

/Micdrop

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

So here is a novel idea-

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I agree with you about the first part - second part is whatever that's a matter of implementation rather than function so it's sort of a personal preference on how you garner whatever it is towards customization. :)

I think you hit all the key issues with a system like this and address them all pretty succinctly - I also agree that the biggest illusion in FFXIV is gear. Item level easily hides the fact that getting new gear every few months is an illusion of growth - numbers get bigger and you feel like you're growing (whoo) - but the only in comparison with older content that is now essentially irrelevant (oh wait..).

Example; I don't go back to Amdapor Keep normal to compare how much stronger I am at lv60 in i190 vs. lv50 in i55 - because it's not really relevant.

This is the issue everyone skirts when clinging to the current system of rigid vertical progression. We don't have a growing expanding game - we have the same "new" shallow end-game every 3~6 months.

Limit/merit was a great system in FFXI, and I could see them bringing it here in similar fashion. OP suggestions aren't bad, but let's look at what such a system REALLY is. An extension. A time sink, something to keep players busy for a while until whenever the developers want to release the next thing. It's a way to feed progression. Right now, we've got new things, a new level cap, new ilvl cap, new raids, new continents, a bunch of new, new, new. Limit/Merit didn't come out in FFXI until the 3rd expansion, at a point in time where power had been capped steadily at level 75. Perhaps it was a way to introduce more power without having to rebalance a whole lot? That was my speculation at the time and I think this holds some truth. But I can see them bringing it to 14, and I wouldn't dislike it either, just not right now, it wouldn't feel right.

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Originally Posted by KMFDM_Kid2000

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Oh I agree with you, its not the right time for Merits yet, however all good ideas take time to develop so I was voicing it now to maybe see it in a year or so.

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

For players like you, there is no "choice". You are obsessed with being "optimal" - like a smoker addicted to smoking.

Worse, you see your way of playing as the only way and think everyone would play the same way.

Never does it occur to you that some people would play for "fun" instead of "optimal".

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I didn't say that playing your best is the only way to play. I said it's disrespectful to others not to do it. You're free to make that choice, but you should have no allusions about what you're doing.

If you're playing with other people who ARE doing their best, then you're just a liability if you're not doing the same. It's extremely selfish to make everyone else work harder because you can't be bothered to try.

I'll reiterate too, I LIKE character customization. I wish FFXIV would do more to differentiate people of the same job. I'd like some kind of specialization system to emphasize different playstyles. But I object to false choices. If such a system is going to be implemented, then it has to be balanced such that my performance is roughly the same no matter what I decide to choose. Some spread is inevitable, but it should be really minor (maybe +/- 10% in either direction? I could live with that).

Let me give an example of what I mean.

As a NIN main, maybe I could choose to emphasize my DoT gameplay and have a specialization that revolves around DoTs and getting bonuses when I manage those correctly. Maybe I could have one that emphasizes positional gameplay, adding more positional requirements to my abilities and providing commensurate bonuses when I execute that properly. But whichever one of those I choose, they'd have to be roughly the same in terms of performance. Then it really is a playstyle choice.

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Originally Posted by Wobi

The only real issue is over time this will create a rather wide gap between new and older players, it's fairly well thought out and like FFXI I imagine they'd set it to where you cannot cap out everything. I'm not against the idea on principal but there will be consequences, even if unintended.

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that wouldn't be a issue old players should have a huge gap between them and new players i mean seriosely there should be a gap between the two that is very large

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Only problem with this is we all know the bean-counters, whose primary function in life is to suck the life out of life, will determine the "most efficient" skills and the sheep will follow.

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I understand that people do jot like that argument, but people like doing the math and figuring out the best. People also like not wanting to deal with the doing the math and just looking for a well informed guide with not only the build but why to build. You can hate on both, but they both enjoy what they are playing.