BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

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Originally Posted by Berethos

That is ridiculous, and I think you know that.

Furthermore, when arguing that BLU had to be overpowered, I don't think anyone actually believed it fully depended on having the exact same skills as the monsters, but rather an understanding that the job and its mixing of abilities would allow for combinations and rotations that break the normal balance.

Lo and behold, we have one ability that already does more in one GCD in terms of status effects than any other player ability in the game, and it can work alongside 23 others with all sorts of effects and potential.

In short - you're being hyperbolic, and really should stop.

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There were actually people saying that the spells had to be at 100% power of the monster version otherwise it wouldn't be right and therefore not blue mage. There are two that I'm thinking of that said these things and one of them asked and tried to understand why some of us wanted blu if it didn't having access to the full strength spells.

Also, wouldn't some of the status ailments of Bad Breath start to be hit with the half duration mechanic after each use? Or is that no longer in the game? Or the spell could have a longer cooldown and/or higher MP cost?

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Originally Posted by Rosa_Frandlia

Answering bolded part, rest I agree with. This is even more true now that you don't need to level a specific class to 15 to get the job like pre-SB. To get white mage, I had to level to 15 archanist before I could unlock it and this is no longer the case. I know people complained about removing that requirement, but it has stopped the excuse for not having a job crystal.

Maybe your idea for DF for BLU could be done, although I'm curious if we can swap skills in Dungeons now with BLU as despite popular belief it can go in dungeons and trials as some skills require it. Not having to worry about PUG's may be a good thing without re-writing the code to make sure certain skills are learned before going into a dungeon for roulettes. I know I'll at least try the class and bet PF will get lots of BLU's looking to run dungeons to learn skills like from Cutter's Cry, Ifrit, and Shiva.

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Unless I misunderstood you, we are on the same page. I meant it was ridiculous to not have the job crystal by then. Should be built into the progression - I wouldn't even be mad if it were tied into the MSQ.

Tie the level 30 job quests to the prerequisites to "Trial By Turtle" - level 30 MSQ. If you have not completed your job quest, when Landenel is to tell you of the location of the egg, have him instead say something about not being strong enough yet and to come back once you have satisfied your trainer, or something.

As for the actions - I can't seeing it be too difficult to implement. I see it being more difficult implementing Blue Mage as it is being presented, with the weapon not changing, if i understood that right, and the stats and stuff. They were through so much extra work to make it special....

But in the end, even if it's great pie, it is still not cake.

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Originally Posted by Skos

This is the one thing that has me completely confused. They explicitly stated that this job was intended for solo play and then... offer benefits for partying up with other players?
Are we supposed to be partying up to unlock primal abilities like Glacial Arrow as well then? If that's the case then how is this class designed for solo play?

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I especially like that you have to fight Shiva in her extreme trial to have a chance to learn her ability....

... but you can't queue up yourself to her trial.

Hope it doesn't require the trial to be synced for you to have a chance to learn it. Spamming Shiva EX Sync PF is not something I will be looking forward to.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

At least we know that the check to learn the actions is done for the entire group instead of being done only one per BLU in the group.
Which means that no matter how you look at it, it'll always be better to learn skills in group. And since some skills can only be learned in dungeons, people should expect to see a lot of PF and group play around Blue Mages parties.

While that's not DF, it's a really big incentive for group play, as going solo is objectively the less effective way (and won't let you learn skills from dungeons anyway).

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They said it's the same single % chance to learn a given spell for all blu in the party so having more or less won't alter the learn rate. One "coin" is flipped and either the blu(s) learn the spell or not.

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Originally Posted by JBee

I especially like that you have to fight Shiva in her extreme trial to have a chance to learn her ability....

... but you can't queue up yourself to her trial.

Hope it doesn't require the trial to be synced for you to have a chance to learn it. Spamming Shiva EX Sync PF is not something I will be looking forward to.

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Oh could you imagine it, the wonder:

Extreme only, level sync (w/ ilevel).
30% chance to learn the Bow spell, 1/3 the party disbands each attempt because they learned it.

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Originally Posted by jon041065

They said that when a spell is learned, it's learned by all blu present in the party. It's a singular dice roll for the spell to be learned or not.

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All to get that sweet 200 potency attack, 15 second cooldown, 3 second cast time (made up numbers, not sure what the actual potency like calculation is).

Personally I'd be a bit annoyed with the concept that it's neither end game valuable nor complete solo available, if the job can quickly out rank old stuff with OP spells and go back by themselves unsynced it wont be so bad, but if all their skills are tweaked down for balance AND they have the level/content restrictions held onto them (such that you can't solo ex Shiva at level 50)...

I just can't even at that point lol. We obviously will have a few more weeks to wait and see but I really hope its not "not good enough to solo hard content, that you could solo with your level 80, also can't participate in current content.." or in other words "I do a lot poorly and a little bit sort of well". That'd be a bit sad :(

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Originally Posted by Skos

This is the one thing that has me completely confused. They explicitly stated that this job was intended for solo play and then... offer benefits for partying up with other players?
Are we supposed to be partying up to unlock primal abilities like Glacial Arrow as well then? If that's the case then how is this class designed for solo play?

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People complained about BLU being designed for solo in a MMORPG...
Now people complain about us having options not to stricly have to play solo?

Besides, Masked Carnivale is solo, and nothing prevents you from learning skills from field monsters alone.

Being "mostly designed for solo play" doesn't mean "strictly designed for solo play".

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Originally Posted by jon041065

They said it's the same single % chance to learn a given spell for all blu in the party so having more or less won't alter the learn rate. One "coin" is flipped and either the blu(s) learn the spell or not.

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I know that. But playing in party means killing stuff faster, which itself means more dice throw to try and learn the skill.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

I know that. But playing in party means killing stuff faster, which itself means more dice throw to try and learn the skill.

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True but could also have one of them kill the mob before it has used the ability. lol

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Originally Posted by Fyce

People complained about BLU being designed for solo in a MMORPG...
Now people complain about us having options not to stricly have to play solo?

Besides, Masked Carnivale is solo, and nothing prevents you from learning skills from field monsters alone.

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Except if content can't be completed by yourself of course (like having only a specific type of difficulty monster drop a spell). Also the complaint is if you're going to make a job unable to take part in current content cause they're so OP then the thought is they're going to be so great you can solo with them. If they can neither solo nor take part in end game content it begs a table flipping lol.

Being able to solo in the overworld is not an achievement so that certainly doesn't count, we can do that with any job - even our chocobo can do that alone XD.

At least that's my thought on it. Besides having to beg for a party finder to learn a skill from content that drops things that are no longer valuable to your main... Sounds like a great way to be shouting and begging for hours to receive help later down the line once the excitement train is out.

Of course Blue Mage could be capable of soloing everything, once certain spells are learned at least. Just a bit underwhelming to see the bow attack for example does not melt faces like it does normally (as that makes me think they're going "balance'd" and more likely needing a party route, in which case the above "can't solo, and can't current content party?" sentiment arises).

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Originally Posted by JBee

Unless I misunderstood you, we are on the same page. I meant it was ridiculous to not have the job crystal by then. Should be built into the progression - I wouldn't even be mad if it were tied into the MSQ.

Tie the level 30 job quests to the prerequisites to "Trial By Turtle" - level 30 MSQ. If you have not completed your job quest, when Landenel is to tell you of the location of the egg, have him instead say something about not being strong enough yet and to come back once you have satisfied your trainer, or something.

As for the actions - I can't seeing it be too difficult to implement. I see it being more difficult implementing Blue Mage as it is being presented, with the weapon not changing, if i understood that right, and the stats and stuff. They were through so much extra work to make it special....

But in the end, even if it's great pie, it is still not cake.

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We definitely agree and I love that idea! I don't see it too hard, even if it were to tie it to those learned in your job quests making people actually do their job quests as they level. Have the core ones you need there. What could be fun, try running coils of Bahamut as an all BLU party. I know it took forever for me to run it late by finding WT's parties to run the next coil for me.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Except if content can't be completed by yourself of course (like having only a specific type of difficulty monster drop a spell). Also the complaint is if you're going to make a job unable to take part in current content cause they're so OP then the thought is they're going to be so great you can solo with them. If they can neither solo nor take part in end game content it begs a table flipping lol.

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That's not the main reason why BLU cannot join the rest of the cast. It's because it is simply not designed like the rest of the cast. Being OP or not isn't really the point (it's just part of it, in the sense that BLU isn't balanced like regular job).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Being able to solo in the overworld is not an achievement so that certainly doesn't count, we can do that with any job - even our chocobo can do that alone XD.

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Never said it was an achievement. Just that overworld content can be done in solo, which goes in line with BLU design focus.
Since overworld content is solo friendly, and that BLU has a strong gameplay revolving around overworld content, it's fair to say that BLU was designed for solo play. But this doesn't mean that you can't party up, since that's also part of what's possible in overworld content.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

At least that's my thought on it. Besides having to beg for a party finder to learn a skill from content that drops things that are no longer valuable to your main... Sounds like a great wait to be shouting and begging for help later down the line once the excitement train is out.

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So? There's a bunch of content where new comers have to ask for help. Just make friends or join a FC that is willing to help you out. It isn't -that- hard. Especially since people have been talking about "but this is a MMORPG!" so much.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Of course Blue Mage could be capable of soloing everything, once certain spells are learned at least. Just a bit underwhelming to see the bow attack for example not melt faces like it does normally (as that makes me think they're going "balance'd" and more likely needing a party route, in which case the above "can't solo, can't current content party sentiment" arises).

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Keep in mind that they said the power of skills for BLU isn't calculated out of your weapon damage like other jobs. So, we actually have no idea how powerful these skill will actually be under real play. We didn't see Yoshida's gear. So far,we only know that Shiva's Ice Bow will be a 90s cooldown skill that has a high potency. Maybe it's just an oGCD like Fleche/Contre Sixte.