Done with AST

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Originally Posted by MidnightTundra

I don't want to offended you but in all honesty, what do you bring to a raid? I do want your input and I want you convince me. I will thoughtfully attempt to counter your argument with my somewhat extensive experience between SCH and AST in Heavensward.

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The problem is that people expect AST to bring something *over* the other jobs, which by definition means AST has to be stronger to 'justify' ditching a job. That's not the point. The point is being able to choose a healer for your class comp, and still progress.

And the one you quoted already gave examples.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

And white mage does not have a pet that can provide a constant stream of heals along with the 3% haste buff every 30 seconds either.

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The reason why WHM has incredible prevalence in current content is due to the fact that they have many means to boost their healing output. They aren't there to have competition with SCH's niche, they're there because their healing power is unparalleled. On top of their healing power, they bring the highest healer DPS compared to WHM and SCH in both AoE and single target.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

What astro brings is the best short cooldown instant cast heal in the game with upwards of 1000 potency if you learn to time it right.

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ED gets to 994 potency (400 + (600 * missingHealth%)) if your target has 1% of their max health. It is a nice CD that I cherish but this is literally your only burst heal. As a SCH, I have the potential for three in a time spam of 60s with a 1s CD. WHM has Tetra along with Benediction, the only % based heal in the game right now.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Between synastry and lightspeed we are very powerful aoe healers being able to hit 3k-3500 hps (unless they nerfed aoe heals to Synasty. Have not tried it yet) so yes Astrologians are as strong of a healer as scholar and white mage.

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This sounds like you're overhealing by a lot. HPS doesn't mean anything if people aren't really taking damage. LightSpeed doesn't boost your HPS by what you're thinking because it doesn't reduce the GCD. It is more or less a tool for mana conservation and mobility. Synastry never worked with AoE nor ED. They also do not extend the added effects of your cures but I agree, it is a really good CD. It is a good CD but WHMs DS Regens on top of Asylum give a good means of dealing with both tanks. SCH has Rouse + Pet which is comparable/surpasses for much, much cheaper in MP cost.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

if you coordinate your buff cards with your dps it is literally the best damage buff in the game that exponentially adds 10% dps buff to blood and rage strikes.

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Yes buffs do scale multiplicatively but the thing here is, can you actually have this on command to sync with the DRGs buffs and do these short buffs make up for the SCH beating you by 100 DPS or more in single target?

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Originally Posted by Rahaya

The problem is that people expect AST to bring something *over* the other jobs, which by definition means AST has to be stronger to 'justify' ditching a job. That's not the point. The point is being able to choose a healer for your class comp, and still progress.

And the one you quoted already gave examples.

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If the AST doesn't have a clear strength, there's no need to bring it. WHM + SCH work so well together because they compliment each other. If the WHM can handle the bulk of the healing for the time being, the SCH can lay waste in his personal DPS along with his pet curing and provide party-wide utility. AST can't really lay waste in terms of personal DPS because i'll oom myself. Take Lucrezia's A2 savage video. What is their SCH doing? Decimating the adds with Dots>Bane + Shadow Flare and Miasma II. You can't put out consistent AoE damage on AST because it is too heavy on your M. Pool.

I also apologize, I didn't notice the edited post.

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Originally Posted by Rahaya

The problem is that people expect AST to bring something *over* the other jobs, which by definition means AST has to be stronger to 'justify' ditching a job. That's not the point. The point is being able to choose a healer for your class comp, and still progress.

And the one you quoted already gave examples.

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I don't think it needs to bring something OVER either of the other two - different and comparable would be fine, but at the moment we lack noticeable comparability unique or otherwise. I'd like to see another emergency heal for one thing.

After a week trying to find some redemption on AST as a job in Savage, I've decided that tomorrow I'll be leveling my WHM to 60 so hopefully I can be of any use in my static.

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Originally Posted by MidnightTundra

If the AST doesn't have a clear strength, there's no need to bring it.

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SCH + AST is the top party buffing combination for DPS. A2 clear with AST https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWfPcG43yrA for example. If your party composition is not optimal for Selene (*cough* SMN *cough*) and it runs up your TP bill, or you'd much rather time DPS buffs for burst phases rather than a passive haste, AST works better. It's the only healer that can grant TP/MP. Synastry is amazeballs. Single target AST DPS isn't too shabby. Perhaps the WHM isn't god tier and can't shoulder all of the healing burden. AST would be contributing DPS anyway, where my SCH would be babysitting.

How about, it's fun?

AST is not perfect right now, but a lot of the complaints about it that I've seen are a bit off base.

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Originally Posted by TyloRime

I don't think it needs to bring something OVER either of the other two - different and comparable would be fine, but at the moment we lack noticeable comparability unique or otherwise. I'd like to see another emergency heal for one thing.

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You should see a large number of the proposed buffing threads =P Celestial Opposition is pretty terrible for the CD, I honestly think that should have a healing component attached and not the stun, with a slight CD reduction to 120 sec. The biggest problem with Nocturnal Sect, in my opinion, is that it copies all the skills SCH doesn't use right now. Why on earth would I Succor? That shield gets cannibalized into an heal. I can't Shadowflare and Sacred Soil, if this was FCOB then Collective Nocturnal would make sense, but it isn't. There's nothing to Sacred Soil in Alexander right now. About the only thing that sees some use is Adlo, which just makes me go =/ all the times it doesn't crit and gets knocked off by the first attack and Nocturnal doesn't even shield for that base amount. (costs less mana tho. Yay?)

I'm getting to this point. I've been able to clear the content I've attempted on AST, but I've also always been aware that I would be having an easier time on SCH. I've just started healing the Heavensward dungeons on my SCH and have definitely felt far less pressed so far compared to how I felt while leveling AST. While ASTs are certainly capable of clearing the content, their emphasis on faster, more mana-efficient heals means having to cast more to achieve similar results, which leaves less room for DPS and also reacting to emergencies and/or mechanics.

I very much prefer AST's general playstyle to that of SCH's, but I also haven't been a main healer for a long time and don't necessarily always enjoy taxing myself needlessly when healing to assist my FC. As such, I'm probably going to be going back to SCH, though if there are further changes to AST, I'll likely give it another whirl.

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Originally Posted by Rahaya

SCH + AST is the top party buffing combination for DPS. A2 clear with AST https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWfPcG43yrA for example. If your party composition is not optimal for Selene (*cough* SMN *cough*) and it runs up your TP bill, or you'd much rather time DPS buffs for burst phases rather than a passive haste, AST works better. It's the only healer that can grant TP/MP. Synastry is amazeballs. Single target AST DPS isn't too shabby. Perhaps the WHM isn't god tier and can't shoulder all of the healing burden. AST would be contributing DPS anyway, where my SCH would be babysitting.

How about, it's fun?

AST is not perfect right now, but a lot of the complaints about it that I've seen are a bit off base.

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You completely missed my reason maining AST. I play it because it's fun and I'll probably still play it because, well, it is fun. I'm not changing my main either.

Both times the AST used Synastry in the video, a WHM could just throw up Assize between them and passively regen them both. They were stacked closely together.

RNG is still RNG. I've had plenty of times where my cards don't line up for a burst phase where as I can just time or save Fey Wind when the burst phase shows itself.

My highest AST parses are 811 for 2 min (lucky rolls with damage buffs) and 760 for 3:11 on a dummy. I know all about their single target damage. WHM still destroys them and SCH edges ahead slightly because oGCD nukes. AST AoE damage is the worst by far for how much mana I am expending.

What if the AST isn't god-tier (if we're taking player skill into account)? That's more healing I have to do on SCH because they naturally can't keep up where as the WHM naturally restores more HP aka more time for me to DPS as SCH.

Keep in mind, if AST was completely useless like people claim on this forum, I wouldn't play it. I noted it's strengths that immediately stand out to me.

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Originally Posted by MidnightTundra

Keep in mind, if AST was completely useless like people claim on this forum, I wouldn't play it. I noted it's strengths that immediately stand out to me.

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You asked what does AST bring to the raid. I'm answering that? I'm not arguing with you why or why not you are playing AST. Why ask if you already know?

And there is where 'people expect AST to do something *over* another class.' If both classes can keep the tanks up, then great! Whether or not WHM or SCH can do something too isn't a mark against AST. Healing is it's job. I will point out, the WHM wouldn't have been buffing party DPS at the same time, which was the point of why I posted the video in the first place? DPS buffing comp.

We do have Spread. Maybe I've just been ridiculously lucky this entire time, but I don't find burst phase planning at all difficult. That probably skews my opinion there.

WHM DPS is restricted by accuracy. Same as Energy Drain/Broil and Malefic II, but accuracy is definitely of far greater concern for WHM DPS than the other two.

I'm taking party composition into account, of which planning around your co-healer is a big part. Can I deal with my Prey target, help with AOE healing *and* heal both tanks? Doing that on my SCH was an exercise in frustration and no amount of 'naturally healing more' would have allowed me to DPS. My AST felt a lot smoother and I still had my cards.

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Originally Posted by Rahaya

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But I am arguing your points though and whether I agree with them or not. I read the forums sometimes and I really want people to really convince me/others why they think it's on par with the other healer's kits. Rarely do I meet people who don't complain about how terribly useless the class is. Maybe there something I'm not getting/doing that makes me really say "AST can do this better than my SCH". In other words, I'm looking to be enlightened. I'm not having a hard time with the class at all.

I've had phases during Ravana and Bismark where my expanded buff hasn't lined up with either balance or arrow for a burn phase. It isn't difficult but RNG is RNG.

WHM DPS is indeed restricted by accuracy but their hit rate isn't as low as people exaggerate. You can look at the parses of WHMs compared to SCH from Elysium and Lucrezia. They still output a wealthy amount of DPS.

I can't actually comment on the last line (assuming you're speaking of A1S) due to not having a raid group (I don't like the scheduling). So I guess I'll take your word for it.