Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

some extremes alot of healers just dont dps because to them extremes are hard, hence why its a nich piece of content, so Im not gona even get mad in extremes either if healers dont dps if they are just tryin to keep people alive. Some may not be able to manage both and as far as dungeons like I said this is as far as some players go period im willing to say half of the player base. For whatever reason they dont venture beyond doing dungeons, so i say give them a break if they are in their comfort zone then leave them the hell alone. Some players just can manage doing both better than others, why is it so hard for you to understand this

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You main a White Mage. Are you going to tell me that if you only focus on healing, you're actually doing something the entire fight? No fight, savage included, is like this. Progression sure, there is minimal DPS, but are you really going to tell me that there are people with such an awkward comfort zone that they are unable to actually attack an enemy when everyone's HP is near full? That's not a different playstyle or a comfort zone issue. That's being lazy and/or bad. You have plenty of time to sneak in damage in any level of content, especially dungeons. Now don't sit there and tell me any White Mage, Astrologian or Scholar can't DPS during a dungeon. That's just a flat out lie. You're either DPSing or you are standing around. That's how low the level of healing is in a dungeon, even when it is new.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

You main a White Mage. Are you going to tell me that if you only focus on healing, you're actually doing something the entire fight? No fight, savage included, is like this. Progression sure, there is minimal DPS, but are you really going to tell me that there are people with such an awkward comfort zone that they are unable

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I actually main tanks now I was maining a whm but I do still heal and Ive already mention that i use cleric, but at the same time I have friends who main healers that do not dps. And like i said that will not do anything outside of dungeons either , alot of players wont go higher than dungeons. So why call people out in the only content that they even do, they arent in your statics , if they are in ur party finder group you can kick them.

So why do you have to have control over what they do in a dungeon, the more skilled players already have plenty of say in all other forms of content, but dungeons are for everyone. If you dont want a healer to just heal in a dungeon if thats what suits them your basicly telling them that you do not want them to even be playing the game at all.

Because its not gona change just cause you make this thread its not gona change how they want to play, and if this is the only content they feel ok to even do then Im just gona keep my mouth shut and leave it alone. Your example makes no sense at all a dps standing in aoes on purpose is hurting the run, a tank not using any cool downs can hurt the run, a healer that doesnt dps doesnt do anything but annoy you it doesnt hurt a dungeon run at all not even a little bit.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I actually main tanks now I was maining a whm but I do still heal and Ive already mention that i use cleric, but at the same time I have friends who main healers that do not dps. And like i said that will not do anything outside of dungeons either , alot of players wont go higher than dungeons. So why call people out in the only content that they even do, they arent in your statics , if they are in ur party finder group you can kick them..

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Because they will spend large portions of the dungeon literally doing nothing. Granted, I rarely care enough to call them out directly. My one exception is healers who jump around because they're clearly bored only healing. Nevertheless, it's not a matter of control but people wanting everyone to contribute somewhat equally. If content had higher healing demands, you would see this meta die a quick death. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem likely, thus I suspect it gets worse before it gets better.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Because they will spend large portions of the dungeon literally doing nothing. Granted, I rarely care enough to call them out directly. My .

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But even then thats very subjective everyone doesnt think that tho , alot of people actually view some dungeons as being hard from their own point of view. Now I havent healed it myself only tanked or dps but shom al hard for an example, If a tank pulls the two pacs and doesnt use a single cool down then the healer will acutally be trying to keep them up.

Like things kinda go hand and hand tank uses cool downs to allow healers to dps, I mention earlier many tanks dont even seem to even know what a cool down is. But I do not believe for a second like ive heard in this forums before that a fairy can solo heal a tank in shom al hard or any of the other last four dungeons alone. But for dungeons which is content for everyone , I think how it is set up now is perfectly fine, if it wasnt we wouldnt have things like tales form the duty finder on the forums.

Im of the mind to at least give those whom may not do other content some content to do actually instead of thinkin this game is only made from those who are higher skilled. The bottom line is dungeons are irrelevant content that dont really matter that are just a means to slowly help us upgrade our gear, so its for everyone you dont have to maximize anything in a dungeon as long as its not 40 and 50 mins long i dont see the problem. As a tank main now I cringe when I get tanks that will actually pull one solo add but I dont say anything because it doesnt really matter at the end of the day.

1) no one is able to determin someone else's comfort zone, unless you personally know that person and the things they've been through there is no possible way for you know what their comfort zone is.

2) everyone has thier prefered play style and deserve respect for it whether you agree with it or not. Now I love my whm I do dps when I'm able to because I don't like just standing around, if I'm running something new I tend to dps a lot less until I'm familiar with it. For extremes and other content like that I prefere to simply heal and let the other healer do the dps because I'm good at keeping ppl alive and depending on how much dmg everyone is taking will decide whether I toss out any dps.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

but I dont say anything because it doesnt really matter at the end of the day.

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So you have no respect for your own time? If a tank in my group was doing single pulls when we had AoE in the group, I would certainly ask that they pull more. It's a waste of everyone's time.

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Originally Posted by AmalonStar

1) no one is able to determin someone else's comfort zone, unless you personally know that person and the things they've been through there is no possible way for you know what their comfort zone is.

2) everyone has thier prefered play style and deserve respect for it whether you agree with it or not. Now I love my whm I do dps when I'm able to because I don't like just standing around, if I'm running something new I tend to dps a lot less until I'm familiar with it. For extremes and other content like that I prefere to simply heal and let the other healer do the dps because I'm good at keeping ppl alive and depending on how much dmg everyone is taking will decide whether I toss out any dps.

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sorry for my wording when I said comfort zone I meant their playstyle if it isnt negative and hurting anyone it doesnt really botther me personally

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

So you have no respect for your own time? If a tank in my group was doing single pulls when we had AoE in the group, I would certainly ask that they pull more. It's a waste of everyone's time.

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It happens all the time tho , Id grow tired of repeating it over and over again , alot of tanks just will pull what is in front of them whether that be 1 add or 3 adds at a time. If im going into df I expect to get whatever the df has ready for me on the other side Ive mention I see many tanks never use cool downs and I actually pay attention to this now as a tank main. Id grow tired of saying well hey why dont u use rampart, or why dont u use blood bath, or hey why dont u try useing overpower on warrior. Like its a dungeon what else should I expect?

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

You main a White Mage. Are you going to tell me that if you only focus on healing, you're actually doing something the entire fight? No fight, savage included, is like this. Progression sure, there is minimal DPS, but are you really going to tell me that there are people with such an awkward comfort zone that they are unable to actually attack an enemy when everyone's HP is near full? That's not a different playstyle or a comfort zone issue. That's being lazy and/or bad. You have plenty of time to sneak in damage in any level of content, especially dungeons. Now don't sit there and tell me any White Mage, Astrologian or Scholar can't DPS during a dungeon. That's just a flat out lie. You're either DPSing or you are standing around. That's how low the level of healing is in a dungeon, even when it is new.

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Some players only play dungeons, and perhaps only a couple times a week. Perhaps they try dps-ing without cleric stance, but that's obviously not going to do much at all. Then they try to cleric stance, but as said, unless you know what to expect, it is entirely possible to be caught out and cause a wipe, even in those normal dungeon. So to these people, it is simply not worth it to do so. They don't do enough of the content to gain enough familiarity to comfortably stance dance. They are certainly not going to spend their very limited playtime taking risks of wipe to do so, when it would only cause them stress instead of enjoyment. So, for dungeon runs, imo the rest of us should just suck it up and bear with such people. They have a right to play the game too. If you don't want to, simple, just never queue solo for them.

I think in general most people aren't all about "healers must dps", it's more like "healers should try to dps if possible" (well maybe excluding some extreme cases, since I've seen people saying they'd kick healers who don't dps). What I think is problematic is that there are people who advocate "healers should only heal" simply because the role is called "healer", which doesn't encourage people to get better at utilizing their toolkit to help their parties. If you don't want to dps, it's fine in easier contents, but don't go around telling everyone that's the best way to play a healer job.

If you join difficult contents like ex trials and savage raids there will be certain level of expectations on your ability to utilize your toolkit, which may include things that aren't your "primary" role (dpsing as healers, mnk's mantra, smn's virus and raise, blm's apoc, nin's aggro control skills, tanks' group mitigation skills). This expectation isn't something determined by the devs, it's determined by the playerbase as a whole, based on what most people of your job can achieve. If dpsing while healing is so hard that only world class raiders can do it, I doubt people would expect healers to dps in PUGs.