Because apparently, counting in increments of two is too damn hard...

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Originally Posted by Edli

The party wiped several times. It doesn't take a genius to see that was not a farming party so why didn't you leave?
The party wiped over and over again because as you said they didnt know when to pick up orbs. So either leave or lower your standards and help out. It should have been obvious to you they needed help with orbs after the first wipe.

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Because being a rage-quitter is the ends all meets all solution. Why, thanks for helping me I guess.

No Tiggy, my analogy worked just fine. You just don't like it. And I don't intend for us to have the pot call the kettle forever either.


But if you want things to be nailed, let's do it, once and for all : WHO has to actually DO the cleaning of orbs ? It does NOT MATTER WHO CALLS IT. WHO does the ACTUAL CLEANING ? Hint : Not the tank.

Take a deep breath before answering, because once you will realize the answer, that will solve the problem. On its own. Thanks.

You're just trying to justify the fact you didn't help them. You want to push all the blame off and accept no personal responsibility.

The answer is it doesn't matter who cleans the orbs. The tanks need them before cleanup happens. The orbs are 100% the tank swap mechanic in this fight. Stop acting like you have nothing to do with them. It's perfectly reasonable to expect tanks to do call outs. I don't think anyone here would disagree with that assertion except you since you're being defensive about it.

Your analogy fails because it's a store. Oh this place is out of asprin? I guess I'll goto one of the hundred other stores that sell asprin. It's not even remotely the same situation. Though I suppose you could have found a new party.

Hahaha. Well, we don't agree on that, we obviously never will.

I at least never insulted you or implied you don't read my posts. That is what bothers me with your argument, but besides that, no harm done or taken. Have a nice day, Tiggy.

EDIT : Ah, I did say : "Aspirin or equivalent", so my analogy stands, according to what you said. By including "equivalent", I'm expecting AT LEAST offbrands, no ?

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

You're just trying to justify the fact you didn't help them. You want to push all the blame off and accept no personal responsibility.

The answer is it doesn't matter who cleans the orbs. The tanks need them before cleanup happens. The orbs are 100% the tank swap mechanic in this fight. Stop acting like you have nothing to do with them. It's perfectly reasonable to expect tanks to do call outs. I don't think anyone here would disagree with that assertion except you since you're being defensive about it.

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its not reasonable to expect anyone to do call outs. it is nice, but should never be expected. going to explain why;
Tank 1 pulls. lightning strikes shortly after, producing the 1st set of orbs. Tank 2 grabs three(3) and provokes. fight continues. 2nd lightning strike comes out. Tank 2 will still have plenty of time on surge protection, so no tank swap is needed. anyone with a reasonable amount of common sense will think "i should try and clear some of these orbs so Ramuh doesnt do more damage". if no orbs are picked up simply because x-person didnt say anything, then there is a distinct lack of the ability to think for ones self.

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Originally Posted by Evaddaragon

Hahaha. Well, we don't agree on that, we obviously never will.

I at least never insulted you or implied you don't read my posts. That is what bothers me with your argument, but besides that, nor harm done or taken. Have a nice day, Tiggy.

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One thing that is a fact though. The orbs are 100% the tank swap mechanic in this fight. If you continue acting like you shouldn't be involved you're going to continue having a bad time.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

One thing that is a fact though. The orbs are 100% the tank swap mechanic in this fight. If you continue acting like you shouldn't be involved you're going to continue having a bad time.

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The cleanup takes place...AFTER the swap, right ? So, once I've done my swap (which indeed is my responsibility), you're saying it's also my responability to warn them of their cleaning up ? Basically, the party list isn't visible enough for others to see that the swapping took place ?

Yup, what I said. We will never agree on this. ^^

I'm enjoying the arrogance of the op. Has only a few clears, but is expecting perfection...in a PUG.
I've cleared many more times than you have, and know this fight can go from perfect to implosion in one mistake. Phase changes in this fight can be as bad as in T7 if the party has never seen then go wrong and d9es not know how to correct for them. An accidental overcharge by a tank can change the clear/gather schedule and can wipe a party in p3 if it's not called out and corrected for. A natural just barely hitting or missing the chaosed can kill 2 or more in a second, changing swaps depending on who died.

Calling out, through macro or voice, to clear or to not clear is simple and can save a run. Refusing to use all the tools at your disposal only reflects poorly on you.

If you are with your static and are comfortable with no call outs, go ahead. In a PUG with randoms...better safe than sorry.

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Originally Posted by Evaddaragon

The cleanup takes place...AFTER the swap, right ? So, once I've done my swap (which indeed is my responsibility), you're saying it's also my responability to warn them of their cleaning up ? Basically, the party list isn't visible enough for others to see that the swapping took place ?

Yup, what I said. We will never agree on this. ^^

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I think the problem is you actually expect every player to have their eye on you in addition to not murdering one another and keeping up with their own mechanics. I think you honestly expect more from pugs than is realistic. Even in fights where call outs are perfect I've watched the dps and healers murder one another. You're group has be full of exceptional players to manage all of that and keep perfect tabs on the tanks.

Going back to the title "Because apparently, counting in increments of two is too damn hard..." I would say A) Yes for many it is, and B) it's not always increments of 2.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

I'm enjoying the arrogance of the op. Has only a few clears, but is expecting perfection...in a PUG.
I've cleared many more times than you have, and know this fight can go from perfect to implosion in one mistake.

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So it's arrogance ? You assume the actual number of clears we respectively have yet I'm the arrogant one ? Have a nice day, friend.


Honestly though, I have to go back to work. I'll simply take the criticism. That I agree or not on the actual responsibility, it's not complicated to do call outs, so I'll definitely give it a try.

I only hope it won't do like target marking and end up giving situations where it doesn't change squat. LOL

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Originally Posted by Evaddaragon

That I agree or not on the actual responsibility, it's not complicated to do call outs, so I'll definitely give it a try.

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I can live with that. Godspeed.

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Originally Posted by Evaddaragon

I only hope it won't do like target marking and end up giving situations where it doesn't change squat. LOL

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It really doesn't make a difference. I've got a monk friend who will attack anything and when I complain he says "without a mark my fists go where they want." Then I put a mark down and I have to tell him it doesn't seem to matter since they go where they want anyway. The marks rarely seem to help at all.

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

its not reasonable to expect anyone to do call outs. it is nice, but should never be expected. going to explain why;
Tank 1 pulls. lightning strikes shortly after, producing the 1st set of orbs. Tank 2 grabs three(3) and provokes. fight continues. 2nd lightning strike comes out. Tank 2 will still have plenty of time on surge protection, so no tank swap is needed. anyone with a reasonable amount of common sense will think "i should try and clear some of these orbs so Ramuh doesnt do more damage". if no orbs are picked up simply because x-person didnt say anything, then there is a distinct lack of the ability to think for ones self.

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This is how you end up in a situation where people gathered orbs prematurely and the raid wipes since the tanks couldn't buff. I've seen it happen dozens of times even when call outs were happening. This situation requires an excellent group of 8 players who all have near perfect raid and situational awareness. You won't get this in most pugs. In an ideal world sure, but the real world is less than ideal.