Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

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Originally Posted by lulunami

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Come on! Forum Fantasy is all we have until Stormblood drops.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

This is the moment where you confirm that you are completely incapable of comprehending reality. To claim that a GM's statement takes precedence over the literal game director's statement... whew buddy.

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One is quoting rules and the other is stating an opinion.

Rules > Opinion no matter who's Opinion that is, if his Opinion is so powerful why is it not within the rules?

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Originally Posted by TamurilRains

I value my time enough to notice a lost cause when I see one, I'm bored now. Enjoy your God complex.

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Lmao. Me: "I don't feel compelled to carry someone through a dungeon who could be afk for 90% of it and nobody would notice."

You: "Get a load of Goddy McGodface over here, thinks they're such a badass because they expect people who willfully enter a group scenario to push some buttons!"

Guilty, I guess?

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

To oversimplify, you (as well as the others) are cherrypicking.

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Eh, not really. The current argument in discussion is whether or not you can kick a Healer for not DPS'ing. A GM has stated that kicking for a difference in play style is a legitimate reason. Healers DPS'ing or not DPS'ing are different play styles. The context of the image is in response to the lack of a difference in play style option in the kick menu so we aren't ignoring it as it should already be included in the context. I don't see how we are cherry picking by using this. It is a rather straight forward official statement.

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Originally Posted by Alysrea

My only point in this whole discussion is I want people to try, try your best to contribute what you can if you have the tools I want you to use them, if me and the rest of the party are all in agreement that a refusal to use the tools of your job (in this case the DPS spells) is a detriment to our decided strategy then I would vote to kick you and in the terms of service I am allowed to do so,

I don't think not wanting to play with people who are Refusing to contribute more than a very basic minimum is a bad attitude, I do not enjoy mediocrity especially when teammates are expressing a desire for someone to do more.

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If you do not enjoy mediocrity, then stay away from random matching, besides the fact that this kind of elitist attitude is absolutely ridiculous in 99% of the content of this game, which defining "relaxed" is an euphemism.

I do not enjoy being mediocre, so I always give my personal best, but one thing is for sure: If I see a DPS initiate a vote to kick a healer because he or she is focusing on healing, not only I'll decline, but I'll immediately initiate a vote kick for that DPS. They're a lot easier to replace anyway (and it'll only get easier with Stormblood), and this kind of crappy attitude definitely qualifies as "difference of playstyle."

Haven't read any of the thread yet, but I will go back and read it.


Lazy player argument.

Every player should try and spend every gcd on a skill useful for the group.


The content design in this game doesn't require healing fulltime, there will be healing downtime.



Keeping your party safe should be a very high priority for a healer.
But, after that there's nothing else to do but spend those gcd's on damage.

If we compare healers and other classes...
A healer who only has to heal every 6~10 seconds and refuses to do damage in the meantime is equivalanet to another class using a skill every 3rd or 4th gcd.

This is not parity.
This is laziness.




A quote on that subject.

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Originally Posted by Taika

Yesterday I did some testing on how it really is like to only heal in expert roulette, which I think is a good example because it's content probably ran by majority of player base this discussion is relevant to.

I queued to expert roulette as WHM and we got Xelpathol. In addition to me, the party consisted of a WAR who had never tanked the dungeon before (no endgame experience as WAR), a BLM (his Savage job, currently on A11S progression), and a DRG (no endgame experience as DRG). So quite a random party composition with people more or less familiar with their roles in that dungeon.

The WAR pulled as much as he could at the time (not knowing the dungeon as tank he failed this a couple of times) and I would only use my healing abilities. This was the result, my every single heal cast for the whole 21 min dungeon run:

- Regen x24
- Medica II x16
- Asylum x7
- Assize x4
- Cure II x5 (between pulls, not during them)
- Tetra x4

So in addition to Medica II, the only thing I actually had to cast in the whole dungeon was Cure II, which I did a total of 5 times (between pulls, not during them). Everything else was instant cast abilities. I also used Eye for an Eye on tank and sometimes Esuna, and I cast stoneskin on everyone between pulls.

Even with this little use of healing, my overheal was 35,9%, so the actual healing requirements for this dungeon are even lower. I was active 17% of the whole dungeon while the rest of my group members were active 72-77% of the dungeon.

This is a perfect example of the low healing requirements in the game and how it causes a huge activity difference between a healer who doesn't DPS and their group members. On that run I did not contribute nearly as much as my group members, in fact I was using /icam and doing /mandervilledance while they were actually making an effort. If it would have been the tank or a DD only being active 17% of the time and dancing and idling for the rest, they would have been removed from the party, but for me, some people would actually argue I was doing just fine.

I took a video of the whole run and uploaded it in case someone's interested. This is the final boss fight, during which the only things I actually cast were 3 Medica IIs. Other than that, I used Regen (4), Assize (2) and Asylum (2). Here's the direct link to the fight: https://youtu.be/jBgMe5uHPsE?t=17m17s

TLDR: Not DPSing as a healer means you're just being carried by your group members for over 80% of the dungeon time.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

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I think the vast majority of players are completely fine with people doing their "personal best."

I just don't believe for a moment that someone is doing their personal best if they pop a regen on the tank and then proceed to do the Vanu dance until all of the trash is dead.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

This is the moment where you confirm that you are completely incapable of comprehending reality. To claim that a GM's statement takes precedence over the literal game director's statement... whew buddy.

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More personal attacks. =w=

Yoshi-P's statement is about Healer DPS not being mandatory, while the GM is stating that it is not against the game's rules to vote kick someone for difference in gameplay.
You're trying to use the implication that because Yoshi-P says it's not mandatory that we, as a group, can't vote kick someone because of it, which is a very loose arguement.
No where in Yoshi-P's statement does it say that you can't vote kick people for for differences in gameplay. Further more, it is not Yoshi-P's job to interpret and act on the game's rules, that's the GM's. Hell, Yoshi-P probably doesn't have any say on the ToS.

I have to agree with lulunami's use of Einstein's quote at this point, you're hopeless. ♥

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Originally Posted by Abriael

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I edited my original post before you quoted that may change your opinion, please take a moment to read what was added
"And mind you, if within a party my opinion is the minority I have no problem letting things continue as that would be the decided strategy of the majority of the party."

My argument is more for the majority of the groups ideal strategy to take place, I have strong opinions on what that strategy should involve but the same way I think that One healers opinion isn't greater than the 3/7 other people they are paying with my opinion is also not greater than the 3/7 other people I would be playing with, If everyone agrees the healer can afk between heals than If I don't like it I should leave.
It's a democracy not a dictatorship that's why we have a VOTE to kick.

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Originally Posted by missybee

I think the vast majority of players are completely fine with people doing their "personal best."

I just don't believe for a moment that someone is doing their personal best if they pop a regen on the tank and then proceed to do the Vanu dance until all of the trash is dead.

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Unless the content is extramely difficult (and if it is, I don't go with randoms), I don't make it my business to judge the people randomly matched with me as long as I am doing my best and the content is being completed.

I don't know people's circumstances. For what I know, they could have an impairment, or quite simply they could jus be another dude who worked 14 hours (which is something I intimately understand) and at long last is just taking it easy playing an easy role in an easy game.