(Serious) White Mage and Scholar are equally balanced.

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Originally Posted by mp-please

Lustrate and cure II are literally the same skills in terms of usage (and not lustrate = benediction like some people say), the only difference is how one is insta cast. Yes i know cure II has mp cost but that allows whms to cast it regardless anything while scholar is bound by aetherflow stacks, same way as any good whm will weave cure Is with cure IIs for that freecure proc making both lustrate and cure II require no mp. If we think about it, on a good fight, cure II won't be used more than 3~6 times per min

I actually love how a lot of scholars boast that their lustrate is instant cast, however considering how every fight on this game is telegraphed anyone should be able to predict damage income as you get more experienced with the fight. The real lustrate advantage is to heal while on cleric stance with the instant cast lowering the dps downtime and to be able to heal a target instantly.

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So your argument is that Lustrate and Cure 2 are the same skills in terms of usage, in that you use one when you need an instant heal while in Cleric stance, and the other you don't? :p

And I think the best comparable to Cure 2 for Scholars isn't Lustrate, but Adlo. Yes, I'm aware that Cure 2 has no shield component, and Adlo has no cost reduction proc, but when do you cast Adlo on somebody? When they are missing HP and you anticipate them taking damage soon - otherwise the shield is wasted. When do you cast Cure 2 on somebody? When they are missing HP and you anticipate them taking damage soon* - otherwise you'd cast a Cure or a Regen or just let the SCH fairy take care of it instead. In both cases, this can be a tank or a DPS or a healer, whereas Lustrate performs much worse than Cure 2 or Adlo on DPS or healers. Admittedly the amount of HP missing before the spell becomes useful is different between the two, but the strength of both spells relative to HP pools (and the cost of both spells relative to MP pools) is similar. Also, both Cure 2 and Adlo work only while stationary or swiftcasted, both are affected by healing buffs/debuffs, and both require a cast time to work (again unless swiftcasted). Conversely, Lustrate is usable on the move, couldn't care less if Twintania stacked Death Sentences left and right, and happens right now.

I do agree that Bene and Lustrate are two different abilities and directly comparing them is weird. I just don't think that Cure 2 and Lustrate are the same skills in terms of usage. Yes, you should try and minimize your casts of both, and you might use them roughly the same number of times in a minute, but the way you use them is actually different.

*Or if you have a Freecure proc, but that's a reversal of the norm - a free Cure 2 is more efficient than a Cure is more efficient than a normal Cure 2.

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Originally Posted by Yona87

Theres a lot of things my SCH can pull of in coil compared to my WHM, its not even comparable.

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And the same can be said the other way round as well.

I pulled a save off in T13 phase 4 after the OT died to the holmgang Ankh morn and SCH to the megaflare before Shaker/Tether/Tempest>Giga>shared Ankh Morn. You can see my healing dip in the logs as I raise both people followed by a sustained 3000-4000HPS effort over the next minute as I burn MP keeping people up solo through the following mechanics.

Could I have done that as SCH? If I was being lazy with my cooldown usage and had a few charges + aetherflow + fey illum in my pocket then perhaps. MP isn't likely to be an issue, and even when it is, I can usually play conservatively to get back on track within a minute or two.

As WHM? My cooldowns were a non issue (I didn't have DS in the situation used above) and I'm confident in my ability to pull off huge bursts of healing pretty much on the drop of a pin regardless of what CDs I have on tap. Instead the issue here is that if the same thing happened the following megaflare, chances are I simply won't have the MP to do the same.

As I've said many times, I fail to see the problem with this balance. The issue of course is that the vast majority of this game's content simply doesn't require anything like the raw healing throughput that I pulled there. I average 1200-1400HPS in T13 and have hit phase 3 with a 1900HPS average on occasions when the SCH has been an issue. By comparison, if I'm doing more than 500-600 in the likes of WoD it's usually a complete waste.

Just because *you* may not see content in which WHM truly shines, doesn't automatically make it a broken class. I'm confident I'll still be playing WHM when the push for 3.0 Savage Alex server firsts hits.

But if a SCH is always using Aetherflow stacks for Lustrate then they are wasting parts of their Toolkit. Energy Drain, Bane and SS are very valuable skills in the right hands and shouldn't be dismissed just because they aren't Lustrate.

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Originally Posted by Menae

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Adlo, personally, its in its own category (same for benediction and sacred soil). I understand why people compare adlo to cure II but i don't believe it's the most correct due to the shielding factor. Meanwhile lustrate matches cure II raw non crit power straight out (on targets with similar gear) and it's use in terms of "use when tank drops below a certain %" and how you have to use all 3 aetherflow stacks before you can use the skill again for more efficiency (same as using freecure procs), maybe on expansion scholars will get physick II and that will be a more correct comparison. But then, we're still comparing oranges to apples here.

Usage wise, adlo main perk is the shielding, unlike cure II, adlo is not meant to be spammed even on emergencies as that only burns through sch mp. Assuming no big hits, most people will just do a adlo > physick+embrace x2/1-2 lustrates (or let whm handle it while swapping to cleric for dps) > adlo once galvanize wears off or later on for another big hit. About precasts, adlo definitely needs a precast before a big hit, doesn't even matter if tank is maxed out or not.
Fairy reliability, that depends a lot on the fight and how much dmg people are taking, if there isn't much income damage, for example on t11 after seeds. 1 succor after the 1st hit usually lets the fairy top everyone no problem.

Scholar and white mages are not really balanced. I see 15x more scholars then I do white mages in duty finder. Ive gone for a streak of 7+ dungeons before seeing one white mage then its always another streak of scholars. Scholars are easier to play since its a 1.5 of a healer and if you slow down the pulls your pet alone can solo 90% of dungeon runs.

People will play which is the stronger job regardless of pro and con of each job. Scholar is just played more often since its stronger and easier to master then white mage. Has oh crap buttons that stomp on the white mage and with a pet that can heal for you even the most novice of healers can do semi decent since healing is so easy in this game. Back when ARR and lower gear level was the norm healing was harder but really its the easiest role in the game now.

Being a good dps and tank is noticed when things die faster and less healing is required with a good tank but healing is so dead easy now the difference between a good healer and bad healer now is just how high of a dps the healer can push since the healing aspect of the responsibility is well mindless.

If you want to do well in ff 14 even high end as a newbie player you can master healing within an hour. Every dps has 5-6 buttons you have to learn to weave properly with proper cooldown management. Scholar can do all extremes/dungeons off spamming physical.

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Originally Posted by Galdous

Scholar and white mages are not really balanced. I see 15x more scholars then I do white mages in duty finder. Ive gone for a streak of 7+ dungeons before seeing one white mage then its always another streak of scholars. Scholars are easier to play since its a 1.5 of a healer and if you slow down the pulls your pet alone can solo 90% of dungeon runs.

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I could say I see 50x more white mages than I see scholars in duty finder. It proves nothing, however. Like how you claim you see more scholars, other can claim they see more white mages. Heck, the contrary even mentioned in previous topics. There are plenty of reasons why one would go for one healer over the other for duty finder. Being lazy is one of them and this applies when queuing on either job. It's all between your ears.

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Originally Posted by Parawill

Lots of stuff about lustrate vs Cure

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I'll actually add even more to that. Even before factoring lustrate in, SCH's cast times are on the whole shorter. So, for reactive/emergency healing, I think that is a strength of SCHs.

But I'll still maintain the healers are balanced. They both have their strengths and weakness. I felt I pointed out a few examples in my first post on that topic and you added a few more examples with yours.

This is why they work so well together. Each healer can cover the other's weaknesses.

So why do we have to try to prove one as superior to the other? Why do we get people like a few pages ago that are really hoping to make one extinct?

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

So why do we have to try to prove one as superior to the other? Why do we get people like a few pages ago that are really hoping to make one extinct?

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I am captain basch fon rosenburg of dalmasca! Don't listen to ondore vlady lies!

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

So why do we have to try to prove one as superior to the other? Why do we get people like a few pages ago that are really hoping to make one extinct?

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This is why,
/toss purple scarves to the scholars.
/toss green scarves to the white mages.

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Originally Posted by Grug

This is why,
/toss purple scarves to the scholars.
/toss green scarves to the white mages.

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/toss purple scarves to scholars in alexander raid
/toss green scarves to the astrologian in alexander raid
*looks around for white mage but sees sign that reads "rerolled to Astrologian" where the white mage stood.*

I will not gloat nor nay say anyone if Alexander raid uses the current mold of two healers and the norm for alexander raid is scholar/astrologian. Only reason white mage even works is because there is room for the antiquated healer for another month and half.