So DRK will be mp based

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

Still don't see why DRK would use Int. Does NIN use Int for their Mudras? Those count as magic attacks. No, they still draw their damage off of Dex. Using Int to base greatsword damage off of is... well, slightly ridiculous, IMO, so I see absolutely no reason why their magic attacks (provided their Power of Darkness attacks count as magic damage) wouldn't scale off of Str as well.

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Well, one could also say that it made no sense that Ninja ended up using Dexterity in the first place when it was a melee class and melee classes all used Strength. They could pull the same move and say Dark Knight uses Intelligence for little more reason than "they felt like it." I would say the main point going against Dark Knight using Intelligence is the fact that Strength, as it stands right now, also affects parry. If they didn't use Strength they would probably want to change the text for Intelligence to state that it affects parry specifically for Dark Knight similar to how they changed the text for Dexterity, but again, it wouldn't be anything they haven't done once already.

It makes perfect sense actually. Fighting with knives and daggers is more about finesse, and very VERY little about physical strength. In a knife fight, the quicker, more accurate knife fighter will beat the physically strong knife fighter, every time. Greatsword on the other hand, is all about great physical strength, and precious little about being smart.

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Originally Posted by Zophar

It makes perfect sense actually. Fighting with knives and daggers is more about finesse, and very VERY little about physical strength. In a knife fight, the quicker, more accurate knife fighter will beat the physically strong knife fighter, every time. Greatsword on the other hand, is all about great physical strength, and precious little about being smart.

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On the contrary, using a two handed weapon required it's wielder to be smarter, they were mainly used for breaking pike formations and got paid double the wage, otherwise they were used like short spears when close to someone. Ironically archery actually relies heavily on strength yet is affected by dex or agility in most games.

And yet, you can still use a great sword without being smart. Try using it effectively without the physical strength required to wield such a heavy weapon. And while your point about the bow does have some merit, not all varieties of bow require the same level of physical strength to draw, while one thing every single bow requires to be used effectively, is a very steady hand.

Using any kind of weapon requires it's wielder to act smarter than the opponent, brute force rarely gets anyone anywhere unless the opponent they are facing is a bad fighter.

Obviously a greatsword requires strength to wield but in order to use it effectively you'd have to be pretty smart with how you go about it, especially if it is heavy.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

On the contrary, using a two handed weapon required it's wielder to be smarter, they were mainly used for breaking pike formations and got paid double the wage, otherwise they were used like short spears when close to someone. Ironically archery actually relies heavily on strength yet is affected by dex or agility in most games.

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They got paid extra because heavy 2H swords were not easy (cheap) to acquire. In addition, they required more training. (also not something anyone would have, in part due to the cost of the swords)

Archery only requires strength for drawing the bow, with just a lot of strength you might be able to shoot far; but you still won't hit anything.
While agility is not an archery related stats in general, I guess it has to do with the type of archery being a combat-heavy movement kind of archery; which would indeed require high agility.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

Using any kind of weapon requires it's wielder to act smarter than the opponent, brute force rarely gets anyone anywhere unless the opponent they are facing is a bad fighter.

Obviously a greatsword requires strength to wield but in order to use it effectively you'd have to be pretty smart with how you go about it, especially if it is heavy.

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A 2H swords greatest strength was it's heavy weight. Because physics. Being smart really had nothing to do with wielding weapons like that.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

A 2H swords greatest strength was it's heavy weight. Because physics. Being smart really had nothing to do with wielding weapons like that.

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My point is that it doesn't matter what weapon you are using it's about outsmarting your opponent in the end, A heavy weapon would be disadvantaged against someone that knows what they're doing. Only weapon raw brute force really applies is a mace or club style weapon as that's exactly what the intent of such weapons were, wounding enemies underneath their armor. And archers don't move, save for those on horses, but when you are actually aiming you yourself would not be running.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

My point is that it doesn't matter what weapon you are using it's about outsmarting your opponent in the end, A heavy weapon would be disadvantaged against someone that knows what they're doing. Only weapon raw brute force really applies is a mace or club style weapon as that's exactly what the intent of such weapons were, wounding enemies underneath their armor. And archers don't move, save for those on horses, but when you are actually aiming you yourself would not be running.

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Those were tactics for large scale or otherwise heavily coordinated battles. Archers in rpgs rarely have the luxury of being protected against melee attacks. (or aoes) In addition, agility is more for speed of drawing + movement, rather then movement alone.

Great Swords are also ''raw brute force'' weapons tho. Not sure where you got the impression they were about finesse.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Those were tactics for large scale or otherwise heavily coordinated battles. Archers in rpgs rarely have the luxury of being protected against melee attacks. (or aoes) In addition, agility is more for speed of drawing + movement, rather then movement alone.

Great Swords are also ''raw brute force'' weapons tho. Not sure where you got the impression they were about finesse.

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I never said they were about finesse but they aren't just mindless hacking weapons either.
You aren't going to just cut right through most people, you would focus more on thrusting in closer distances using the slashing part of the weapon situationally. And my point on archery still stands, you wouldn't move while shooting, it's just inefficient and awkward the exception being horseback archery, You'd most likely carry a back up weapon for melee. (obviously in an rpgs this isn't the case)

If they really want to have INT as the primary damage attribute, they can do that. Maybe normal great swords are about raw brute strength, but perhaps the DRK uses his magic (INT) to empower the greatsword which is where it's real extraordinary strength comes from. I don't think it's a good idea to do it this way, but it's definitely possible.

Anyhow, I also wouldn't be surprised if they straight up made DRK DEX based in order to just change things up. Maybe it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but it would be interesting in that they could draw more heavily on BRD(maybe nin) abilities to get a different mix of things. Would also encourage more NIN/BRD players to have tanks since they can share some of the gear (right side if they want to, much like many tanks will run full or near full right side STR accessories now). There's nothing stopping this from happening if they want to go this route.

Not that I really like either setup, I really enjoy the shared tank armor since it allows me to (currently) switch to PLD without much loss if hallowed is strongly encouraged in a fight. So my preference is definitely STR and all tank armor being DRK/WAR/PLD.