The Ninja Superthread

People do put far too much emphasis on it, but it can still be a systematic 1 or 2 percent out of your GCD rotation. That's pretty significant.

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Originally Posted by Odowla

Then don't be happy with it, but understand why it's in place. It would be SO easy to make a script that would just send raiton or w/e mudra you want, and it can't be capped on the server-side or you get a worse problem where the server just decides to tell you no and then you drop huton, gg your dps.


I just feel like acting like its the end-all to Ninja DPS and the whole reason Chloro Cradle does his rediculous numbers is completely and 100% on his lack of mudra delay instead of, i don't know, maybe being skilled and having a really good gearset is the wrong way to think of it. As someone who is in a quite high-level guild and who gets messages/tells all the time i do dedicate a lot of my to knowing the class and understand the deep-down reasoning for certain openers and skill usages that I'm pretty sure It can only come down to gear at this high level of thinking.

I've narrowed it down to the reason i don't get his numbers, optimized strats aside is basically just my gearset, and to a smaller extent, the fact my mudras do have a slight delay. I get 14 mudras in the 5 second window on a good day, he gets 15 mudras, that's barely noticeable. It's coming down to a shitty gearset at this point, though there's not much else I can do unless i feel like buying some crafted pieces and dropping millions on melds just for "dat parse". I'm not trying to say i'm the best or anything like that at all; I'm just saying that once you know your 1 2 3 4 5 6 rotation, your ninjutsu priority, and how do deal with mechanics optimally, it literally comes down to partly lag ( minimally) and largely your gearset. There's nothing else to the classes in this game when you talk about it at a high level like this.

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When a mudra is used it would still go on cooldown. Just because you can request the server to do something 100 times does not mean it will do it 100 times. There is still animation delays and cooldowns, in this instance 20 seconds.

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

People do put far too much emphasis on it, but it can still be a systematic 1 or 2 percent out of your GCD rotation. That's pretty significant.

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On average I lose 2 GCD for each Huton and Suiton. So 4 GCD/min if I'm lucky. I can't use Raiton over Fuma ever. The loss of that many skills causes my rotation to not be ideal.
If I end up with Hyoton over Huton due to the lag. (Huton is registered but Hyoton goes off instead) then I lose a ton of damage for those 20s or waste Kassatsu.

On average I am losing anywhere between 60-75 DPS just on missing skills from a delayed GCD. ~1400 Potency/min.

So around 15% of my damage.

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@ Odowla

So in on a perfect (for me) run, I am losing 15% of my damage right off the top, so IMO I don't feel it's being exaggerated at all.

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I just feel like acting like its the end-all to Ninja DPS and the whole reason Chloro Cradle does his rediculous numbers is completely and 100% on his lack of mudra delay instead

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It's not the only factor, no. But it is a large portion. I am sure there are others that are just as skilled that are unable to pull those numbers, simply due to Mudra Delay.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

When a mudra is used it would still go on cooldown. Just because you can request the server to do something 100 times does not mean it will do it 100 times. There is still animation delays and cooldowns, in this instance 20 seconds.

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No, if you limit it like that there's a chance the server really can just tell you no you've already done that. That's the problem with a "it just goes on cooldown". Kassatsu wouldn't work either.

@ Xero... that's a lot of mudra delay, enough that you'd do sub-optimal damage on every class. I feel like you're exagerating, or could heavily benefit from the use of a vpn or something for everything else (not even talking about mudras).

It's not really a large portion >_> it seems liek you just have really high latency in general, like, rediculously high latency, and it would affect more than just ninja.

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Originally Posted by Odowla

No, if you limit it like that there's a chance the server really can just tell you no you've already done that. That's the problem with a "it just goes on cooldown". Kassatsu wouldn't work either.

@ Xero... that's a lot of mudra delay, enough that you'd do sub-optimal damage on every class. I feel like you're exagerating, or could heavily benefit from the use of a vpn or something for everything else (not even talking about mudras).

It's not really a large portion >_> it seems liek you just have really high latency in general, like, rediculously high latency, and it would affect more than just ninja.

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Not really, the mudra skill would still have to request server side activation. I think you are missing the point of what is wanted. we want jin, ten and chi client side, with the activation skill server side. Please stop making assumptions, it is a large portion of NINs who have this issue and I have 100ms on average.

Guys, at the end of the day SE said they were looking into it at the very least. So theres that.

Switch classes if it bothers you that much.

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Originally Posted by KroLeXz

This latency on battleping

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJZ1y6oQOCw

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The actual number timer on you abilities counting down... how do I get that?!?! Not the spell timers plug-in to clarify.

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Originally Posted by PROBOUND

Guys, at the end of the day SE said they were looking into it at the very least. So theres that.

Switch classes if it bothers you that much.

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I like the class too much to let a problem like that go.

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Originally Posted by Odowla

@ Xero... that's a lot of mudra delay, enough that you'd do sub-optimal damage on every class. I feel like you're exagerating, or could heavily benefit from the use of a vpn or something for everything else (not even talking about mudras).

It's not really a large portion >_> it seems liek you just have really high latency in general, like, rediculously high latency, and it would affect more than just ninja.

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It's funny because I only have around 25ms latency. I live 4 hours from the NA Server. TBH I'm not sure what it is that makes my Mudras so bad. Without a VPN each Mudra command is a full GCD. I've tried both PingZapper and WTF Fast which makes it at least bearable, but still not ideal, especially in Coils.

I wish I was exaggerating. The only issue I have on any other class, is that a CD may not go off and I will have to click it again (Fester, RS, B4B etc). For NIN, that means Rabbit + lost GCD. My damage on other classes is great, NIN is the only class that screws you due to this.

Which is too bad since it's otherwise a very fun job to play. Many people experience the same issue to some degree, and thus the reason for requesting the change to the way Mudras work.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Wow. Your Raiton is faster than my Fuma even when I use WTFfast.

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This was not me exaggerating either. I know how long 0.5s is, and that is not how Mudras work for a lot of people, and no... I'm not trying to use my Mudras near the end of a GCD and then complaining that they take too long. I'm pretty proficient at CD weaving, but I could see that being an issue for some people, due to the reaction time of going from a GCD skill to Mudras.

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One thing that is very interesting is that if I use a VPN to connect to a JP site - my Mudras are incredibly fast, I just have to deal with 500ms Ping.

3.0 can't come soon enough.

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Originally Posted by 2jays2day

The actual number timer on you abilities counting down... how do I get that?!?! Not the spell timers plug-in to clarify.

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I'm curious about this myself. Kro's Timers are sweet. Can anyone post a link to the specific plugin?