Dear Healers who don't DPS

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Originally Posted by Moogly

See, exactly what I'm talking about.
Community creating rules that goes against the original dev team choice.
Taking your example, why would people stop playing war because of the stance change penalty ? Because top tier didn't like it, and people emulate the best (some do it because they know they will always be right that way...). But did that stance change penalty really made the WAR that bad, so that it was totally unplayable and definitely not suited for any high level content ? I highly doubt so.
But still, some people will kick WAR from raids : "your class is not OP". But 99% of the time, the kicker isn't at top tier level. And 50% of the time, he doesn't even understand why the WAR is bad to begin with... the community just said so...
Understand that what devs are trying to prevent, is not bad gameplay or anything.
It is that kind of community driven behaviour that sometimes lead to harassement that they're trying to prevent.

And that debate will go on forever anytime the community's choice will conflict with the developer's choice. That is because player's objective is to clear content, when developer's objective is to make the game social interactions as friendly as possible by making the game more accessible (healer DPS being considered as a high skill level playstyle).

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Actually, many stopped playing it because the penalty to stance swapping it feel cumbersome and needlessly put strain on what had been previously a near flawless rotation. Comparatively, Paladin butchered it. They had better CDs, higher damage and a much simpler rotation that didn't punish you for a mistake or if the boss jumped. Regardless, it was seen as an arbitrary change meant to force a playstyle that isn't rewarding. Shifting back to healers, the devs may dislike the community's expectations for healer DPS but they will never go away because this game simply doesn't require a pure healer. Nothing they do will prevent it short of making content demand enough healing that spending more than half your time DPS wouldn't be optimal.

Put simply, I couldn't care less. I focus on what the game functionally allows and requires. It allows for high amounts of healer DPS and requires little healing with few exceptions. Once again, while I am not going to call someone out in the middle of a dungeon, I'm also not going to call them a good healer for the same reasons I wouldn't call a tank who spammed Flash a good tank.

And therein lies the issue. DPS shouldn't be considered high skill level, which is precisely why Cleric Stance was removed. It's incredibly easy to weave in a couple dots. If you can't be arsed to do that when there is little outgoing damage, you're just lazy. There isn't any other way to put it, really. This assumes, of course, said healer isn't new to whatever content they are running.

Isn't it getting boring to discuss the least important community issue in this game?

Recently in expert roulette:

Me (SMN), other DD (NIN), Tank (PLD), Healer (WHM)

WHM DMG = was ok
PLD DMG = could be better
NIN DMG = awful, just awful
ME DMG = dealt more than the other 3 together

So are these always and everywhere discussed "Healer DPS Threads" some kind of distraction from the real issue?

I don't see much more important threads like "Dear Damage Dealers who don't deal acceptable Damage". Their amount should be a tripple or quadruple compared to healer DPS threads. The gain for all would be much higher than the always repeating completely stupid healer DPS discussuions.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

I don't see much more important threads like "Dear Damage Dealers who don't deal acceptable Damage". Their amount should be a tripple or quadruple compared to healer DPS threads. The gain for all would be much higher than the always repeating completely stupid healer DPS discussuions.

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That's what all the parser threads are about, and there are plenty of those as well. :) But this area is dedicated to healer discussions.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/63/d3/23/6...ozen-humor.jpg

Sure on bosses its ok to DPS but the the tank pulls the whole room and I have to burn 6 lustrates to keep him alive, and ET + AQ just so he doesn't die. When do you propose I get an attack spell in?

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Originally Posted by Aniond

When do you propose I get an attack spell in?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdU4tRrX984

Here's some reference material for you <3

Fun fact, I actually messed up massively on the Double Gorilla + dogs pull in Ala Mhigo and ended up dieing to a shoulder cannon. There was enough time for me to get raised by Elia and still save the tank np. Nothing was lost except my self esteem =(

If you really feel like you can barely keep up, record yourself and watch it back, you'll quickly see gaps and errors in your play that you will miss in the heat of the moment.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

So are these always and everywhere discussed "Healer DPS Threads" some kind of distraction from the real issue?

I don't see much more important threads like "Dear Damage Dealers who don't deal acceptable Damage". Their amount should be a tripple or quadruple compared to healer DPS threads. The gain for all would be much higher than the always repeating completely stupid healer DPS discussuions.

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but it's not allowed to call out DDs for terrible dps, that's harassment!

but calling out healers for terrible dps on the other hand is allowed, since you don't need a parser to see that they don't dps >.>

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

Isn't it getting boring to discuss the least important community issue in this game?

Recently in expert roulette:

Me (SMN), other DD (NIN), Tank (PLD), Healer (WHM)

WHM DMG = was ok
PLD DMG = could be better
NIN DMG = awful, just awful
ME DMG = dealt more than the other 3 together

So are these always and everywhere discussed "Healer DPS Threads" some kind of distraction from the real issue?

I don't see much more important threads like "Dear Damage Dealers who don't deal acceptable Damage". Their amount should be a tripple or quadruple compared to healer DPS threads. The gain for all would be much higher than the always repeating completely stupid healer DPS discussuions.

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It's true. But there are 2 problems:
1. We can't openly call people out on bad DPS. At best we can notice what they do wrongly (it's pain to look at their rotation all the time) and point it out. It also relies on knowing other jobs.
2. It's separate issue. On healers forum we talk about bad healers, not DDs.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

And therein lies the issue. DPS shouldn't be considered high skill level, which is precisely why Cleric Stance was removed. It's incredibly easy to weave in a couple dots. If you can't be arsed to do that when there is little outgoing damage, you're just lazy. There isn't any other way to put it, really. This assumes, of course, said healer isn't new to whatever content they are running.

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Cleric was part of the problem for those kind of healers, but the biggest issue is and was that those players most of the time just aren't confident enough to do dmg. This is an concept many, many "non-healers" can't grasp, especially talking to healers doing ex fights or savage, when they never healed them themselves or did try to do dmg there and been an burden to the co healer. We have the extrem of people, playing ever role beeing just lazy and not even trying, but many many people imo just don't have enough confident and an some toxic people community doesn't help there. Sentences/words like....

"doing dmg is easy", "healing is easy", and so on and the mindest people have towards healers are the issue. No it is not easy to play healer at the highest level getting everything out of you and your co-healer, both dealing a lot of dmg and keeping the party alive. This demands an high knowledge of classes (especially healers and tanks), the fight (mechanic + how much dmg does attack XY) and most importantly confidents in your team and especially co-healer. Also you need to want to do mistakes as stupid as it sounds, because this way you learn your limit as other roles do aswell. An dd for example staying for 1-2 gcd longer on the boss and moving in the last minute to gain uptime. He will die a few times and this has to happen in order to get better at the game. But if healers do these mistakes they will probably wipe the group. Some people i talked to, especially healers aren't lazy, but they don't want the group to wipe, because they "tested their limit".

If you want to help those healers get better at the game and pushing themselves more and more, try to help them by being patient and telling them about healers, who can help them to get better. Don't try it yourself or tell them "healing is heasy, just use cure II all the time, because it heals more. I am a tank and know what i am doing", for instance. There are to many people, despite only about 23%* of people playing healer (most of them not at the hightest level imo) telling healers what do, when they should do it and telling them not doing dmg is the bare minimum. And stop telling them main- /off heal is good. It is not :(

* http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/tekitou_m...1/810b43c8.jpg

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Originally Posted by Aniond

Sure on bosses its ok to DPS but the the tank pulls the whole room and I have to burn 6 lustrates to keep him alive, and ET + AQ just so he doesn't die. When do you propose I get an attack spell in?

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This applies specifically to WHM, but open with swiftcast holy->aero III-> holy -> holy (this stunlocks everything hit for a good 7+ seconds meaning NO DAMAGE ON THE TANK)-> Cure II if needed, and unless the tank is made out of paper (which sure, does happen on occasion) or it's aurum vale's first room, alternating holy->cure II with CDs after that will keep any passable tank up.