ishgard

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Originally Posted by WyrahFhurrst

Is it? A religion based on martial combat with another group may have one of its prized heroes become its leader, and then his bloodline become the head of that religion.

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Why do we assume they are related? Thordan VII is what is called a Regnal name and regnal names are either first names or actually chosen by the monarch. On a side note, a papacy actually is a form of monarchy itself.

The fact that Thordan was the name of the father of the first dragoon and that it's the name taken by the pope is a sign that it might be related, the pope could also be elected but still Haldrath could have been the first pope.

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Originally Posted by lololink

The fact that Thordan was the name of the father of the first dragoon and that it's the name taken by the pope is a sign that it might be related, the pope could also be elected but still Haldrath could have been the first pope.

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Sharing a regnal name is absolutely not a indicator to relation. Pope Innocent III is utterly unrelated to Pope Innocent I.

Actually, this just came to my mind...

What if Shiva (the real one) was Haldrath's sister, King Thordan I's daughter? She fell in love with Nidhogg and brought the Spoken and dragons closer together, but Haldrath grew jealous of her happiness or didn't trust the dragons. This drove a wedge between Dravania and Ishgard until they teetered on war until Shiva somehow sacrificed herself to try and bring peace. At some manner of peace summit brokered with Shiva's life (possibly the Akh Afah Ampitheatre or the area we've been shown to meet Hraesvelgr at), Haldrath betrayed Thordan, killed him, and gouged out Nidhogg's eye. Then everything was covered up, the Holy See formed, and the Dragonsong War begun.

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Thoughts?

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I Agree with you, I think the hole reason of this war is just a mix of beauty/beast thing + and all thing of ( if you arent mine you are no one's) ( to me of the echo vission im still thinking that that azure dragoon wanted to do soemthing that the 12 knights were oposed, and jugding hs face, it looked something personal )

On my opinion this holw war started by something really comon, but hard to see. The love of a woman.

Rivals in love leading to a propagandized war? Considering I've seen it's usage as a plot mechanism in books and animes before, I could see that as the stupidly simple underlying cause.

Regardless of who Shiva is, I don't think her relationship was with Nidhogg. I expect it will be with Hraesvelgr. If anything, I am guessing that Nidhogg would have been among those trying to tear them apart.

Im almost certain we will find that Nidhogg's hate goes back further, probably to the Allag. There is no way Dravania was spared from Allag conquest when they were so close to the center of Allag power and that would have almost certainly shaped the views of many dragons.

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Originally Posted by Celvantis

Sharing a regnal name is absolutely not a indicator to relation. Pope Innocent III is utterly unrelated to Pope Innocent I.

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I think a few centuries separate the lives of Innocent II and Innocent III let alone Innocent I.

When it comes to sovern name heraldy the number is just indicating how many people carried the name. Especially amungst clergy where marriage is traditionally forbidden.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Regardless of who Shiva is, I don't think her relationship was with Nidhogg. I expect it will be with Hraesvelgr. If anything, I am guessing that Nidhogg would have been among those trying to tear them apart.

Im almost certain we will find that Nidhogg's hate goes back further, probably to the Allag. There is no way Dravania was spared from Allag conquest when they were so close to the center of Allag power and that would have almost certainly shaped the views of many dragons.

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I also believe it was Hraesvelgr that Shiva had a bond with. If you notice in the biographies Hraesvelgr is the one dragon that refuses to take part in the war. Considering that the two of them were likely working towards peace between their peoples it would make sense that her partner would not vie for revenge. Nidhogg, on the other hand, does indeed seem to have a much deeper hatred. Whether this stems entirely from the loss of his eye I'm not sure. He attacked the Coerthans at the founding of Ishgard (according to the Ishgardian story) so there was likely something even further back that provoked him; possibly something to do with Allag as you suggest.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

I also believe it was Hraesvelgr that Shiva had a bond with. If you notice in the biographies Hraesvelgr is the one dragon that refuses to take part in the war. Considering that the two of them were likely working towards peace between their peoples it would make sense that her partner would not vie for revenge. Nidhogg, on the other hand, does indeed seem to have a much deeper hatred. Whether this stems entirely from the loss of his eye I'm not sure. He attacked the Coerthans at the founding of Ishgard (according to the Ishgardian story) so there was likely something even further back that provoked him; possibly something to do with Allag as you suggest.

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I think the whole stealing his eye thing was just insult to injury my self. If we even have his literal Eye. After all it looks more like a shinny rock to me than a 1000 year old preserved eye ball that was pulled from a dragon's eye socket.