What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

I have a question about opinions on the Scions. Is the displeasure with the fanboy personality of G'raha because people got used to the Exarch persona or because people just don't like fanboy in general? Would people feel better or less frustrated with this aspect if it were explained/explored more how G'raha actually works with the dual memories/soul thing?

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I have a question about opinions on the Scions. Is the displeasure with the fanboy personality of G'raha because people got used to the Exarch persona or because people just don't like fanboy in general? Would people feel better or less frustrated with this aspect if it were explained/explored more how G'raha actually works with the dual memories/soul thing?

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My problem with EW G'raha is that he's a flanderized version of his ARR self, and the Exarch was a much more believable "aged" version of the original G'raha.

Endwalker G'raha is a plot device at best and exclusively a tool to get fangirls/boys squealing in social media at worst. They could come up with the most detailed explanation as to why he is the way he is, it still doesn't change that he is.

That's my two cents anyway.

To be honest I think both him and Y'shtola are just as bad now.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I have a question about opinions on the Scions. Is the displeasure with the fanboy personality of G'raha because people got used to the Exarch persona or because people just don't like fanboy in general? Would people feel better or less frustrated with this aspect if it were explained/explored more how G'raha actually works with the dual memories/soul thing?

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We spent over a year and a half with the serious character of the Exarch whose on screen presence moved the plot along in meaningful ways. This was a character who understood and was prepared for the fact that his sacrifices would not be automatically hand-waved away by writing unable to commit to the weight of his decisions. Then his crystallization was negated and 5.4 went on to start the sparly eyes uwu trend.

The character at this point is ruined in my eyes and I have very little interest in exploring the inner workings of his mind. This is not the character I grew to like over the course of Shadowbringers. He went from one of the better characters in this game to a force that motivates me to uninstall each time he speaks because he's become the fandom's plushie to which no harm can be done. At this point he represents negative character growth combined with a personality so insufferable that him still being involved in the main plot would be an active detriment to the story.

Resources are best spent introducing and fleshing out new, fresh characters who can be taken seriously and do not feel the need to chase after the WoL like a lost puppy.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I have a question about opinions on the Scions. Is the displeasure with the fanboy personality of G'raha because people got used to the Exarch persona or because people just don't like fanboy in general? Would people feel better or less frustrated with this aspect if it were explained/explored more how G'raha actually works with the dual memories/soul thing?

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For me, it’s that where he goes, bad writing and plot holes follow. Prime example at the end of ShB where he’s somehow able to cast a spell to summon 7 wol when he couldn’t even cast that spell properly once whilst under the full power of the tower, not even including the fact throughout the entire expansion we’re constantly told if he gets too far from the tower he’s weaker. They say this like it’ll mean something yet somehow he’s full power all the way in Amaurot? Then we get to 5.3 where he’s just untouchable. Elidibus just for some reason doesnt kill him so Graha kills not just one unsundered, but two. He has become nothing more than a mary sue whose only purpose is to take over the development of other characters and act as a new “adorable” mascot for the game that humps the WoL’s leg every 5 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I have a question about opinions on the Scions. Is the displeasure with the fanboy personality of G'raha because people got used to the Exarch persona or because people just don't like fanboy in general? Would people feel better or less frustrated with this aspect if it were explained/explored more how G'raha actually works with the dual memories/soul thing?

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I think the issue for me personally is the bits of Exarch are still there as present in the Final days of Thavnair when he is rescuing the people. It is super jarring to see him switch on "I am a leader with 100+ years experience and know how to handle this" then go right back to fawning over the WoL. I also feel like him fawning over the WoL is just as unneeded as when they tried to do it with Alisaie in ShB. Man do I miss the not ultra in your face WoL harem members who have a life outside of me. Let me also say I loved Exarch as a character but seeing how they have done G'raha just makes me shake my head and want to hit the skip cutscene button which I back out of and just speed read the dialog because heavens forbid I get yelled at for not understanding the lore because I skipped a cutscene I could Youtube/Unending Journey later. I had intended to replay the whole story again on an alt with a friend over his summer break from college but knowing I will basically have to see "Exarch" die again kinda makes me not motivated.

I've never been to this part of the forum before...but what?

Other than here, I've never seen any complaints about EW's story than some people thought the pacing could be better and the second trip to Laby felt a little filler to people and that EVERYONE knew the death fake-outs in Ultima were fake outs.

While those complaints are hardly nothing, they're also not supremely or critically damaging to the narrative, largely being mild annoyances marring an otherwise fantastic experience.

Is this forum out of touch with the entire rest of the community, or is this some big thing that I've somehow never heard of anywhere else?

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I've never been to this part of the forum before...but what?

Other than here, I've never seen any complaints about EW's story than some people thought the pacing could be better and the second trip to Laby felt a little filler to people and that EVERYONE knew the death fake-outs in Ultima were fake outs.

While those complaints are hardly nothing, they're also not supremely or critically damaging to the narrative, largely being mild annoyances marring an otherwise fantastic experience.

Is this forum out of touch with the entire rest of the community, or is this some big thing that I've somehow never heard of anywhere else?

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How much of this thread have you read? Quite a bit of the grievances people have, have been thoroughly explained in earlier pages.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I've never been to this part of the forum before...but what?

Other than here, I've never seen any complaints about EW's story than some people thought the pacing could be better and the second trip to Laby felt a little filler to people and that EVERYONE knew the death fake-outs in Ultima were fake outs.

While those complaints are hardly nothing, they're also not supremely or critically damaging to the narrative, largely being mild annoyances marring an otherwise fantastic experience.

Is this forum out of touch with the entire rest of the community, or is this some big thing that I've somehow never heard of anywhere else?

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"Summoner should go back to being a warlock and bring back ruin stacking/dots" is an example of when the forum is out of touch with the rest of the community.

"Endwalker's 2nd half of the story was poorly handled and Venat is a questionable character" is a sign that one can can actually analyze the story being told to them rather than just being carried by feels and expansion launch hype.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I've never been to this part of the forum before...but what?

Other than here, I've never seen any complaints about EW's story than some people thought the pacing could be better and the second trip to Laby felt a little filler to people and that EVERYONE knew the death fake-outs in Ultima were fake outs.

While those complaints are hardly nothing, they're also not supremely or critically damaging to the narrative, largely being mild annoyances marring an otherwise fantastic experience.

Is this forum out of touch with the entire rest of the community, or is this some big thing that I've somehow never heard of anywhere else?

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This is a weird post to me. Everything ever made gets criticized. The fact that you thought a story as average as EW would be somehow immune to it is a good sign you're living in an echo chamber.

The forum out of touch? Why does the forum need to be aligned with anyone else? The majority's opinions are not the law. And I feel everyone here throughly explained why they were disappointed with the story, whether you agree with them or not.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I've never been to this part of the forum before...but what?

Other than here, I've never seen any complaints about EW's story than some people thought the pacing could be better and the second trip to Laby felt a little filler to people and that EVERYONE knew the death fake-outs in Ultima were fake outs.

While those complaints are hardly nothing, they're also not supremely or critically damaging to the narrative, largely being mild annoyances marring an otherwise fantastic experience.

Is this forum out of touch with the entire rest of the community, or is this some big thing that I've somehow never heard of anywhere else?

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I can only speak for myself but on reddit complaints get drown out with downvotes pretty quickly. I had argued them citing Zenos' death in an interview was not portrayed well in game and got downvoted to oblivion making my comment hidden. A lot of the people here have cited similar things from other platforms as well. My general observation over time has made me see that if you disagree with EW you get told "Didn't read the story", "must have skipped cutscenes", "you just don't understand literature", and my personal favorite "the majority liked it so you are wrong".

A lot of people have taken refuge in this very thread for that reason, we felt outcasted for not agreeing with the "majority" and honestly if that Omega quest and the "We went too far with Magical Girl Y'shtola" is anything to go by the official forums is the best place to bring these complaints.