Character graphical changes are NOT in an acceptable state, please make it optional

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

Compromise. Many are looking at the existing models with heavily rose-tinted glasses. Under certain lighting in the existing game, characters look bad. More than bad, they can look terrible. The same still applies in the benchmark to some extent, hence my most recent post - there are still some unflattering lighting angles which affects our characters appearance. Now, if we selectively focus on the worst in the benchmark, for fair comparison alone, the same strict rules should be applied to the existing game. But in some cases, that's not the case. This is what is being disputed.

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Further to this:

Characters under unflattering lighting in the Benchmark:

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

https://i.imgur.com/dxyLQrt.png

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Characters under unflattering lighting in the existing game:

https://i.imgur.com/VLYfzOl.png


We can all choose selectively if it suits our point

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

Many are looking at the existing models with heavily rose-tinted glasses. Under certain lighting in the existing game, characters look bad.

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We are not disputing that characters can look bad in the current version of the game. Many people even agree with that. What we say is that they don't look the same.
Even in the most atrocious lighting scenarios I still feel like my char is my char. She looks like a terrible gremlin but I still love her.
In the benchmark she doesn't feel like the char I want, even in the best scenes.

It is frustrating when you try to calmly and respectfully explain (as many actually have) with graphs and images that something you like about your char and have liked for years, and that was a very deliberate choice during their character creation bc charm points, has objectively been changed beyond what terrible or good lighting can achieve.

And then people essentially boil it down to rose-tinted glasses, a type of irrationality.

It feels a bit hypocritical to point out the lack of patience of those who are unhappy but then accuse us of having rose-tinted glasses despite coming to the meeting with powerpoint presentations of examples. :/

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Edit:

I have written something about the lighting of the current game here. Putting it under a spoiler to not make this post unreasonably long for others.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

The thing is, yes the lighting is terrible, esp. in the first pic. But even in the creepy flashlight-to-the-face-and-telling-you-a-horror-story lighting context I can still recognise/perceive the coherence of her features and her "facial identity" if you will.

The shadows do resculpt certain parts but through that their characteristic look still shines through so to speak.
I may think "wtf is wrong with you girl - but you're still my girl" (not my char obviously, but I think you get what I mean).

For example, as weird as the eyes look, I can still perceive that the eye shape is consistent throughout all pictures. It's the same, it's just contextualised differently.
Never did I have the feeling the lighting takes what I perceive as my character's face's personality away. It may just be unflattering.

This is why I think the "it's just the lighting, move your char out of the shadows" mindset is not helpful for me.
Besides the by now well-documented point that actual features have been altered and it's not just the lighting, if lighting were to change my core perception of their identity and they'd only feel like themslves in the right light this would still lead to a suboptimal experience.
We can't control the light in cutscenes or in environments, e.g., when we do dungeons or do quests in shady forest areas vs. well-lit plains.
So due to external forces there'd be considerable portions of the game where we would not perceive the visual core identity we have designed for our characters.

Maybe I have a strange perception in that regard but for me "unflattering" is not the same as "feels like a different person". I can live with the first one. It's how I have experienced a lot of ARR to EW and often I was like "meh this looks really weird lol" but it never felt OOC, broke my immersion or profoundly upset me.

But as soon as I saw my char in the (better lit) benchmark video I had this feeling of "no, sorry, this isn't really you :/ " and was, as a consequence, less excited and immersed in it.

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

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We can all choose selectively if it suits our point

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The current one looks like a character in bad lighting. The benchmark looks like a wax doll.

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Originally Posted by LlymlaenGreene

now I want to ask those people who look up to the Japanese forum, you claim that they just post constructive suggestions and that's it, and we just complain and that's it. But that's not the case, go read the topic carefully again, users often say that they are surprised, stunned, do not want to play their new characters, want to cancel pre-orders and so on.

Yes, they have less of it, but they get well-deserved approval *likes* for these messages, but what about us? For every critical message you receive a message in the spirit of -don't like - don't play! This is the same character, I am an artist and I know better! And I like everything, so you have to use your fanta to adjust your character) I'm fine and I don't care what you have)is she or he thinking to himself*! The company should not make concessions to everyone and so on)

Of course, again, I don't mean everyone, there are those who are happy and happy and want others to be happy with the upcoming updates, and so on, they are great!

I can continue this list indefinitely, but why do you already know all this? And that's why I think you should also look at your behavior, and not poke us into their forum. Everyone's mentalities are also different, the Japanese are very modest and even they allow themselves some emotions that I wrote about above.
The Japanese are mostly secretive people. Unlike, for example, other countries, they do not express their feelings openly.
And yes, regarding emotionality, for example, I am a very emotional and sentimental person and I do not know how to hide my emotions, and when I do this, or others do too, then why do you forbid us to do this? After all, I am talking exclusively about myself and in no way offend other members of the community and just write as it really is!

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To be honest, a lot of people just post inflammatory or contradictory things because they want a reaction and aren't interested in contributing to the conversation in any meaningful way. It's very common on the English forums regardless of the topic and gets exhausting to read.

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

We can all choose selectively if it suits our point

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https://i.imgur.com/HQIhQdg.png

I personally think Miqo players are overracting. Call me blind but the new and old are near identical to my eyes, and in most cases the new looks noticebly better.

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Originally Posted by AirisRay

Please, try to tell me that they are similar.

https://i.imgur.com/FqYorRK.png

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Hey, I just wanted to chime in as well because I know a lot of heat leaves and comes your way in particular. If it also helps you feel a little better, I also can easily spot the differences.

In the benchmark, her eyebrows have been combed and have ever-so-slightly less of an arch. Her hairline is different, due to the new head models not accommodating all of the current hairs. It rests lower on her forehead, and the sides are farther apart because the model is different. The cupid's bow of her lip is weaker, and the inner line of her mouth is straighter. The color of her bottom lip extends farther than it did before, causing the shape to look more homogeneous. She has much thicker mascara and the fat under her eyes is more defined. The star face paint has moved farther toward the front of her face--you can use her eyes as a reference. Light does appear to hit her lips in a blocky sort of way, which I'm assuming is a small error in the mapping.

I will say that she is indeed similar to eyes less used to paying attention to these things. But for you, myself, and many others, these tiny differences all adding up give an uncanny and different impression. Just focus on relaying your feelings to SE, and perhaps take a breath before doing so.

I know some people are responding with genuine confusion or curiosity, but there are a lot of people responding to anything like this in bad faith as well, regardless of one's attempts to "prove" themselves. It'll likely do your heart better to not interact with them or egg them on. I hope you're faring well, and just remember there are many people feeling the same way you do.

And yes, to be honest, it is very surprising. And I always think that ff14 has the best community, and that's really true, but in three 3 days on the forum I met and read so many toxic messages that I haven't seen in all the time I've been playing ff14. how glad I am that they are only on the forums, and there are very few of them in the game :3

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Originally Posted by Luca_

To be honest, a lot of people just post inflammatory or contradictory things because they want a reaction and aren't interested in contributing to the conversation in any meaningful way. It's very common on the English forums regardless of the topic and gets exhausting to read.

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They happen to disagree with something that you believe = they aren't contributing in a meaningful way

It is posts such as these which, rather than seek to discuss what was said, just attempt to close it down with 'it's not worth listening to' which don't contribute.

Now, where was that post asking for sympathy and understanding...

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

Don't feel discouraged. I was getting really stressed by this circus over here so I took the time to go into the JP thread and they have absolutely been giving the same feedback as us. Even me, who has a very specific complaint about Face 2 femroe, found multiple people that made posts about my worries that got a relatively high amount of upvotes. I'm sure that everyone from the more played races will have their complaints either addressed or at least acknowledged. I only went out of my way to read the Roegadyn posts, but I saw so many of other races with detailed pictures and drawings.

My best advice is to report the people being willfully antagonistic, don't reply to them. Upvote folks with good well thought out posts that have shown the issues to make sure those posts get the devs attention, and take care of yourself by walking away from time to time cause it's mentally taxing in here.

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Thank you so much for you kind words honestly. I wonder if any of them complained about the Miqo F4 nose/mouth gap/lip situation, I've been wanting to look at that thread but everytime I open it up I feel exhausted and drained. Some people on this thread and others are providing amazing paint overs etc but it feels like 'unless we're on the JP side of the forums, we're screaming into a void'. I thought about maybe using a translator and collecting what I found and posting it there but I'm honestly really scared of doing that.