Should healers now be allowed to play how they choose to play?

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Originally Posted by Feyona

I would say that shows skill as a healer, but here some are saying your not a skilled healer if you dont dps. Im tending to disagree but outnumbered. And yes its possibly tha game content in question rather than skill level. I dont mind either way if someone dpses or not, but just would like the choice, like not have Im a bad lazy healer if I dont dps , and I will be kicked If I dont._. That sort of thing

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It's because if you know how to heal well, you will have time to dps. So if you're not dpsing, you're either being lazy or you don't know how to heal well. It really is that simple. In savage, after losing half my hp to a tankbuster, I've seen whms pop divine seal, cure 2, tetra, regen then they put cleric stand on and dps, and I've seen whms spam cure 1. Which ones do you think are more successful?

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

It's because if you know how to heal well, you will have time to dps. So if you're not dpsing, you're either being lazy or you don't know how to heal well. It really is that simple. In savage, after losing half my hp to a tankbuster, I've seen whms pop divine seal, cure 2, tetra, regen then they put cleric stand on and dps, and I've seen whms spam cure 1. Which ones do you think are more successful?

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yes I have to agree with your points and before I see tank buster coming I would galvanize, But your argument does not fit me into either of you categories, maybe cos I do know how to heal, and Im not lazy, Meaning I know what to do but sometimes the activity required by the content can sometimes be the deciding factor wether you can do it it that split second or whatever and its usually not required until you have learned it even in hardcore groups. Rather I am advocating patience, not expectation We all have to learn

And this is the reason for my whole argument as well as allowance for healers to heal if they want to really. Ive been in casual groups and hardcore groups, or a hardcore group that aspiers to be hardcore. Most of them do not require or demand healer dps until youve learned the fight. Its opportunity to even get to learn, another matter. Thats why I suggested disable cleric for a patch, but that idea wasnt popular ofc. Because others learn or have the opportunity to learn faster than others, but you do realise theres not that many in that bracket.

My PoV as a Raid Leader who wants to get things done asap after the patch:

Not using Cleric Stance as healer, especially as Scholar, is your playstyle choice, fair enough. But it literally equals Bards and MCHs not using WM / gauss Barrel, tanks not using DPS stance, Dragoons not keeping Blood of the Dragon up, Monk ignoring positionals.. It means you ignore important part of your class' toolkit. Healer was designed to DPS when there is nothing to heal, as said in Hall of the Novice.

Most of the Savage fights in game (when they are relevant = few weeks after the patch they release with, since after that you get overgeared) have phases when they literally require almost zero healing = those are the times when both healers should be DPSing, and then phases when both healers have to use most of the things they have at their disposal in order to make the raid survive (Holy Bleed in A12S). You need 2 healers, however, their healing power is required at very specific moments, while during most of the fight, at least Scholar or Noct Astrologian are expected to deal damage.

I am posting this video that somebody linked before me again, this is great example of healer not using half of his toolkit, and as you can see, he is not doing anything half the time. https://youtu.be/jBgMe5uHPsE?t=1s

Please note that Scholar, if played right, can deal around 800 DPS during encounters. Now imagine dealing that 800 DPS during the 10 mins long encounter. The difference is massive, during early progression days, that decides between wipe and clear, and that is why healers dealing damage are prefered so much over those who stand and do nothing. And, it is not for making up for the lack of Damage of Damage Dealers, it is damage on top of it. Skips phases, makes the fight shorter.

If you don't care about Savage at all, or you wait for more gear for it to be easier, you don't have to DPS to pass things without problems, however, expect people to be unhappy with you, since using your class' toolkit would make things so much easier for everybody involved.

I can decide to be MCH that is not using Gauss Barrel, and you can decide to be healer that never deals damage. We both will cost our raid groups roughly the same amount of damage, and we both will be like an iron ball on their legs. =P

Unless Square Enix changes their mindset behind healer classes, I am sorry, but you will be the healer that does not use half of their toolkit. if you raid group does not care, more power to you. =)

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Originally Posted by Thalen

Please note that Scholar, if played right, can deal around 800 DPS during encounters. Now imagine dealing that 800 DPS during the 10 mins long encounter.[/B]

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With some gear increases and correct substats, this has gone up to 1300-1700, just to add to the picture of the massive contribution you're giving by DPSing as healer.

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Originally Posted by Thalen

I am posting this video that somebody linked before me again, this is great example of healer not using half of his toolkit, and as you can see, he is not doing anything half the time. https://youtu.be/jBgMe5uHPsE?t=1s

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Wow. He's not doing anything for almost the entire time, not half the time. Regens sustain through a whole pull. And that's not even counting Holy stunning the mobs repeatedly (let alone killing them before they do damage). And they're not even really that geared.

...Gives me the urge to hit cleric stance on my keyboard just watching it.

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

With some gear increases and correct substats, this has gone up to 1300-1700, just to add to the picture of the massive contribution you're giving by DPSing as healer.

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Yeah, between me and my co-healer in progression, we did enough damage to equal another DPS player. It's like cheating and bringing 9 players to an 8man encounter. And we weren't even used to the fight. Farm groups get like 3200 DPS out of their healers. That's a shit load.

I'm all for people playing the way they like, but I'm tired of Tanks dying because WHM's haven't switched stances in time to heal him/her up.

If you want to DPS, DPS. But remember you're a healer first and foremost.

Otherwise, crack on!

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Originally Posted by Thalen

[B][U]My PoV

Most of the Savage fights in game (when they are relevant = few weeks after the patch they release with, since after that you get overgeared) have phases when they literally require almost zero healing

I am posting this video that somebody linked before me again, this is great example of healer not using half of his toolkit, and as you can see, he is not doing anything half the time. https://youtu.be/jBgMe5uHPsE?t=1s

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I get your point, but to be fair I think I spend 75%to 90% in cleric in there right from day two, The first time in any new content im cautious at first, to see how much damage there is. I play ast in raids and still getting used to class a bit, damage still pretty high and movement so still learning where to relax and think 'hey not needing any healing here so I can dare go cleric' Im over geared for most dungeons really its almost auto pilot. Particularly your eg. Tank pulls everthing usually,

Think I went in story mode a10 and dpsed all the way through it to practice, bar the odd heal. The co healer wasnt very happy about it though :) I just dps cos thats what team wants Ill try my hardest I can , Im not one of your awesome players though but I will always do my best effort ,