SE stop doing the "norm"

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Funny, I heard WoW: Kung Fu Panda Edition was actually the best expansion they have made yet. I mean, don't get me wrong, I think the game sucks, but, y'know, one mans trash and such..

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I didn't enjoy the beta, mostly because I found the new talent system terribly watered-down. "Best" expansion is certainly subjective; most people would say that BC was probably the best.

Also, "I think the game sucks" is the standard go-to for all the people who thought XI was the best thing out there, and who hated WoW even though they'd never played it.

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Originally Posted by TomCarroll

Also, "I think the game sucks" is the standard go-to for all the people who thought XI was the best thing out there, and who hated WoW even though they'd never played it.

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Everyone has played WoW. I know very few people who would say XI was the best thing out there. It had great features that other MMOs should implement. WoW had great features other MMOs should implemented too.

I think it's pretty safe to say, the MMO community as a whole is sick of Clones. Yes, a lot of people still play WoW, but no bodies wants a new WoW. That's why every WoW clone to date has failed almost as badly as FFXIV.

We need new UIs.
We need new progression systems.
We need new content types .
We need new reward systems.

But we can't throw out the baby with the Bathwater.

You can't just copy WoWs quest based leveling, UI, and Trait Trees slap on a new story and expect a success. FFXI's purist Group Combat system is well beyond accepted as dead. What we need is the best systems(Achievements, MultiClass, Simple Intuitive UIs) of the current Gen, the dedication(Real Raids, Real Penalties, Real Rewards that don't become instantly obsolete) of the Past Gen, innovative new ideas(Controller UI) and something new that no one is expecting. That is what it is going to take to be the Next big thing.

The MMO world is desperate for something Original and Scared of something different. It's a scary time for this Genre, especially for the Studios making the games.

I think WoW's unprecidented and unrepeated sucsess has hit the MMO genre very hard. People will just keep trying the WoW formula and thinking that they will get WoW's unprecidented numbers.

In all practicallity I doubt that any MMO will hit WoW numbers for a while if ever.

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I think it's pretty safe to say, the MMO community as a whole is sick of Clones.

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Sick of clones, yet people play them. the only way clones will die if the community itself stops playing the clones and kinda make those companies have an imagination.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Sick of clones, yet people play them. the only way clones will die if the community itself stops playing the clones and kinda make those companies have an imagination.

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The sad part is that most people are not playing them. Many MMOs come out with the promise of "Something new" and if they have a good name/team behind them sell gangbusters...and then in a few months when the same ol same ol rolls in people quit and the game eventually tanks or runs to the F2P shelter.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

The sad part is that most people are not playing them. Many MMOs come out with the promise of "Something new" and if they have a good name/team behind them sell gangbusters...and then in a few months when the same ol same ol rolls in people quit and the game eventually tanks or runs to the F2P shelter.

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I was referring to the F2P games the ones that never seem to die out :P. because you know... it's free!

While I agree that I'm sick of the wow-clones, the game has a very strong foundation.

I'd like to see talent trees and multiple roles within classes in FF. Not because it was successful in wow, but because I always liked character planning. It also simplified gear; gear in XI was a mess. Entire builds were based entirely on gear, and that's just not cool.

Before I played this game, I was hoping for a mix of XI and WoW. Needless to say, I got nothing from either one. The game's success isn't dependent on it being completely different from what's on the market, but it needs to bring in the stuff that works and expand upon it. Copies don't work, but you can leave an imprint that will forever be yours.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Everyone has played WoW. I know very few people who would say XI was the best thing out there. It had great features that other MMOs should implement. WoW had great features other MMOs should implemented too.

I think it's pretty safe to say, the MMO community as a whole is sick of Clones. Yes, a lot of people still play WoW, but no bodies wants a new WoW. That's why every WoW clone to date has failed almost as badly as FFXIV.

We need new UIs.
We need new progression systems.
We need new content types .
We need new reward systems.

But we can't throw out the baby with the Bathwater.

You can't just copy WoWs quest based leveling, UI, and Trait Trees slap on a new story and expect a success. FFXI's purist Group Combat system is well beyond accepted as dead. What we need is the best systems(Achievements, MultiClass, Simple Intuitive UIs) of the current Gen, the dedication(Real Raids, Real Penalties, Real Rewards that don't become instantly obsolete) of the Past Gen, innovative new ideas(Controller UI) and something new that no one is expecting. That is what it is going to take to be the Next big thing.

The MMO world is desperate for something Original and Scared of something different. It's a scary time for this Genre, especially for the Studios making the games.

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I have come to the conclusion that people will never understand the MMO genre as a whole. I explained it a few times, Yoshida explained it a few times, but understanding isn't exactly happening here in this community.

Also, since games don't have the numbers WoW does, doesn't make them failures. Right now FFXI, RIFT, AION, TERA, Guild Wars 2, Everquest 2, Lord of the Rings Online, and so on are still doing very well for themselves. You do not need WoW's numbers to be successful, at this point it is nearly impossible for other MMO's to reach WoW's success. There are so many options for MMO's nowadays it is spread out.

While not the first MMO, Blizzard was definitely there at the right place at the right time, when online gaming was getting bigger and the Warcraft name itself (Which was also one of the most popular PC games before the MMO version.), it was screaming numbers, which it did. With Warcraft, you were already appealing to a mature PC audience (at the time), and a lot were willing to pay 14.99 a month to have this experience.

And actually, I am looking forward to 2.0 mostly because it falls under the success of other MMO's with a Final Fantasy theme. @#$# me, right?

Also like to mention your unique aspects you request for were all given in the current version.

-Had its own unique clunky AI.
-Progressed in EXP/SP by smacking enemies and hopefully it gave you SP for it. Not to mention a physical level system.
-We had guildleves as a form of content.
-And you know reward system is unique, but god awful.

Unique doesn't always work out when you use it too much. I always believe the best approach to "any" genre is to reel you in with a sense of familiarity, then throw something unique at you.

FPS's - You always want that feeling and setup when you play an FPS. Bioshock is a perfect example. It gave you basic FPS concepts but brought neat concepts along with it, not to mention an incredible story and environment around you.

RPG's - Since the days of Dragon Quest, almost all RPG's have fallen under it's template, even Final Fantasy based itself off the Dragon Quest series. Can we call all turn based RPG's a clone of Dragon Quest? No. Why? Because Dragon Quest set the genre standard. Final Fantasy IV is a perfect example here. It was able to take those basic RPG concepts and templates that go back to the DQ age, and brought a unique function to it which became revolutionary, the Active Time Battle system. FFIV was able to revolutionize RPG gaming within what you call a clone of the genre.

So let me ask, why is FFXIV or other MMO's not capable of this feat? They are. FFXIV isn't using the MMO genre template to be thoughtless. No, they use it because they know it is a genre standard. What I know they are aiming to do is to create a unique system or experience within itself. Its like RE4, it took the standardized formula of a rotationg character based game and created the over the shoulder system that completely revolutionized 3rd person shooters in the industry.

I just really wish people knew how gaming genres worked. :(

WoW-clone I don't think it means what you think it means.
All genres are clones of the very first game of that class if we go with that thinking. race car games? all clones sport games? all clones FPS? all clones puzzle games? all clones RPG is not the exception yet ppl i this forum make it sound like it only happens in it lol Why be so opposite of taking only good things from other games and bring them in their own way? isn't that original too? what other game brought the best together before? :D FFXIV will be the "Avengers" the "Justice League" of RPG features to fight Boredom!!

I agree that the term "wow-clone" is thrown around a lot more often than it probably should be, but how many aspects can you derive from one game before it becomes a blatant rip-off?