Character graphical changes are NOT in an acceptable state, please make it optional

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

This raises an interesting thought. If you and someone else have the same character look, and you perceive it negatively while they perceive it positively, who is correct? Who do the developers listen to?

I'm not saying you're wrong or even referring to you specifically, I'm just thinking about being in the dev's shoes and it seems like quite a pickle. How do you design around individual perception, which is different for every one of the millions of people playing the game?

I certainly don't envy being in their position.

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I've been thinking about this ever since I've noticed the outpouring of feedback.
Poor Intern-kun that has to comb the forums and choose what to pass onto the devs must be going bald by this point.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

im actually so curious how the exact same expression (esp the eyebrows) look so different to you, if it wasnt for ew horns being way worse i actually wouldnt be able to tell a difference.

Fascinating

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The eye brows are fine actually. I agree that they in particular are the same. So I need to clarify again: I did exaggerate the features based on the "soul" of the sum of the face, if that makes sense. But that exaggeration was not done to mislead and say "those features objectively look like that".
It was to show how, from an artistic perspective, I'd capture her essence. Like when a caricaturist can take a rather neutral feature and warp it in one or the other direction in order to emphasise certain (character) traits.

For me the biggest issue is the mouth and the puffed up cheeks and how they affect the "sum" of the face. The eyes are also slightly softer, esp. because of the thicker eye lashes and the bigger pupils (the old ones are smaller and lead to more of a stare), but not much (I can live with the eyes).

But the mouth has gone from, what to me looks rather skeptical and non-smiling, to a gently smiling puckered doll-ish mouth. The lips used to be rather convex, now they are concave.

I can only really use the make-up example again: Depending on how you put make-up on the same lips you can create a completely different effect. A person/their mouth might look like a completely different feature. (E.g., K-Pop gradient lips vs. overlining matte lips or sth.).

The eyes can't counter the effect of the mouth for me, so now she's even more milque-toast. Probably even eats cookies for breakfast. :/

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Originally Posted by Doopliss

The artwork by Loggos is indeed one subjective interpretation. However, I said this in another thread--I can't even remember which anymore, I really need to take another break from the forums after this--but artists regularly work within their restrictions, not against them. Square Enix is full of professional character designers, and the art team working on the original impression of the faces absolutely knew what they were doing. Do you think they chose to design Sadu with this face accidentally? I'm sorry, again, if this sounds like an attack. I only wish people wouldn't readily discredit artist intention so easily when it's on something they perceive as old. I just personally don't think, for example, the people who carefully crafted the delicate lip shapes and other features of male Viera truly believe the curves, corners, and edges that make those up getting sanded down was actually their true intention after all. More people interpret things correctly than one might think, even subconsciously.

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No worries I know things can get fraught and people are emotionally on edge because it's a big change! I'm not trying to discredit artist intention or anything like that! Like I said I prefer severe faces and actively try to seek out those options whenever possible. Because of this I'm probably more discerning over what I consider severe enough and the Aura fem faces to me have never expressed that strongly enough. If it had been me doing the upscaling, I would have leant more into the severe look as per Loggo's illustration because I look for and enjoy those aspects, along with making the eyebrows slightly more angular and reducing pupil size would be a good starting point , likewise using this face for Sadu is the obvious choice. I understand the intention I just disagree to the extent of the execution. Sadu's characterization and animations do a lot of the heavy lifting so I'm curious to see how much the new facebones help with expressions and mitigating that placid vacant look.

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Originally Posted by Roda

I think she's missing more developed lats to smooth things out?

https://www.whitneyerd.com/wp-conten...uscle-back.png
I noticed similar weirdness on Karlach in bg3 whose shoulder area often looked rather pinched as well and it was 'cause she didn't have that muscle peeking out from behind her arm when she raised it.

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I actually think their shoulders should be placed differently, lower than they are now. I agree with the author in this post where I got the picture from

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...3efe19138e3ff&

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

This raises an interesting thought. If you and someone else have the same character look, and you perceive it negatively while they perceive it positively, who is correct? Who do the developers listen to?

I'm not saying you're wrong or even referring to you specifically, I'm just thinking about being in the dev's shoes and it seems like quite a pickle. How do you design around individual perception, which is different for every one of the millions of people playing the game?

I certainly don't envy being in their position right now. lol

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No one would be right or wrong there, but it is exactly why it was important to carefully preserve the existing feature sets. And present all alterations as optional features, not changing the bases. Otherwise they are robbing people of characters they might have known for years in exchange for something new, people just found out they actually like more.
There should not have been such a choice to begin with. It’s rather sad.

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Originally Posted by AirisRay

Thank you both very much! :) This means a lot to me :)

It didn't upset me. When dozens of people tell me how beautiful she is, when her pictures really get a lot of positive feedback, how can I even think about paying attention to an angry and not very smart person? :) No way.
But I'm incredibly happy to see your support <3

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of course! Your character is BEAUTIFUL to me and I am with you all the way in not being happy with the changes! Stand by your beliefs always and don't let forum trolls try to gaslight you, even going so far as to tell you to unsub. Unbelievable to me.

I'll be honest...I do still genuinely wonder why these things are weighed the same? I hate arguing about this sort of thing, because I know it never ends up well--but, if I'm allowed to be a little more blunt with my thoughts, I don't understand why people who prefer the new look should be given the same weight as those who prefer the old ones? I don't mean this dismissively, I say this because my reasoning is:
1. Nobody has gotten to actually play with the new looks yet.
2. People who prefer the new looks, I assume--hope?--made and currently play characters they enjoy the looks of.

This is of course, me thinking with the resolution them being fixing the features so that they're in line with what they look like now. Not like, reverting the graphics update...which I still honestly haven't seen many people actually call for.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

This raises an interesting thought. If you and someone else have the same character look, and you perceive it negatively while they perceive it positively, who is correct? Who do the developers listen to?

I'm not saying you're wrong or even referring to you specifically, I'm just thinking about being in the dev's shoes and it seems like quite a pickle. How do you design around individual perception, which is different for every one of the millions of people playing the game?

I certainly don't envy being in their position right now. lol

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That is a very good point and I'd say (in an ideal world where it would be possible): don't put away with old options but keep the new ones too. Like this players who prefer their old look are happy and people who prefer the upgrade are happy.

From a realistic business point though I do think it's a risky move to actively resculpt certain features that have always been there and that, in a character driven game, players have grown attached to. I can totally live with the lighting changes and how it would affect my char. But I see no reason to go out of their way and completely alter established features. So many people love m!viera face 3's mouth for example. So is it a good decision to resculpt it? Or would it be better to keep something so beloved and add more options (since the new mouth has now already been created anyway).

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Originally Posted by SongOfTheWind

No one would be right or wrong there, but it is exactly why it was important to carefully preserve the existing feature sets. And present all alterations as optional features, not changing the bases. Otherwise they are robbing people of characters they might have known for years in exchange for something new people just found out they actually like more.
There should not have been such a choice to begin with. It’s rather sad.

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You said it better but by that point I had already posted haha. I completely agree!

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

This raises an interesting thought. If you and someone else have the same character look, and you perceive it negatively while they perceive it positively, who is correct? Who do the developers listen to?

I'm not saying you're wrong or even referring to you specifically, I'm just thinking about being in the dev's shoes and it seems like quite a pickle. How do you design around individual perception, which is different for every one of the millions of people playing the game?

I certainly don't envy being in their position right now. lol

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I said the exact same thing, not word by word ofc a day or two ago.
It's natural that people react on the emotions that effects themselves.
But there's always more sides than just one to a story.

In the end, I think that feedback is what can be done right now.
But in the end it's up to the developers.
It's their game and they have a vision for it.
If they can make changes to appease people and it's possible for them to do so then sure.
But if they can't I just hope that people can accept it and do the best of the situation and not keep on complaining for months or more once things are done and final.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

This raises an interesting thought. If you and someone else have the same character look, and you perceive it negatively while they perceive it positively, who is correct? Who do the developers listen to?

I'm not saying you're wrong or even referring to you specifically, I'm just thinking about being in the dev's shoes and it seems like quite a pickle. How do you design around individual perception, which is different for every one of the millions of people playing the game?

I certainly don't envy being in their position right now. lol

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sorry to interfere, but if perception is such a subjective thing and there is a very fine line between like and not, then maybe developers shouldn't change what people like, but add new faces, hairstyles, fangs and a lot of other cool things as a new feature, I mean face 7, lips 8, and not to change what people have loved for years, and then try to please everyone * which of course will not work*. And for existing models, just add HD textures. Of course, this is only if it is possible * because they could have rewritten the animation engine itself and therefore redesigned the textures properly. Just add new character types that the developers want to make for us, but also let us use the old ones that still look amazing in my opinion!