Couples geting the shaft on duty roulette

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Originally Posted by Norondor

Roulette DOES take away from people who don't want to queue solo -- the roulette bonus acts as a system of positive feedback to encourage a specific style of play, and one with extremely significant implications on endgame progression! Since people who play with friends instead of doing daily roulettes take a lot longer to cap in terms of real time, solo queueing is not only more attractive, it's more respectful of the time of the game's paying customers. If playing solo gets you heaps of free money and tomes, and if there is NO WAY to get a similar bonus by playing with friends, that is a TACIT PENALTY to people who want to spend time playing games with people they know.

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As far as Myth tomes goes, I will farm them faster by forming a group myself and doing multiple runs 95% of the time compared to Duty roulette. Beyond possibly a lucky roll on an easy Main Scenario roulette, I will pull Philo faster that way also.

So as a result, as opposed to joining the duty finder and chancing an hour run, I'd just wait until some more folks in my FC got on and do 3 runs in that hour. With the bonus for roulette and needed class, I have some incentive to join a random group as opposed to just gathering for 40 minutes for more people to get on. However it's not enough of an incentive for where at some point I'm grouped with FC mates and am like "Later suckers, I gotta go do my duty roulette!"

Now if your runs with friends are taking as long as the average random duty finder group, then the first duty roulette of the day will be more efficient. However if you have a group of people that you commonly run with, I guarantee you will start to form enough synergy where your runs will be 2-3 times faster than the duty finder group on average.

TLDR: The bonus for roulette completion is on average equivalent to running the content twice. Preformed groups are capable of running the same content 2 or more times in the time it would take an average duty finder group to run it.

You and your wife weren't the target audience for who duty roulette is helping. Those queuing with friends from their servers weren't either. If you and your wife don't want to optimize how you help out the community by queuing separately at times then you're free to never compromise and just do all content together all the time. That's fine, but you need to realize you weren't the people who needed help accessing this content to begin with and encouraging people to queue solo has helped tremendously.

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Originally Posted by Yahavage

The thing is, you can still play together, it's called 'using the duty finder and pre-making a party the exact same way you've been doing for the past 4 months'

Duty roulette is there to help people who don't have the same luxury of couples who can drag their other halves around and make them party with them. It's there to benefit people who manage to detach themselves for a modicum of time from their beloveds and help some poor bastard who isn't as fortunate and doesn't have anyone to help them, and it rewards them for this. Wether it be partners or close friends or whatever.

You horrible, self-centred people. You'd think you weren't being allowed to party at all together. Stop twisting because SE tried to help the people who can't as easily go about in couples/small groups.

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Lol k

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Originally Posted by PetiteMalFleur

You and your wife weren't the target audience for who duty roulette is helping. Those queuing with friends from their servers weren't either. If you and your wife don't want to optimize how you help out the community by queuing separately at times then you're free to never compromise and just do all content together all the time. That's fine, but you need to realize you weren't the people who needed help accessing this content to begin with and encouraging people to queue solo has helped tremendously.

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Hi, no. Please go back and consider that there is a high level duty roulette also and that the group of people it is "helping" is actually "every single player in the game." It's a daily log-in bonus. It's literally just a bonus. You'd be sitting in the same queue solo, for no bonus, for just as long without this. The wait for a tank would be just as long without this feature implemented, because exactly the same people who previously logged in and queued as tank to get their 300 myth tomes a week are also going to log in and queue as tank to get their 450 myth tomes a week, just as they did in days of yore, before patch 2.1 and the coming of the prophecied Duty Roulette, to deliver all solo players from evil. Please understand this. Reread the above, until you understand that HIGH LEVEL ROULETTE IS NOT INTENDED TO HELP THOSE POOR POOR SOLO PLAYERS FIND A GROUP.

If they wanted to restrict low-level and main scenario roulette to solo players, so they don't have to put in the extra time to make their group finder work with, you know, groups? Fine! There's no actually defensible reason for it, but whatever. If you're saying that everything you do for post-story progression takes two and a half times longer if you want to play with your friends, who bought the game to play with you in the first place, instead of randoms from another server you'll never talk to again? I will find something else to do with my time, seriously.

The roulette was focused for solo players to queue. Just like CT only allows you to queue a full man party of 8 instead of 24. And yes, the High Level Roulette IS intended to help those poor solo players find a group because it encourages more solo people to queue up. If more tanks queue up, the DF queues DPS and healers faster because more people are getting a party and getting placed into an instance. So now, yes, those tanks who just go online and queue up to get their tomes will continue to do so. But those tanks who got online and create their own groups and run several instances will be encouraged to jump in the queue solo at least once. That will help the DPS and healers with the longer queue times. Personally, my main is a DPS but I have my tank at end game too, and a lot of the times I will just queue up my tank in DF because I know how it sucks to wait for 45 - 60 minutes as a DPS. And I also sometimes will join in on other random queues like Praetorium because it's fun for me but also cause I know people are waiting forever to get that queue up. The roulette is just incentive for solo queuing to help other people who solo queue out. The "in demand" bonus encourages the people who are actually moving the queues (AKA the tanks) to jump in so that more people can get into the dungeons.

The fact of the matter is that right now you can only queue up for roulette as 1 person. If you want to have more than 1 person with you when you queue, then you can't use the roulette. Let's leave it at that because that is just the way the feature is intended to be. There are many other ways you play and dungeons are not the only way for you to level. If you want tomes, you can do SRs which are way faster than a duty roulette. Just because you can't do the option you WANT doesn't mean its bad design or that SE is dumb for restricting it or whatever. Just because my car won't run off of water instead of gas is no reason for me to get pissed at Toyota.

I have played MMOs for a long time myself and I can say that not all MMOs are focused on group play. Many MMOs give people who just want to solo a way or a method or a feature that helps them keep up with other people who are always grouped. The DF is a great example and many features like this for other MMOs where solo people can find a party without having to ask people or shout in cities/towns. The roulette is a feature for the solo player. Are we really getting mad just because we can't do this one feature??? That's like... being at the reception of a wedding and the cake is given out to close friends and family but since you are more of a regular friend or a guest, you don't get a piece, and then you get pissed. I dunno it's early morning and my metaphors are escaping me right now. Anyway, the point I'm making is, let's just let the solo people have this one and just queue up in the DF with your partner like regular.

Ah! Another simple application of opportunity cost, utility, and economics!

Let's examine our two options here: The first is using the DF Roulette to gain extra rewards, we shall value that reward as "X". Our second option is queuing up with friends/family/loved ones, we'll call the value one places on that enjoyment "Y".

If you use DF Roulette, that basically implies that you value X more than you value Y. If choose to only queue with your partner/friend/FC-mate, you value Y more than X. Pretty simple. The reason why the OP and her supporters have a flawed view of this situation is that they are simply not examining their opportunity costs and the rewards.

SE implemented this optional feature in order to incentivize people like the OP to split up and help out their fellow player. It is, in essence, a re-distribution of utility, in that you are incentivized with tomes/xp/etc to give up some enjoyment, so that another player can have some enjoyment. i.e. the person that was waiting in queue for hours because no one wants to do Ifrit SM anymore. The options are clear and you must make a decision: You can either give up some enjoyment to be more competitively equipped, or you can give up (potentially, based on play-time and caps) some rewards to have more enjoyment. It's perfectly fair and reasonable, you just don't like that you cannot have both. The only reason the rewards exist is to compensate you for your lost utility or enjoyment of going with your friends. There are no free lunches.

Additionally, I think you will find that gaming with people other than your spouse is actually MORE social than gaming exclusively with your spouse. If you define being sociable like Webster's does, "willing to talk and engage in activities with other people; friendly," then only playing with a select few people is actually anti-social. Your argument still exists, just at the opposite end of the spectrum, which you may have spun that way because someone appealing for more social aspects removes you from the "hard-core" community, and makes you more endearing to your audience.

Jus' sayin' - its pretty simple - you get a reward for giving up something you like. If you don't give up something you like, you don't get the reward.

BTW - it's actually extremely assumptive and rude to assume that those who are not married or who do not choose to exclusively play the game with one other person aren't giving anything up by using DF Roulette. I have many friends that play the game that I would obviously prefer to be playing with if I can help it. You are throwing a hissy fit because you are placing an extremely high value on something other people don't value as much. If you stop feeling like you are cheated and start realizing that you can't have it all, you might be a happier person.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

shut up

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Or; you could stop trying to insult other people/score cheap rhetorical points/be a useless pedant and consider whether or not making players agonize over whether it is worth playing with friends is a good idea in the first place, you clown

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Originally Posted by Norondor

Or; you could stop trying to insult other people/score cheap rhetorical points/be a useless pedant and consider whether or not making players agonize over whether it is worth playing with friends is a good idea in the first place, you clown

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I will address your myriad concerns, which were actually laid out quite succinctly, in order:

1) I truly was not trying to be insulting, rather, objective. Don't take things so personally.
2) If I could redeem points for rhetoric, damn right I would attempt to get them as cheap as possible.
3) Pedant? Maybe slightly. Useless? How so? Did I not make valid arguments?
4) No one is forcing you to agonize. "Whether its worth playing with friends is a good idea..." Rather than what? You didn't finish your question. I shall consider what I assume to be your point, which is, is the cost of forcing players to make that decision worth the decreased queue times for other players? I could not possibly quantify the answer with any empirical data, but I would venture a "yes" as my personal opinion, based on what I have seen. My queue times as DPS, and for helping my friend finish his story mission the other night were dramatically less.

I think SE probably did consider that, and they thought, "Yes, forcing those people who play as a couple exclusively to make a decision about whether to gain a bonus or play together is worth making all of the rest of my customers happier with decreased waiting times for their content."

Point considered. I think its your turn to call me another name.

i like to help people i know level low level jobs, i don't mind that i get nothing, i was doing this before Roulette even existed.

it's a shame they can't party with me so they can get the Roulette bonuses. and i don't even care about Philosophy (already working on sets for jobs that i basically never play).

there's no good reason why they don't enable this for two people, those two will still be helping two others.

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Originally Posted by Norondor

Lol k

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There's me told!

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Originally Posted by Norondor

HIGH LEVEL ROULETTE IS NOT INTENDED TO HELP THOSE POOR POOR SOLO PLAYERS FIND A GROUP.

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I think you'll find it is designed to help solo players get groups. That is, in fact, exactly what it is designed for. It's distributing high-level players into RANDOM CONTENT to do. RANDOM. ONCE PER DAY. It is therefore, not designed, to give high level players a boost, by playing with their friends. If it was designed to do that, do you not think, that the bonus would come from entering the duty while partied up with someone? I mean if you think about it that would make sense right? But seeing as you get the boost by going in alone, do you not think that it is the point really? To help other people get out of their queues a bit quicker?

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Originally Posted by Norondor

Or; you could stop trying to insult other people/score cheap rhetorical points/be a useless pedant and consider whether or not making players agonize over whether it is worth playing with friends is a good idea in the first place, you clown

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Again, what are we agonizing over?

Choice 1:
Do a dungeon with friends for a 30 - 50 myth reward in a predictable time frame and guaranteed success.

Choice 2:
Do a dungeon with random people for a 70 - 90 myth reward in an unpredictable time frame and chance of success.

If I have friends on, I'm ALWAYS going to choose choice 1. Not only do I get to group with my friends, but I also know exactly what I'm getting into. In my case, the speed of completion is actually going to make this MORE efficient than doing duty roulette.

If I don't have friends on, I may choose choice 2. Before the bonus I rarely went this route, I'd just wait until some people in my FC logged on and would go do some solo activity till then. This bonus serves as an incentive for me to run with random people on my tank or healer and provide 3 other people waiting in the queue with a group.