Revelations from SHADOWBRINGERS

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That's not rejoining, that's overwriting timelines - only one version survives and the other is "thrown out". And you're only thinking about the Source, not the shards - we've seen that the worlds aren't identical copies like that. The differences are far greater than "character X died on the Source but survived on the First" - entire civilisations are different.

Additionally, replacing the Source with "a version of the Source where the Ascians never existed" is near impossible. They didn't just cause the death of a few people we like; they're entwined through all of history. The Allagan Empire might not exist; the Garlean Empire would not exist; the War of the Magi well might have been their doing. The Sundering itself might be erased.

This is an entirely different issue to the Rejoining ofthe current worlds, to say the least.

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It is still a possible "Rejoining" result as it has been used before in certain stories when they fused together Two or multiple Parallel worlds.

The other option is a bit complicated because they have to take into considerations what the Rejoining actually means if it is done through a Non-Calamity method. That one can result in a completely new and Larger world that combines all the lands of all remaining Shards that was not destroyed by their select element and forced back into the Source thus becoming new "Continents" for future expansions to explore in a Ascian/Zodiark free world.

It is difficult now to determine the result of a Non-Calamity rejoining because we only know about what happens when a Rejoining happens in a Calamity method which would basically destroy all life in the shard so it can become the elemental energy needed to return to the source. However, a Non-Calamity rejoining may not bring the destruction of the Shard lands but instead may preserve it and add it into the world.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

It is still a possible "Rejoining" result as it has been used before in certain stories when they fused together Two or multiple Parallel worlds.

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Other stories. Not this one. It is not a concept that works here.

We don't have multiple copies of the Source that diverged in the recent past like your example scenarios.

If we did have them and they merged, that's not an "everyone lives" outcome. That's "one version of everyone lives and erases the other one". (Which is in fact what the Future Ironworks team were attempting to do to their own timeline, but is a completely different phenomenon to Rejoining.)

I don't see it as a good outcome. It discards character growth, and ignores the way that one character's death might be a catalyst for another's maturation.

It goes against the overall theme of the story - of moving forward and appreciating what we have instead of trying to restore it to how it once was but cannot be again.

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And on combining the shards into some new Frankenstein's monster of a planet, no. You can't just do that. It would wreak havoc with the natural world.

The shards are copies occupying the same space, not fragments of a larger whole that can be reassembled.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

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Well all we can do is speculate on what and what cannot happen from what we only know currently.

We don't know the results since all we go on is from what we currently know and what we theroize what may happen.

A lot of things can change through the course of 5.1 to 6.0 that changes everything we know about the game's lore considering they open up the can of wurms called the "Original World" and the "Original Soul of WoL". 5.0 started the spark to question everything we know about the world while confirming certain speculations as true. Now as said in the 5.0 finale, we cannot predict what will happen in the future anymore, only watch and see what will be the results.

i expect to see a lot more lore about the Original World and how the Sundering actually happened while maybe actually get to see a vision on the actual events that allow us to understand more about the True History of the FF14 Universe. Maybe include a few story events and instances where WoL gets to be experience important aspects of the Original Soul's life to have first hand view of the events leading to the Original Calamity and what the Original World was like beyond Amaurot and possible other Ancient Civilizations that existed during the Original World.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

The thing about the Rejoining is that we have not heard about the method of rejoining that does not cause a Calamity yet.

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And we cant just assume that such a way is possible and also why should we even do that? For us living like its now is good. Maybe we will get some more information that show this kind of state as being bad, but I somehow doubt it. Also how would such rejoinings even happen without any death? These shards are not like Azys Lla, they are not missing from our planet. They are their own planet so how twould they even fit on our source? How would these billions of lifeforms not mess up the source if they suddenly pop up?

And for what? To fight Zodiark? Why? He is probably the most powerful being in existence. He was created by the sacrifice of unknown amounts of Ancient beings. He was able to save a planet that was beyond saving and rewrote reality and law. And if we do rejoinings without death, that also means that nobody is fully complete. How would we ever go against someone like that?

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Yes a lot can happen and yes sometimes new lore changes our perspective a bit but what you want is imo not something possible and would make no sense in this story. And even if some things change they have made it clear again and again that the theme is that people should go on and not stick to the past. And with saving the first and showing this as good I doubt they somehow would turn around and rejoin worlds anyway.

You can speculate anything but there are some theories which will make more sense then others because they are rooted with at least some facts. I could also go and say that at the end of the story the WoL wakes up and sees that he/she is in the real world and all of it was a dream which they got while falling asleep when they played FF14 online. I mean theoretically SE could go that way but it makes no sense at all for them to do that.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

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Like i said we just have to wait and see what happens between 5.1 to 6.0.

There is a lot of things we know now that may be revealed to be a lie during these moments and what we believe is not possible maybe possible in the end.

There is a saying in Guild Wars 2 from the Priory Order being "History never lies but Historians do."

In our perspective now we are only seeing things from Historians perspective of events but not the actual history itself. Everything we are told to keep things the way they are and rejoining is a bad idea because it only cause issues with no positive results is still through Historians perspective of things but not the actual History of the events and Historians tend to twist the truth or miss certain truth about what really happened in History. It is part of 5.0 plot being to question the things we know and what are the things we are missing which I expect to be greatly expanded on through 5.1 to 6.0.

We most likely won't see the Truth until maybe between 5.2 to 6.0 since currently I expect that the only way we will ever know the Truth is through the Original Soul's memories since Hydaelyn does not want anyone to know about the Original World and Ascians only want to tell people the parts of the Original World History they know about that benefits them only.

I expect 5.1 to be one of this "cliffhanger" plots that starts the question but does not answer anything because of "cliffhanger for hype" reasons for 5.2 MSQ or sometime between 5.3 to 5.55 MSQ plot.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Like i said we just have to wait and see what happens between 5.1 to 6.0.

There is a lot of things we know now that may be revealed to be a lie during these moments and what we believe is not possible maybe possible in the end.

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"Anything could happen"... but only if the writers want it to happen and think it would be the best way to conclude the story. What best fits the themes that have been building all this time.

The Rejoining will only become necessary if the writers think it is a better ending than defeating the Ascians (and/or whatever else) and saving all the worlds to continue their individual existences.

There is plenty of room for further revelations without resorting to this particular one.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

I expect that the only way we will ever know the Truth is through the Original Soul's memories since Hydaelyn does not want anyone to know about the Original World

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Our only knowledge of that comes from Elidibus's monologue at the end, and it's ambiguous. It seems more about the 'average person' not being aware that their world is somehow cosmically "incomplete" or a shadow of what it was in the past - they don't need to know it and won't ever see it as a problem because it's undetectable at a normal human level.

It doesn't mean that Hydaelyn (if She is in a state to communicate at all now) won't tell us the whole truth now that we know part of it, and know the right questions to ask.

Perhaps we regain old memories. Perhaps we question Elidibus, or Hydaelyn, or Hythlodaeus if he's still there to be talked to.

There is certainly a lot for us to learn about the "original world" as you're calling it - but it's not something separate that we necessarily need to return to. It's the ancient history of all the worlds, but they have all changed and become unique worlds since they split apart and there is no need to recombine them, unless (the writers decide to introduce that) there is some cosmic requirement to do so.

And in my opinion, it would be poor writing and inconsistent with everything they have thematically built up to this far.

The ancient world is there to provide a realistic goal for the Ascians so they're not just cackling villains. It doesn't mean it has to become our goal as well.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

The thing about the Rejoining is that we have not heard about the method of rejoining that does not cause a Calamity yet.

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There are a lot of things we "haven't heard of" for the simple reason that they are so impossible they're not worth mentioning. Unless and until the game reveals it is actually necessary and doable, I consider a "good Rejoining" to be one of them.

In any case the Calamity is not the only negative effect of a Rejoining - the erasing of entire worlds is far worse, and severe disruption by ''melding" them isn't much better.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

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I am talking about Echo visions and story instances that have WoL relive the Original Soul's life to see what really happened during the final moments of the Original World before the Calmaity. Part of 5.0 plot is about that we can no longer take things at face value only now as there is something more behind the scenes. It is part of 5.0 plot to question everything we know and for it to continue through 5.1 to 6.0.

The most Obvious ending currently will be that nothing changes in the end with the Shards and Source with the only thing different is that Zodiark and Ascians are both dead leaving Hydaelyn to be the Goddess of all life in the worlds 100% now or both Zodiark and Hydaelyn dies thus leaving the Shards and Source to develop on their own without any influence from Gods, Asicans, and etc anymore. Simple, straight forward, and no complicated plot twists since we been expecting this ending since 2.0.

But as I said we can't determine where this will lead now since there are many things that can be revealed due to the introduction of the Original World and Original Soul. To ignore what really happened in these two things will be against the Plot of 5.0 being to move on from the past but to also never forget that they existed.... that they lived. To learn the Truth about the Original World and original soul is important to 5.0 plot because these are the proof of the Past that lived and the key to ending this eternal conflict between Zodiark and Hydaelyn may remain in it as well so we don't repeat the mistakes of the Past so the future generation can continue.

Either way this is how I will end my part of this discussion since, as I said, we can't truely predict what will happen in the end. We can only go by what we know and what we may consider a possible outcome.

You know there is one way they could go about all of this and have the original world be unsundered.... (now dont take this as I would like this to happen but it is a possibility and probably one of the oldest tropes in the book and would explain everything including the echo).... they could have this, what we are currently playing through, be nothing more than a prophetic vision that the original soul is having just after zodiark is summoned. I can hear all of you groaning now but hey like I said it's a thought. Also again one I really hope isnt going to happen unless they want to completely end the entire storyline of ffxiv.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Also on your "truck is like a Volkswagen" analogy... truck licenses are a specific thing for a reason, and if you assume you can safely drive the truck because you understand the theory and you drove a car once, then it may go badly for you.

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I was afraid folks would jump on that angle when I wrote it, but "Volkswagon and Minivan" just doesn't have the same impact. :P Zenos has all the licenses. All of them. He was born with them innately, just like all his other overpowered nonsense.

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I can't see a "kind Rejoining" possibly being a thing - thematically or realistically.

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Honestly, I don't see it being in the cards, either - but it whether it's horrible or not depends on how it's written. The Source likely has room for seven times the population - especially if the "kind rejoining" brings over additional land masses (as was the case in Final Fantasy 5). And as for the "merged consciousness" tack, if it's truly a "kind Rejoining", it's not going to be a nightmarish cacophony of incompatible minds, but rather a smooth blend of experiences.

As you wrote in another post, though, the theme of this game is moving on, accepting what we have and letting go of what is gone. This is something I agree with, and was merely trying to clarify the viewpoint of the "kind Rejoining" crowd (even if it seems that Edwin Li has a pretty unique take on the concept).

That said, as a matter of personal opinion, I think the Ancients DID have a much better thing going (not perfect, by any means, no matter what Emet-Selch believes, but still pretty darned grand), and if the price wasn't so preposterous, if a kind Rejoining WAS possible, I'd be all for it. That simply can't happen though - not just because it doesn't fit the theme of moving on, but also by the simple fact that this is a MMO. It's not going to HAVE an ending. Even if they write a wrap-up storyline, the Adventure will Always Continue. And it can't really do that if we're back in a peaceful era of immortal wizards whose idea of conflict is a spirited discussion.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Continue. And it can't really do that if we're back in a peaceful era of immortal wizards whose idea of conflict is a spirited discussion.

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I don't think the Original World was peaceful at all but the things we are told may be very bias towards the Armaurot society. We still know very little about the world outside of Armaurot. The Ascians are basically dealing with the Remember the Good but avoid remembering the Bad part of the old world due being obsessed with bring the old world back.

As for Season 2 storyline, I do greatly expect it to begin with a new Adventure feeling due to REASONS caused by Season 1 ending with the potential loss of Godly powers we built up since 2.0 (most likely single handedly defeat the Final Final Boss of Season 1 lore wise despite it being a Group Trial Fight) so we can be back to being a Normal Adventurer due to a Price we had to pay to defeat the Final Final Boss of Season 1 Storyline. We can't honestly expect to keep the large amount of power the WoL is currently known for by the end of Season 1 since at this point we are basically close to being a God now.

We know Season 2 currently only has plans to be for 2 expansions after Season 1 ends and from their FF14 can either end so they can take a break from a FF MMO or prepare for the next FF MMO, get updated, or get a Sequel being FF14-2.

As for how Season 2 may begin, my best guess would be Season 2 focus on a mass expedition into a Unknown lands that has not been touched by the Garleans nor other current City states we know about due to the Garlean Conquests halted at Eorzea for so long.

From 6.1 or 6.4 we may see the Adventurer Guild slowly move into create this Expedition Team while attracting the attention of many Organizations from different City States that also seek their own personal benefit from these unexplored regions of the World.

As for who may return in Season 2 storyline and leave the story to remain behind in Eorzea, that will greatly be up to how Season 1 ends I guess. I don't expect the Expedition to main the focus on the plot though since by Sequel Plot rules, something must emerge to make the WoL go on another journey to gather new allies, meet a bunch of new friends, and reunit with old friends to defeat this new Antagonist and his minions.