3.0 & Weapons / Armor.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Think better way is to make all secondary stats equal in usefullness, then you could build a set based on your playstyle. Eg a heavy crit set, a heavy skill/spell speed set etc Det and Crit weigh too high above the other secondary stats. Making skillspeed affect TP regen also for example so a gearset built around skillspeed and crit would be an alternative.

I remember there was mention of making speeds more desireable/useful in 3.0.

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You also need the content that makes those alternate sets viable. Without that it just becomes build BiS set and you are done statwise.

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How we do loot in coil, We have our main job and we pick a secondary job that gets priority on repeat drops that the mains already have. Also I buy poetic BiS items for MNK first, then further poetic purchases will be for other jobs. Also BiS is subjective. Pushing turn 13 for example you need accuracy cap for that, for previous turns you dont need as much acc so if you are at that point of pushing you would already have gear to swap around for each turn. Same for content outside of FCoB. Would be a waste using 535 accuracy gear in experts for example :)

If you want to optimise for all content, horizontel progression is already there.

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True, but outside FCoB, Frontlines, and farming DD/AV for relics there is no real reason to optimize. This is one of the main reasons I like ilevelsync. Content with it is no longer max ilevel gear fits all.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Pushing turn 13 for example you need accuracy cap for that, for previous turns you dont need as much acc so if you are at that point of pushing you would already have gear to swap around for each turn. Same for content outside of FCoB. Would be a waste using 535 accuracy gear in experts for example

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This is true, but it's a very meek attempt at horizontal progression and I doubt it was an intended one, it's simply a natural result of vertical progression. The game currently isn't built for horizontal progression, the inventory issues I initially mentioned are testament to that. We have 10, going on 12 (or more) combat Jobs, and 11 non-combat Jobs to fit into 25 Armoury Chest spaces. There simply isn't enough room to build multiple gear sets for the current forms of Accuracy based horizontal progression.

That said, I'd much rather see horizontal progression achieved through unique stats which are unlocked (be it learning them permanently to swap out the gear, or some kind of Materia system). So you'd obtain the gear from dungeons and other non-BiS content for their unique stats to boost a single BiS set. With enough stats and a limit to how many you pick you end up with the same concept but without multiple gear sets playing a part outside an initial grind; for example, in raids perhaps you want faster LBs, so you set High Tide before starting a raid, but for Bismark you want Wind Resistance (I assume a giant flying fish Primal will be Wind based, at least), so you set a Wind Resistance stat. Similar to how the Cross-Class skills work, but with an actual choice in what you set and reason to change around your choice based on content. Farming items? Set a Treasure Hunt stat. Doing a fight you know will have poisons thrown at you? Set a Resist Poison stat. And so on, basically this. It's absolutely a concept torn from Final Fantasy IX and outside an aversion to extra grinding, I think it achieves additional stats in a perfect fashion.

Sorry guys, I don't think they will change to horizontal progression all of a sudden...

Take 2.4 for example, the 135 weapon blows the High Allagan 115 out of the water, so why should the new weapons for 10 levels higher, be at the same level as those? Makes no sense, either for the game-world, or for SE to change like that...

I'm all for horizontal progression if it's done right, but you can't just take a game like FFXIV and remove all progression. They would lose most of the player-base within no time at all, trust me... The whole point of doing content is to get better gear, to then get even better gear, remove that and people would have no incentive to play...

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Originally Posted by Ramesses

Several people already know this and the images below have been reposted several times before on the forums; however, I'll explain anyway... the images for some of the job class "AF2" have been shown in one of Yoshi's Live letters (about 8 to 12 months ago?).... and we expect SE to release these in 3.0.

As for the weaponry, that info is currently unknown... I'd say exercise patience. Spring is not that far. These are the images, (and I'll just name them for which jobs they have been "speculated" for). First up is Summoner...

http://i.imgur.com/HxjPt45.png

Warrior...

http://i.imgur.com/TRaDhPi.png

Monk...

http://i.imgur.com/wnzkSn5.png

Bard...

http://i.imgur.com/JkiA359.png

And then dragoon, which is what Derplander was wearing in the Heavensward trailer...

http://i.imgur.com/vmG6nJA.jpg

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Somebody went a bit OTT enlarging those images. Here are my original edits.

http://i.imgur.com/UqbAMhh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/LUcNxld.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/asFMASi.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6jkD2sm.jpg

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Originally Posted by Craiger

I'm all for horizontal progression if it's done right, but you can't just take a game like FFXIV and remove all progression.

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How would adding horizontal progression mean removing all progression? Horizontal progression literally just gives us more ways to progress... Currently we have Coil and everything else is Glamour fodder, horizontal progression would mean you do Coil for BiS and Crystal Tower for the gear there as well, for potential reasons I wont bother repeating.

More content to do for progression purposes, especially when main content has weekly lockouts, is not going to drive people away, it'll give people more things to do and more reason to keep playing. If anything the incredibly strict vertical progression we currently have is driving people away.

It is only truely horizontel if all gear is equally viable and at the same level of power, if a set gives even a tiny bit more then it's vertical progression.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

You also need the content that makes those alternate sets viable. Without that it just becomes build BiS set and you are done statwise.

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Which is why I iterated making all secondary stats equal in effectiveness, example, say I want to go full on skillspeed as MNK, with present weights I would be underperforming compared to at least a balanced set of det crit SS. If they were all equal I would be performing equally, just the dynamics would change due to faster reuse timers not the performance.

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Originally Posted by Galliano

Somebody went a bit OTT enlarging those images. Here are my original edits.

http://i.imgur.com/UqbAMhh.jpg

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Seeing that finally pushed me to go MNK XD <3 that design

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Which is why I iterated making all secondary stats equal in effectiveness, example, say I want to go full on skillspeed as MNK, with present weights I would be underperforming compared to at least a balanced set of det crit SS. If they were all equal I would be performing equally, just the dynamics would change due to faster reuse timers not the performance.

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I suppose the only problem with something like this is that they would need to possibly make some changes to skill speed to have it increase TP regen. Otherwise a player whom did this would burn through all of his/her TP too quickly.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Which is why I iterated making all secondary stats equal in effectiveness, example, say I want to go full on skillspeed as MNK, with present weights I would be underperforming compared to at least a balanced set of det crit SS. If they were all equal I would be performing equally, just the dynamics would change due to faster reuse timers not the performance.



Seeing that finally pushed me to go MNK XD <3 that design

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Yeah it looks awesome! I may even gear MNK as a second class after DRG. Still loving the DRG af2 the most though and the teaser trailer made me want it even more!

Those are actually pretty cool, the AF2! :p

Keep the discussion on! This topic is something of interest.