Dragoons feeling left out?

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Originally Posted by Empressia

Lets see DRG have 3 weak links that need to be FIXED to make it at least on par with MNK such as :

1. Add potency bonus on True Thrust, Vorpal thrust, Full Thrust preferably from flank - NOT YET

2. Reduce Jump, Spineshatter Dive, Dragonfire Dive cd to 60s and increase their potency by 50-100% - NOT YET

3. Remove jump animation lock - FIXED

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Yeah SE, get right on "reducing" that 40 second Jump CD to a 60 second Jump CD.

The coil group I'm in has been going for a year now and we have a dragoon in the group. Personally, I take the person with the best attitude, most experience, and pulls good dps in context with the group. At least for me, job doesn't matter so long as you know your job well. That's just me though.

Well sadly, fights like T11 are very unforgiving for DRG. Lots of magic damage, times where you have to dodge and cannot make your rear/flank attacks. For this reason Ninja and Monk are preferred over DRG. Not to mention a good ninja can potentially do more damage than a monk (they have almost no positional requirements).

For this reason, if you have a person who is a capable melee and can monk or ninja instead of drg, you have almost no reason to bring drg. (The buff for bard isn't enough to offset this as it doesn't bridge the dps gap of bringing a monk or ninja.)


In other words drg still needs something else to bring to the table until then it is the weakest melee dps atm. :/

If a fight has a rear cone attack it's just a matter of learning when it's safe to hit Impulse Drive. Disembowel and CT have no requirement. A Rear cone is also a very good opportunity to refresh Heavy Thrust. MNKs don't lose their combo if they aren't in position but they do lose DPS by not receiving the flank/rear bonus. If it's a radial AoE that is larger than melee range that's just a reason to properly manage Spineshatter and Dragonfire Dive. You can be back in swinging while the MNK and NIN are still running back into melee range. Basically a DRG may not be the melee DPS that can walk into a fight blind and manage their output, but they have all the tools to keep up once they know the mechanics and timing.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

If a fight has a rear cone attack it's just a matter of learning when it's safe to hit Impulse Drive. Disembowel and CT have no requirement.

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Until the mechanic happens that requires you to have a head facing you and you can't impulse D;

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

This is exactly the problem, people are trying to faceroll their way to 50 with FATE spamming and then trying to learn how to play. It was sad and scary how I was undergeared, underleveled, and joining boss FATEs 10% in at Costa and still pulling hate from whoever had lead. I'm level 43 now and I've already seen the lolNINs in Stone Vigil - no mutilate, no dancing edge, using katon on a single mob, and so on.

Ninja has a pretty steep learning curve, and if you haven't been practicing good rotations yet, you're in for a lot of pain at 50.

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There's not really a "problem" leveling with FATEs, not when you can practice your rotation when fighting "boss" FATE mobs. Every time I get a new skill, I think immediately where they fit in my (yet) unfinished rotation and practice it on a mob the first chance I get.

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Originally Posted by Mardel

Until the mechanic happens that requires you to have a head facing you and you can't impulse D;

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Does that happen in T11? They haven't used that mechanic since Demon Wall. If you're forced in front of the mob for a short time then you ID right before it even if your CT/Disembowel may not be off the monster yet, and reapply Heavy Thrust as you move in front if you're restricted from flanking during that time as well (even Demon Wall didn't stop you flanking though). If running back through the monster briefly is an option you can also do that. I've ran THROUGH Titan to apply Impulse Drive during a Landslide before (Usually the opening Landslide of the fight).

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

...
Ninja has a pretty steep learning curve, and if you haven't been practicing good rotations yet, you're in for a lot of pain at 50.

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Ninja isn't really that steep as everyone keeps saying it is when you figure out the pattern behind mudras (Only the last sign matters and you don't do any repeats...), nor are their rotations/uptime any much different than those of a monk (demolish:ToD:DK/SF:mut:DE...and DE being a nonfactor if you have a warrior).

I mean sure it's different, but even when you're doing FATEs its plenty of time to put 2 and 2 together to figure out what your combos are, what your DoTs are, and what your priority should be. The only thing that would take time for a second look is the mudra thing and then it ends up not being complicated as it seems.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

Does that happen in T11? They haven't used that mechanic since Demon Wall. If you're forced in front of the mob for a short time then you ID right before it even if your CT/Disembowel may not be off the monster yet, and reapply Heavy Thrust as you move in front if you're restricted from flanking during that time as well (even Demon Wall didn't stop you flanking though). If running back through the monster briefly is an option you can also do that. I've ran THROUGH Titan to apply Impulse Drive during a Landslide before (Usually the opening Landslide of the fight).

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They did a lot of mechanics to screw over drg in t11. Can't run through boss, you get debuff very nasty one. You get tethered to a person, so you can't go too far or death. You also have to dodge mechanic at the same. Finally most of the damage is magical.

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Originally Posted by Mardel

They did a lot of mechanics to screw over drg in t11. Can't run through boss, you get debuff very nasty one. You get tethered to a person, so you can't go too far or death. You also have to dodge mechanic at the same. Finally most of the damage is magical.

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Tethers are a bane to ALL melee since ranged DPS/heals seem to be allergic to stacking in melee range even if there's no radial AoE damage. It have a constant aura that debuffs you if you run through? Seems weird.