SMN redesign in expansion?

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Originally Posted by DoubleD

Yes, I know there's 100s of summoner threads. But they need help.

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I agree with you. But SMN is a bit different in that there are 2 branches of these threads.

One says SMN can't keep up in DPS in endgame content. They're right.

The other says SMN isn't SMN because it's the first time SMN has had dot attacks as a focus, they want a more pet centric job, want current SMN redesigned or renamed etc. That's what this thread is, and the threads are all terrible. It's pretty much akin to the DRG threads saying they should have a pet like ffxi DRG did, except it's only ffxi fanboys that ever cried for that, and fanboys of every other previous FF that had SMN wanting this job to be a copy of those.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

I agree with you. But SMN is a bit different in that there are 2 branches of these threads.

One says SMN can't keep up in DPS in endgame content. They're right.

The other says SMN isn't SMN because it's the first time SMN has had dot attacks as a focus, they want a more pet centric job, want current SMN redesigned or renamed etc. That's what this thread is, and the threads are all terrible. It's pretty much akin to the DRG threads saying they should have a pet like ffxi DRG did, except it's only ffxi fanboys that ever cried for that, and fanboys of every other previous FF that had SMN wanting this job to be a copy of those.

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While I'm essentially a fanboy of how FFX summon system was. I admit that I am aware that FF14 is a different game and am not wanting to make FF14 into FF10, although I did enjoy the pilgrimage feel with fighting and taming the egi's, I'm not requesting SMN to be reworked around FFXI standards. Would I like a pet based class where I control most of my DPS from my pet? Probably, but that's not what I am asking (not that I am saying you are calling my out, I am just explaining my view on the matter).

I will reiterate it again. I don't like that SMN is pretty much Arcanist with Fester. I'd like to see some of it's DoT's be more unique (cosmetically) and with a slight DPS buff such as what I mention a page or so ago. As it is now it's lackluster in more areas than just endgame content.

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I'd like to see shadowflare as a targeted AoE with a DoT element vs what is is now. They should've had spells like:

Pearl: (holy/spirit damage) to replace Ruin, but keep blind effect.
Demi/Demi II: small burst damage with a DoT (replace Bio & Bio II)
Pain/Meltdown: Damage plus heavy effect w/ minor DoT (Make comparible to Miasma/Miasma II and replace)
Whirlwind: could act like shadowflare does now, but it would be something along the lines of the tornadoes the dragon spawns in SV NM.

With something like the above this would still make use of Contagion, Bane & Fester, but make SMN a bit more tolerable to play. It's my favorite class in the game, but atm it is very lackluster in comparison to BLM and needs to be different in comparison to SCH/ACN

Also I miss thunder :(

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I like SMN as it is. I like being able to control my pet, but also being able to attack using DoTs so that I just don't stand there; sorta like how healers like to be useful when healing isn't required.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

I like SMN as it is. I like being able to control my pet, but also being able to attack using DoTs so that I just don't stand there; sorta like how healers like to be useful when healing isn't required.

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Heh, I think you are missing the point... (unless you are replying to someone else and not me). I'm talking about changing summoner so that they stand apart from that of SCH & ACN. SCH is soooo far away from playing like ACN and it is primarily due to the pets not being the same as Topaz Carbuncle to Titan and Emerald Carbuncle to Garuda. That is pretty much my issue. SMN was probably the most lazily designed Job in the game in comparison to the rest and it needs to be corrected and hopefully it will be in 3.0.

I'm not saying take away DoT from SMN. I''m saying change their skills to show uniqueness in their job.

I hope they will at least change all of the specific Summoner's job skills, they're all terrible:

- Summon III: apart from being completely useless in any serious content, it shouldn't even be one of the 5 job skills, but rather just a basic skill included with the job's crystal;
- Fester: this would be the only good Summoner's job skill... If you didn't run out of MP in less than 3 minutes by actually using Fester instead of Energy Drain;
- Tri-Disaster: simply the worst skill in the entire game, it's not worth using even in solo or in pvp;
- Spur: an almost identical copy of the skill Rouse... Seriously? It looks like they didn't even try with this one;
- Enkindle: just like Summon III, it shouldn't even be a job skill since each pet already has its own "finisher" skill icon; a macro to use all 3 of them would have been enough.

Scholar has 5 cool and unique job skills plus 2 different pets that can actually be used directly during combat, so why can't Summoner too?

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Originally Posted by Hammerfist

Win

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Exactly my point!

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Originally Posted by Hammerfist

I hope they will at least change all of the specific Summoner's job skills, they're all terrible:

- Summon III: apart from being completely useless in any serious content, it shouldn't even be one of the 5 job skills, but rather just a basic skill included with the job's crystal;
- Fester: this would be the only good Summoner's job skill... If you didn't run out of MP in less than 3 minutes by actually using Fester instead of Energy Drain;
- Tri-Disaster: simply the worst skill in the entire game, it's not worth using even in solo or in pvp;
- Spur: an almost identical copy of the skill Rouse... Seriously? It looks like they didn't even try with this one;
- Enkindle: just like Summon III, it shouldn't even be a job skill since each pet already has its own "finisher" skill icon; a macro to use all 3 of them would have been enough.

Scholar has 5 cool and unique job skills plus 2 different pets that can actually be used directly during combat, so why can't Summoner too?

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I'm just...whoa...how are people that ignorant of ifrit being the best dps since what... 2.1? I don't even know man. You lose all credibility the moment you say anything adding up to "lolifrit".

Spur being "unoriginal" doesn't make it terrible.

And you're saying Enkindle is bad...because it's 1 skill and not 3? Would have to be 4 skills by the time of the next egi. If enkindle had been seperated by pet there would have been tons of completely justified complaints asking to make it one skill.

So you're only really right about tri-disaster, and they eventually gave SMN bliz 2 to compensate. It's the only job that's gained potency by a change of cross class skills. It certainly means tri-disaster could use replacement, but never will since there still is a (very niche) use for it.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

Exactly my point!

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and if that's exactly your point you've lost all credibility as well.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

Heh, I think you are missing the point...

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No...he's just disagreeing with it.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

I'm just...whoa...how are people that ignorant of ifrit being the best dps since what... 2.1? I don't even know man. You lose all credibility the moment you say anything adding up to "lolifrit".

Spur being "unoriginal" doesn't make it terrible.

And you're saying Enkindle is bad...because it's 1 skill and not 3? Would have to be 4 skills by the time of the next egi. If enkindle had been seperated by pet there would have been tons of completely justified complaints asking to make it one skill.

So you're only really right about tri-disaster, and they eventually gave SMN bliz 2 to compensate. It's the only job that's gained potency by a change of cross class skills. It certainly means tri-disaster could use replacement, but never will since there still is a (very niche) use for it.

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Raging strikes + Contagion makes up for any extra dps that Ifrit-egi can do; also, since it's a melee and can't be placed as well as Garuda-egi, it dies twice as much and is therefore an inferior pet.

Anyway, this is not just a matter of potencies and balance: the reality is that, for now, Summoner has only 1 actual job skill (Fester) and the remaining 4 are just a waste of space (yes, including Enkindle since it should be a pet skill and not a job skill).

Summoner is arguably the most poorly developed job in the game, especially when compared to Scholar, so try white-knighting harder next time.

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Originally Posted by Hammerfist

Raging strikes + Contagion makes up for any extra dps that Ifrit-egi can do; also, since it's a melee and can't be placed as well as Garuda-egi, it dies twice as much and is therefore an inferior pet.

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You do understand that Summoner needs to be in melee range as much as possible to get maximum DPS, right?

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Originally Posted by Hammerfist

Raging strikes + Contagion makes up for any extra dps that Ifrit-egi can do

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Even this hasn't been true in a long time.