Relic Weapons: Going Forward

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

At not point did I ever say that you were going to be "handed" your relic weapon.

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You didn't but all your post sure make it sound that way.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

In any case, I do not see them requiring any of the jobs that were are getting in the expansion to have to go back and do 2.0 content.

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Literally every patch, SE has put measures and "content" into the Relic quests that makes you go back and do old content. There is absolutely no reason for you to think this way when everything SE has done up to this point is the exact opposite of what you are describing.. It makes no sense at all for them to do this...

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

I don't think they will give you the 2.0 weapon, but merely a kind of credit so that one could progress to the 3.0 relic quest line. For example, players would do X,Y, and Z quests to put them on the same footing as someone whom had completed the 2.0 relic.

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This invalidates all the work players have put in to their weapons. X, Y, and Z is why people think you are saying this...

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

At no point did I ever say that you were going to be "handed" your relic weapon.

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...because X, Y and Z sounds 1000x easier than what people had to go through while doing their relic quests at their points of relevance. Oh, btw, I fixed your gramatical error here.



Seriously, you are just delusional if you think every single step is going to be invalidated, regardless of how valid your claims may be or not. It will probably get nerfed further, I totally agree with that. But you are speculating things based off of older MMO's and not using the facts from this game, where the evidence is readily apparent.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

At not point did I ever say that you were going to be "handed" your relic weapon.

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Then I am terribly confused by what you mean....

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

I have a feeling that the current relic will come to an end, not just because they have mentioned it before, but because making it so that all players start out fresh on a new relic quest on even footing seems to be the fairest way to do things.

Now a lot of people don't want all their time and effort they put into something to have been cast aside when the expansion goes live, however that is the nature of games of this type.

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You enjoy spending months on the upgrade process only to be rewarded with a weapon that is a marginal upgrade from the previous version?

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This will pretty much have to happen. The current incarnation moving to the 3.1 version can only really go 1 of 2 ways:

A) The entire 2.0 line is nerfed into the ground like you mentioned.
B) They make a kind of catch up quest for players, whereas players can do a quest(s) and after start on the 3.1 version

This also becomes very necessary for brand new players, and anyone wanting to play the new jobs in this expansion and any future expansion.

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My gripe with the process is that for all the hard work that people put into it, the upgrade is marginal at best.
That means that raiders have the raid weapon and the relic, but your average casual player has nothing.
I agree with you. It is going to get nerfed. People that don't believe or like that need to get over it. This is why option B of my previous post seems to be the most logical going forward to the expansion.

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If they unlock at 60, I cannot see it being required to complete the 50 relic before moving onto the 60 relic for a job we just unlocked at 60.

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One of the big things that myself and others that I have talked to in game don't like is that there seems to be a significant amount of work involved with completing the upgrade process from one stage to the next, but the upgrade seems to be marginal. Just seems that if a player would be required to put in two months worth of work to upgrade his/her weapon, that the upgrade should be worth the time invested into it.

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A) Old gear always gets invalidated by the newer gear. This is how things work. Just like in your example, the old raid gear gets replaced by the new raid gear.
B) This isn't one fell swoop also. This is an additional 10 levels, plus who knows what trail/tome/crafted/raid gear later.

It is fair as it allows all players to start off on the same footing. Whereas not making a brand new relic forces them to either create some type of catch up quest or forces them to nerf the entire previous relic to the ground so that players whom didn't complete the 2.0 relic, for whatever reason, can catch up.

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If they create some type of catch up mechanic, I don't think they will give you the 2.0 weapon, but merely a kind of credit so that one could progress to the 3.0 relic quest line. For example, players would do X,Y, and Z quests to put them on the same footing as someone whom had completed the 2.0 relic.

I was only thinking of this because if a player started the game in the expansion it seems unlikely that they would stop, while leveling to do the entire relic quest line. It would be especially hard for them to complete knowing that the vast majority of the player base is no longer doing content of that level. Even if the requirements were relaxed a bit, doing all of the fates and dungeons would become tedious for that player. As a developer you want people to be doing the latest content. Forcing players to spend large amounts of time in the old content seems to defeat this purpose.

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Even in other games, every player new or old, starts off the expansion on equal footing. Yes, a brand new player will not start off at the previous max level or with that ilvl gear, but I'm not suggesting that this happens. Only that a totally new relic quest line for the expansion would be equal to all players.
It seems rather odd that we would be asked to dig out something that would likely be used as glamour at that point to upgrade it to a level 60 weapon.
But it seems odd that we would tell that new player that they cannot get their job specific weapon unless they are willing to trudge through content that, at that point, 99% of the population is no longer doing. Thus making the current time it would take to finish each stage of the relic even more compounded.

At not point did I ever say that you were going to be "handed" your relic weapon.

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Looking over all the things you have said, it really sounds like you want it handed. Because what we have, even nerfed as it it, is too long and complicated. So, As I said before, I will simply wait for 3.1 to come out so I can do a shortened version of the relic quests with relative ease to be on an equal footing with the rest of the players. This is called handing it to me by comparison.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

is for vanity and could care less

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Could care less = there is still another lower level of 'caring'
It's COULD NOT CARE LESS.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Not sure that this realistic. We don't know when we will unlock the DRK job, or any other of the new ones for that matter. If they unlock at 60, I cannot see it being required to complete the 50 relic before moving onto the 60 relic for a job we just unlocked at 60.

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I don't think its fair to give away easily a zodiac weapon to a job just because its new, the time it takes to get your zodiac is too much to just throw that away, I remember in XI you wouldn't see that many legendary weapons and people who had theirs they only had that one or if the guy played a lot maybe two, the time it took to get it was enough so you had to choose which job you liked most. In this game is easier and faster, I like that, but it takes time, one thing that im ok with is that they can nerf content like giving more alexandrites and light so you can finish it faster, right now with the current upgrade on drops I got my relic atma from scratch in 1 day, if the job is level 60 well I think the logic thing is that they will have quests to upgrade the current weapons from 50 to 60.

Im sure that a lot of people will be happy doing the same quests to get their zodiacs with new jobs, this games are meant to last and if you look at it, it doesn't take that much time.

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

Seriously, you are just delusional if you think every single step is going to be invalidated, regardless of how valid your claims may be or not. It will probably get nerfed further, I totally agree with that.

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It's perfectly understandable that people want to keep their zodiak weapons and build them further while keeping them relevant in terms of stats. But if that's what you want, you need to understand that you're creating a huge barrier of entry for new players and that barrier is going to be lowered.

By 3.1, assuming Zodiak actually does carry over into the expansion, expect to see each relic step severely nerfed and requiring minimal effort and time to complete.

I think a lot of people are looking at relics the wrong way, there is only a gap if there is no other means to get a weapon but there are other weapons beside relics. From the time SE added Atma stage you could tell SE was giving relic more of the "Oh that person has one of those, maybe one day I'll get one" type of weapon the more stuff SE add to relic the more they become rear, each stage added there are ppl that give up on it. Which makes it even less and less ppl will be willing to do the grind. Back around 2.1-2.2 yoshi said that there was to many relics out there and too easily to obtain. ATM there is primel weapons, token weapons, crafted weapons all there for new people to get if they don't want to do relic. I think people are crying more for their self than for new ppl. If someone wants something bad enough they will do what ever it takes to get that goal done!!! Relics to zodiac as it stand right now (-RNG) can be done by anyone in 8 weeks time and that play very casually.

I have 2 zodiac weapons, one novus, and 7 weapon on Atma stage ninja with one book left. There is ppl working on thier 4th zodiac already, hell saying it's impossible for new ppl is like say we will never see anyone make a new relic and ninja is a good example of relics can be done if you want it. It was added in 2.4 but yet there are a few ppl with zodiac weapon for it already.Char limt

Nerfs I expect to see to the relic chain moving into 3.0:
1) Atma drop rate boosted to 20-25%
2) Animus books reduced from 9 total to 4, 1 for each stat. SE will be fair with PLDs on this one
3) Alex drops boosted to 20-25%, grade IV materia will be super easy to procure using new (cheap) gear that will have 100% convert chance
4) Light gains doubled again
5) Zodiac drops boosted to 50% and Spring Waters/Bombard Cored cost reduced by 50-75%

I also expect:
New jobs will not have to do these relic steps, their relics will start at whatever stage is level 60. Current jobs in the future will still have to go through the grind.

I don't even see how it creates a "huge barrier of entry" at all. It's not like people who start playing with the expansion are going to start at level 50! They will still have to start from level 1 and go through all the original content. Working through relic is just part of that. There are other powerful weapons you can use while working on your relic. What's wrong with having relic as a side project? You don't HAVE to have relic. It's for people who want to put extra effort in. Yes, I think letting people skip the original stages would cheapen it. Make it a bit faster, sure, like they are doing now. But the whole POINT of relic is that it's time consuming and involves extra effort, thus you are rewarded with something "legendary". If you only care about catching up stats-wise, there are plenty of other weapons.