I think I stated the most desirable I thought in this thread a few days ago, or maybe a week ago, but the first and last are the ones I'd want the most out of the remaining shared hairs. I'll just leave the ones I mean quoted. I already know the last one can look very good on viera, from *cough* certain images I may have seen on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caro178
VIERA AND HROTHGAR COMPLAINT MEGATHREAD
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01-17-2023, 09:08 AMSturmChurro
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01-17-2023, 09:21 AMRokkeYeah, I know a friend of a friend that won it and used to be a miqo. Not a whole lot of people have it so I guess I can see why its lower priority, but its such a cool prize I hope that everyone gets to enjoy it x3Quote:
Originally Posted by Caro178
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01-17-2023, 09:32 AMCaro178Yeah, absolutely. Even as one of those few I want it to be one of the last hairstyles ported to Viera because there are so many others that deserve to be much higher priority. I wouldn't even care if it was actually dead last, lmao.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokke
All in all, I think the team has done a decent job choosing which hairstyles to port first with the exception of the very first batch which was disappointing and felt very catered to Japanese players (2B, Lightning.) Since then each patch has included styles from a good mix of sources and it even seems like they've prioritized recent additions and Moogle tome rewards. A few from the saucer, from the pvp shop, from the Firmament, etc. They have disregarded the Mogstation a bit, but as they wind down the remaining Modern Aesthetics they'll have no choice but to focus more on the shop styles. -
01-17-2023, 09:59 AMXianRoPersonally Hrothgar should get Windcaller before viera. We're the race of bozja. Its obtained from the bozjan southern front. Come on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caro178
Why do we have to be two patch cycles behind Gods Chosen Race? Doesnt that irritate anyone else? It CAN NOT be this hard to bring hrothgar up to snuff with pretty hyur no.7, it just cant.
I know no hrothgar will be happy to see viera get Windcaller in 6.4. Because that means we have to wait til MAYBE 7.0 launch, and thats a big maybe because god knows we'll get some lame "oh ooooh oh goodness, oh gracious. We couldnt work on a race thats been here since 2019 because we had to make female hrothgar for 7.0 and we had to give viera 27 new hairstyles in 6.58 and we had to reuse the Idyllshire gear for the 5th time as lv94 levelling gear ooooh its so hard guys, you have to wait til 7.3 to get more updates. Also you still cant use your racial hair regardless of facetype because we had to make middy hyur no.7 for the new expac". -
01-17-2023, 10:19 AMCaro178
Pretty sure you'd have a hard time locating a Viera player who wouldn't be 200% fine with Hrothgar getting Windcaller first. Nobody is throwing cotton balls at SE headquarters and cursing them if they dare release Windcaller on Hrothgar before Viera. I'm just being realistic and taking into account the patch history and patterns that have become apparent concerning Viera, Hrothgar and hairstyle ports. XIV devs are predictable above all else when it comes to patch cycles. Like you said, Hrothgar will get everything male Viera got 2 patches (8 months) down the line. Of course, it was supposed to be 4 months, but that was with SE's utterly perplexing decision to cut off ears, which it took them a whole extra patch to rectify. Yes, it was very cringe and I understand why you're still upset, but it isn't Viera or Viera players making decisions.
Wanna point a finger somewhere remember there are 7 other races that can already use Windcaller, and have been able to for over two years. You know, the real God's Chosen Races: the races that can wear every piece of headgear, every hairstyle and never have to question whether or not a reward is going to function on them. -
01-17-2023, 10:21 AMXianRo
Like I don't mean to complain (in the forum thread entitled COMPLAINT) but god.
Its bad enough hrothgar didnt get jack nor diddly for the release of Endwalker, but we're two patches behind viera, for no reason. "Oh well they had to fix ears" yeah, HAD because nobody who isnt braindead could possibly accept the dumpster fire that was the 6.1 update. Which, apart from being viera handmedowns, only 1 style was even mildly acceptable (snows), and it cost extra money to own.
They very, very easily could have ALSO given hrothgar the updated hair viera got in 6.1 and we'd be only 1 patch behind but oh no. Thats too much. Thats a step too far. Hrothgar would have to unbelievably mean and selfish to ask for 2 updates! It STAGGERS the mind frankly, that paying customers who've had nothing for 3 years (on top of being the only race that has to buy fantasia to alter their hair, an unimaginably stupid thing Yoshi P has never apologized for, much less updated hrothgar at any point in shb to use their own racial hair despite bozja npcs having nonfacelocked hair) wouldn't be happy being 2 patches behind, a fact which means any fun new things viera get in 6.4 or.5 may as well not exist, because hrothgar wont see either til sometime, maybe, if god deigns smile upon us, ANOTHER expansion later. Like its just wildly, stupidly unfair to hrothgar players, and what I want is a REAL update in 6.4 I want every single hair viera got and will recieve in 6.4. I want our races to be equals, because they were both released in 5.0. I dont think thats asking for the moon really. I feel like its a reasonable expectation from a game that makes 27M subs worth of money plus god only knows what in cash shop sales a month. -
01-17-2023, 10:27 AMXianRoLol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caro178
I kid ofc but I call viera gods chosen races because its really hard to not feel that way.
Viera get a nice sexy important showing in the shb trailer (they didnt intro hrothgar til after but..ok? they couldnt put ONE in the trailer bc??????), viera got to use all their hairs without buying fanta, viera get hair updates on 6.0 release, viera get an npc with an actual role in the ew msq, and the past couple events have been vieracentric. Like we get it. They're you're fave new toy devs! You've never once used a hrothgar in any event in 3 years WE GET IT!! -
01-17-2023, 11:15 AMCaro178
Also "pretty Hyur #7?" Viera have existed since the early 2000s Final Fantasy Tactics games, appeared by the same name in a mainline title and are among Final Fantasy's most recognizable and loved races. They deserved a spot in XIV as much as any other race. I understand it's frustrating, but Viera are not taking anything away from Hrother. At this point I know I'm just a broken record repeating myself, but I would be perfectly fine with the devs skipping 6.4's Viera update in favour of making sure Hrothgar are caught up. I said the same thing in before 6.2 and 6.3. Unfortunately it's not me making decisions. Updates are just part of some kind of "to-do" list that specifies porting 6 hairstyles and any new-to-everyone ones for both races with Hroth 2 patches behind.
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01-17-2023, 11:19 AMSassyAssassin
We all understand your frustration Xian and the majority of us (if not all of us actually) agree you should get the most attention if not all attention in the next patch, I am thankful they gave us extra hairs but I truly wish the same for you and personally I would have been ok with getting less if that meant you would get equal.
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01-17-2023, 11:30 AMXianRo
In spite of my meteion levels of negativity Hrothgar (unless the devs royally screw over hrothgar AGAIN between now and 7.0) have gotten/will get 2/3 of my top wanted hair options in Endwalker.
We got Rainmaker this patch and SHOULD get Styled in 6.5 since viera got it this patch.
All I want is Windcaller left. Id love to get it same time viera do. They HAVE to know hrothgar want windcaller most of all, put hrothgar windcaller into google and theres like a dozen modded screens of hrothgar wearing it first thing.
Do any viera hair trackers have ideas what they'll slap on your heads in 6.4? If no windcaller I would like Gyr Abania.
(There really arent many good MA options left at this point. The discount Hien men can use in character creation is one of few "generic" hairs I like but the Character Creation hair options seem really random to me). -
01-17-2023, 01:21 PMCaro178We've had a good idea with base game hairstyles because they're organized in an established list from oldest to newest on every other race. This lets us make a pretty educated guesstimate every patch cycle which hairstyles will be added next for Viera because they need to match all the other lists. Modern Aesthetics styles have seemingly been chosen at random without any rhyme or reason. The only maybe-pattern I've noticed is they have consistently added a hairstyle from the Gold Saucer every single patch, and that could just be a coincidence because a number of styles are exclusive to the Saucer.Quote:
Originally Posted by XianRo
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01-17-2023, 03:24 PMDuskane
honestly just waiting on all the characte hair styles
Yshtola,Thancred,Noctis,cloud etc etc not sure why these are not priority. -
01-17-2023, 03:44 PMKazharMost players don't own them. Especially Viera and Hrothgar players, who probably didn't get out of their way to acquire hairstyles they couldn't use. If their pipeline only allows them a few hairstyles per patch, it makes sense not to focus on those that can't be acquired anymore (Noctis), those that very few people ever got (Cloud), or those that require you to pay IRL money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskane
I think their current implementation (having one or two character hairstyle each patch) is a good compromise. -
01-17-2023, 08:50 PMCaro178My best guess is they haven't been the top priority because they're the least owned hairstyles in the game. They had a few potential methods of prioritizing which hairstyles became available first, and they clearly close to focus on styles that were a) owned by a large % of players, b) popular.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskane
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fmq_oYfW...g&name=900x900
We've discussed this and we tend to have differing opinions all around. Some would have preferred that they focus Mogstation purchases first so people who have already purchased them would get their money's worth sooner, others feel it would have come across as predatory to relegate most of the new Viera hairstyles to the real money shop. -
01-18-2023, 12:26 AMVerdeLuckI'd want the cloud one to be near the end since I can't use it regardless. It's locked to contest winners only, so the number of contest winners who pick the cloud hair style and also play viera seems like it'd be super small.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskane
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01-18-2023, 05:44 AMMidareyukkiSorry to dig this back up, but it's actually worse than Pip mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yencat
Because one thing is tearing and having weird texture warping. Which it can do, because Roegadyn gear is already stretched out and warped, so add in awkard poses and you get yourself a recipe for weirdness.
Another thing is weird animations having to adjust themselves for this. I know there's other such examples people have pointed out before. But the worst one is definitely in MCH. Their autoattacks are very clearly using a Roegadyn model, but then they have to go back to being hunched over. And unfortunately, this isn't done right. It's not seamless. You just akwardly snap your spine! Like you go from being totally "fine" to jolting your spine to match the hunchback.
imo this is perfectly doable. Charr, for example, have a hunchback. Except... it works better on Charrs because they're specifically done to be animalistic. The way Hrothgar hunchback is designed is quite jarring, not because it in itself is bad, but because it leads to really awkward poses without proper justification (the remainder of their design isn't done to justify the hunchback, and it's even worse when the rest of the game doesn't acknowledge it).Quote:
Originally Posted by Caro178
Which is why I even said "with very niche support for it; most people would rather it went away". Because there ARE people, in these very forums too, who have voiced their appreciation for the hunchback. The middle term for it, imo, is giving it "more" of a justification. That way it won't look jarring for people who don't want it. And that way it also will allow people who do like it to have an even better experience and do better work for it.
Because, and this is not a diss to people who want the hunchback: a hunched over Hrothgar should remain consistent. As it stands, Hrothgars just look like they want to take a dump right there and then. Were this design better laid out and experimented with and the design stood a bit better, it likely wouldn't be this much of a hot topic. You'd still have people against it, sure, but in lesser numbers because the animalistic traits of Hrothgar would blend better with it.
So... yeah. Imo? It's a matter of executing the concept than the concept itself. I think your Tank is right in liking it, and it's fine if they don't feel comfortable with *the thing* that changes their posture. But given what I've seen from people who use it, I personally do prefer it because I see Hrothgar being a good concept with a Roegadyn execution, which leads to jarring moments. Like the aforementioned MCH spine snap. Were it better executed, I'd have a much better time welcoming it. And I'm sure many other people would as well. -
01-18-2023, 06:15 AMMidareyukki
To illustrate what I mean...
https://media.giphy.com/media/ZdVtE9...zwer/giphy.gif
I tested it on other races. No race snaps like Hrothgars do. Some do have a bit of clipping (specifically Roegadyn where I noticed their shoulders liiiiiiiiiiiiightly went back in place), but nothing as egregious as this.
We shoot, our spine snaps so hard it makes an orthopedic surgeon cringe, then the gif loops.
You can clearly tell that I'm not editing this either: the gif loops when I'm back at the default idle pose with the weapon drawn, hence why there's such a long lag between shots :p You can tell from the glow on the plants. The cut isn't done on the shot, it's done when everything's at idle.
Our backs are just messed up. And while, again, I personally believe this concept could work with a bit more improvement, it's stuff like this that makes me say it's not a good addition in the way Hrothgars are currently designed. Let's be honest: from the neck down, they're just humans with severe back problems. There are ways to do this. This way isn't one of them. -
01-18-2023, 12:47 PMSturmChurroYou know, I had never really noticed warping until relatively recently when roe or hrothgar players pointed it out, and I think maybe in the EW benchmark when I was looking at male viera. You don't really notice it as much - or at all - on the races I will play (au ra, miqo'te, viera). It does look pretty awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Midareyukki
Charr are pretty well made, as are a lot of the GW2 races really. I really like the animations and everything else, when you play the two you can kind of see how sort of stiff some of the things in this game look. Charr works pretty nice with hunch, since they actually run around on all fours. Hrothgar, are just catfaced roe with a tail, and the hrothgar NPCs didn't really come off as super animalistic either. Heck, they don't even have claws. -
01-18-2023, 01:06 PMMidareyukkiWe only have it in our starter gear xD Which is so jarring and LAZY! "Here guys, have some wrist cuffs. By the way, your claws are just press-on nails tied to a piece of fabric."Quote:
Originally Posted by SturmChurro
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01-18-2023, 08:31 PMPip_ChickStill mad on that one! Why can't I just have kitty claws?Quote:
Originally Posted by Midareyukki
Besides I haven't noticed the Machinist spine break, I don't usually play as Macinist so maybe that's why. But damn...
I really hope with the visual update they will take another look at Hrothgar and fix this, cause that is very jarring. -
01-18-2023, 08:53 PMAllegorI'm still salty they couldn't do even that, but I suspect it has something to do with not wanting to retroactively add claws to every glove/shoes that exposes the fingers - probably why Au Ra don't have scalier limbs either, as opposed to their concept art.Quote:
Originally Posted by Midareyukki
'If it's not a Hyur, it's a hassle to work with' - SE, probably -
01-18-2023, 10:23 PMTysilioThe way they did this for Orcs on WoW back when Warlords of Draenor released is that they just added a new posture option in the CC and on their equivalent of the aesthetician. Having more choice is just better in my opinion, even if one of the choices are unpopular. Adding a new posture would mean adding a lot of animations though (unless they just paste in the Roegadyn animations). I also agree on the fact that the slouch looks weird sometimes because the animations are inconsistent with each other. No weapon drawn out? Slouchy as usual. But the instant you get your magic wand out? Boom your scoliosis is (temporarily) fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caro178
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01-18-2023, 10:30 PMTysilioWhile I understand that altering all glove models to have claws would be a very expensive task, I don't understand why you don't have claws when your character is bare-handed. I guess you can fix that using the claw-gloves glam thing at the Gold Saucer, but eh, it's still kinda weird. Perhaps they didn't want Runar to look too agressive or monster-like when he was lugging Y'shtola around like a big bag of flour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allegor
On a completely unrelated note, I'd really like SE to make the hrothgar-specific hairstyles not tied to a face shape anymore. There are some hairstyles from other face shapes that I'd really like to see on my character, but can't because I don't have said head shape lol. -
01-18-2023, 10:33 PMSturmChurro
Similarly, I'd like to have painted nails on pretty much every single glamour that shows fingernails, now that would be a dream. SE make it happen: hrothgar their claws, and my painted nails! Also pedicures, but you need to give us actual toes first, make it happen!
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01-18-2023, 10:45 PMroniboschI was just about to say the last part, about fixing our block feet. Hopefully, with the graphics update, we'll be able to get polished nails, or at least open-toed shoes with that option.Quote:
Originally Posted by SturmChurro
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01-18-2023, 10:50 PMSturmChurroHaving the perfect heels, or sandals, with painted toe nails.. YES.Quote:
Originally Posted by ronibosch
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mersoi3hz01qf9c4m.gif
Viera and hrothgar complaint thread, let's see... imagine viera heels being a thing! Not the whole leg, but just the heels! Now imagine viera had painted toenails and finger nails.
Excuse me, I am running on no sleep at this point, and am in a glam mood. :o -
01-18-2023, 11:39 PMroniboschI'm still holding onto hope that we get more heels. There's only so many times I can use the Bonewicca or Viera starter heels. They're nice, but something that coulld go with more/different glamours would be nice. Variety is key!Quote:
Originally Posted by SturmChurro
You're all good. A glam mood is a good mood. :p -
01-18-2023, 11:57 PMCaro178
As much as I think the Viera from Tactics look weird as hell with their flesh coloured ears (are they made of skin? Are they furless? Do you think they feel like Sphinx cat peach fuzz??) they have some interesting heels that show off their claws.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dd/fa...107513b7da.jpg
I think everybody needs more heeled boots. Heels look so incredibly good on Viera, too. We were lucky to get the Summer Sunset platforms this summer which fit Viera perfectly. I basically swap back and forth between the Viera sandals, the Summer Sunset platforms, the Frontier pumps, the Deepshadow healer/caster grieves with a few flat shoes mixed in here and there. -
01-19-2023, 12:08 AMIscahI've gone the opposite direction for my male Viera – the common factor for both genders' starter gear is clawed toes, so I've been looking for all the variants of that. It seems to be 99% knee-length boots and he is in need of sandals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caro178
I also really want new versions of the Sky Pirate fending boots that keep the metal colour when dyed, in gold, silver and black metal. Right now both all-class versions do the same thing of making the metal a darker version of the dye colour. -
01-19-2023, 12:12 AMCaro178Oh, I should have specified this was for my female Viera. On my male I only wear various sandals or the short combat boots from Paradigm's Breach. I'm not fond of the male Viera racial clawed shoes. Island Sanctuary just updated with a wonderful batch of gorgeous sandals and I've been feasting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
https://gearsets.eorzeacollection.co...-male-feet.png
https://gearsets.eorzeacollection.co...-male-feet.png
https://gearsets.eorzeacollection.co...-male-feet.png -
01-19-2023, 12:24 AMPip_Chick
Was really thinking about the hunch when I had an interesting idea.
If anyone here played The Sims4 or just watched some videos on it, they would know that in character creation they added a category in which you can choose how to walk based on the personality of your Sim, one of those being hunched when walking, but others are like energised or scary, etc.
What if the devs implemented something like that in game? That way a lot of problems with honestley a lot of races could be resolved with minimal effort. Like the Elezen rigid running or Hrothgar's hunch back. It could give for some more diversity in movement.
It would not need to be a lot if that would make ot too complicated, but like 2-3 options for every race would be cool. -
01-19-2023, 12:26 AMIscahI actually was meaning specifically sandals or light shoes that continue the claw-toed look so I can keep that theme running for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caro178
They are definitely nice sandals though, and I'll be making use of them on my various characters once I get them that far into the game. Locking so much untradable glamour behind Island Sanctuary and then locking it so far into main game progress is multiple levels of inconvenient. -
01-19-2023, 12:34 AMCaro178Incredibly inconvenient. On one hand I hope they keep updating Island Sanctuary into 7.0 because I really enjoy it, but on the other the grind for glamour items is going to become increasingly difficult the more steps are added. There's supposed to be another huge update in 6.4. I know this isn't the topic of the thread so I'll leave it at this and segue back on topic, but I'm curious if there will be a whole new type of cowrie or if they'll continue to focus on the Seafarer cowries going forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
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01-19-2023, 01:20 PMSturmChurroI need heels. They look good on everything, but ESPECIALLY viera, since they are leggy. The viera starter heels are great, but it can be too much of a look. Sometimes (most of the time) I want just the heel. We need some neutrals; things that can fit with a lot of pieces.Quote:
Originally Posted by ronibosch
Glam mood.. yes.. I stayed up very late night and into the morning, just making glams, portraits, and the like. Just a nice little distraction. I had ideas on my mind. :p
I want that hair first and foremost! My viera would looks so good with that style. Probably. I'll glam around the clipping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caro178
Yes, heels are best on viera. The majority of what I wear for footwear in this game are sandals, or heels. I do wear some sneakers, though. I have a soft spot for sneakers, so I don't mind if SE keeps making more. -
01-19-2023, 01:36 PMMidareyukkiThat's... assuming it's 3 options max for every race. That's an additional set of animations for drawn weapons and idle poses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pip_Chick
You have the chance to have 20 jobs, so that's 60 animations, as that's 20 jobs x 3 personality traits. Including the base 3 idle poses, that's a total of 63 idle poses. Not counting the command to change pose where your character strikes a pose with their weapon, those always follow basic Hyur animations. I'm talking about simply having your weapon drawn, the one between autoattacks. Because that one is what's glitched on Hrothgar; we're trying to do a Roegadyn pose but then snap back to a hunched over Hrothgar pose.
And that's simply assuming that the other /changepose's won't be any different. Since those by default already display different personalities.
Then you have 8 races to pick from, each with two versions (some of which differ massively lore-wise, like the Xaela and the Raen), each version containing two genders. So that's 32 options total. AT MOST, because I do assume there will be overlap at some point, if we assume there's 63 poses for each race option and gender (sorry fans of gender-unlocking stuff), then that makes up 2016 animations they'd have to make. At most.
Naturally there will be overlap, cut corners, recycled animations and stuff like that, so a realistic number would be far lower. But it would still be rather high. We can easily cut out about a third because that will obviously be the default option we already have anyway.
The point is that while this is cute, and a girl can dream, realistically, Square would never. But this isn't a diss to you nor your idea. It's just that this isn't the same sort of game as TS4 in terms of graphics design.
They can't be bothered to make individual bodies for each race.
They can't be bothered to make hairs for each individiual race type.
They also can't be bothered to make gear look good half the time, or uncoupling it from its model and render it all gender-free.
They couldn't be bothered to keep Hrothgar ears until specifically raged at.
They can't even be bothered to give them back without it having a garbage mesh around it.
Square would never because the same company that has entire studios dedicated to making Triple-A games can't afford to purchase a few decent designers to improve upon their MMO. Because the issue with companies in general is that "if it works, why bother fix it?". Rather than having further respect for the product that's given them actual good faith in a full decade of terrible games and improve on its experience further. And sure, it takes a lot to do these things. I won't deny that. It DOES take time to make a model for an area, than alone animating like 32 models individually however dozen times. But if Square can't afford the absolute bare minimum, they can't afford something as good as this. -
01-23-2023, 12:53 AMRobynDaBank
You guys, does the Makai Aiming butterfly ribbon appear on female Viera? I'm a hair's length away from Fantasia to fem. Viera and I simply need to know.
Edit, I found out that it is, never mind!
https://gearsets.eorzeacollection.co...male-front.png -
01-23-2023, 01:16 AMCaro178
As a general rule I believe ALL tiaras, circlets, glasses, headbands, hair clips, flower corsages, ribbons and scarves will show up on Viera. Most tiny hats also work. The items that don't show up on buns are those that replace existing hair models with tucked in alternatives and tiny hats/full head model replacements released before late Shadowbringers.
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01-23-2023, 01:23 AMRobynDaBankThanks, will keep in mind!Quote:
Originally Posted by Caro178
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01-23-2023, 06:42 PMLuciaMirain
I wish they would fix the hat issue really. I glam alot and I always feel a bit lacking with options when it comes to the headgear. I want to be able to just toggle off the ears (yes I know it is the HAIR that is the problem). And no I can't use m*ds bc the glampages do not allow m*dded pics to be shown. I think they should really focus on the AF gear and raidgear at least.
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01-23-2023, 06:47 PMSturmChurroI really want some more quality circlets, tiaras, and the like, but those are super hit or miss, since half of them float, or clip through hairs. Thankfully I don't use hats in the majority of my own glams regardless of the races I have played. I don't think we should invite SE to start removing ears though. I HATE tails being removed, and I'd hate ears to be removed in more pieces. I would prefer they make a unique model, or adjustments based on race, but that's an impossibility, it seems. I DO think if they won't do everything, AT LEAST do iconic pieces, and frankly, I think cash shop pieces too, but I digress.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciaMirain
I don't like the idea of ears being removed even as a toggle.