Instead of cutting Ultimate from 5.5 why not cut bozja?

Just to confirm, the data for achievements / clears is being pulled form Lodestone, right? In order to be accounted for among such data, don't you have to manually go in and set up your Lodestone profile and make your achievements public? If so, the data being displayed on any of these statistical websites is showing the figures for people who have self-selected into sharing this information. My guess is that a large portion of the casual population probably does not opt to publicize such information (or let along even know about the ability to do so). If that is the case, then the data displayed on websites such as lalachievements or ffxivcollect consists of a subset of the player-base that is trying to collect such stuff. There obviously might also be collectors who simply don't want to share their achievements and set it to private, but my guess is that they are in the minority. For those websites, it's really important to understand what the numerator / denominator represent. Such websites also obviously cannot account for alts and the like.

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Originally Posted by DoH

Just to confirm, the data for achievements / clears is being pulled form Lodestone, right? In order to be accounted for among such data, don't you have to manually go in and set up your Lodestone profile and make your achievements public?

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They take the data from the Lodestone, yes. They use the mount and minion collections wich you can't hide. Every final raid tier of a patch drops a mount and if you have that mount they can confirm that you have cleared that raid turn. So the data is incorrect, yes, because there are people out there who cleared the fight but don't have the mount.

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Originally Posted by DoH

Just to confirm, the data for achievements / clears is being pulled form Lodestone, right? In order to be accounted for among such data, don't you have to manually go in and set up your Lodestone profile and make your achievements public? If so, the data being displayed on any of these statistical websites is showing the figures for people who have self-selected into sharing this information. My guess is that a large portion of the casual population probably does not opt to publicize such information (or let along even know about the ability to do so). If that is the case, then the data displayed on websites such as lalachievements or ffxivcollect consists of a subset of the player-base that is trying to collect such stuff. There obviously might also be collectors who simply don't want to share their achievements and set it to private, but my guess is that they are in the minority. For those websites, it's really important to understand what the numerator / denominator represent. Such websites also obviously cannot account for alts and the like.

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It appears lalachievements and the other one does. Mounts are visible by default so unless you set your profile profile to private then I assume luckybancho will add it to the statistics.

For raiders, alts don't usually have a the mount they usually just use it to quickly gear up their mains for double loot. Plus I'm pretty sure most people don't even raid on their alts anyways which skews the numbers down more.

As Ultimate doesn't have a mount or a minion, we have to go by public cheeve data to determine clears. Objectively the number is usually higher than what is known.

Sort of the same for those who clear savage. It's also slightly underreported despite the mount being public. Not everyone gets the mount after clearing because it's 1x per week, per eligible clear, and some don't stay in their groups for 8-weeks for everyone to get the mount. Some never re-enter and clear even after the savage becomes unlocked. So this number is likely a bit higher too.

Regardless, 25-30% of people on JP servers clear savage makes some Crystal NA non-raiders jaws drop at how behind that data center as a whole is, as they prefer other content. You also have an easier time recruiting people and clearing savage through PuGs on the other two NA data centers anyway of the week, that's a fact that still can't be disputed. Basically they have no room to talk to say only a small people in the game do savage or ultimate.

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Originally Posted by technole

As Ultimate doesn't have a mount or a minion, we have to go by public cheeve data to determine clears. Objectively the number is usually higher than what is known.

Sort of the same for those who clear savage. It's also slightly underreported despite the mount being public. Not everyone gets the mount after clearing because it's 1x per week, per eligible clear, and some don't stay in their groups for 8-weeks for everyone to get the mount. Some never re-enter and clear even after the savage becomes unlocked. So this number is likely a bit higher too.

Regardless, 25-30% of people on JP servers clear savage makes some Crystal NA non-raiders jaws drop at how behind that data center as a whole is, as they prefer other content. You also have an easier time recruiting people and clearing savage through PuGs on the other two NA data centers anyway of the week, that's a fact that still can't be disputed. Basically they have no room to talk to say only a small people in the game do savage or ultimate.

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Th truth is, only the devs know. If they see the numbers doing it, and don't find it worth the effort, then who are we to demand it? They know the numbers, they know the time and effort investment needed to produce said content.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Th truth is, only the devs know. If they see the numbers doing it, and don't find it worth the effort, then who are we to demand it? They know the numbers, they know the time and effort investment needed to produce said content.

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This is exactly the reason. There is always the cost of time invested in creating something versus the amount it is used.

Any business that opens a new venture(Ultimate is, ultimately - no pun intended, a new-ish venture for FFXIV, and if the amount of revenue from people subbing to do it isn't high enough - and only SE will see the metrics of this btw - then they are likely to cut it and invest the time spent on it to something else, whether that be in FFXIV or a different project) must weigh the benefits and the costs associated to it. It's like a restaurant opening a new location, if it isn't bringing in enough revenue to off-set the costs of the running of it, they will close it and move on to some other venture in hopes of bringing in more money.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

This is exactly the reason. There is always the cost of time invested in creating something versus the amount it is used.

Any business that opens a new venture(Ultimate is, ultimately - no pun intended, a new-ish venture for FFXIV, and if the amount of revenue from people subbing to do it isn't high enough - and only SE will see the metrics of this btw - then they are likely to cut it and invest the time spent on it to something else, whether that be in FFXIV or a different project) must weigh the benefits and the costs associated to it. It's like a restaurant opening a new location, if it isn't bringing in enough revenue to off-set the costs of the running of it, they will close it and move on to some other venture in hopes of bringing in more money.

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There is also the fact that not any battle designer can do an ultimate, and the designers they have worked through the ranks have experience in savage content. So they already have to do the new savage in 6.0, and ultimate designer comes from the same pool. So it's not like they decided to throw end-game under the bus. It's just there is only so much capacity for it. Nawagawa says the work is taxing, and it's hard to train a QA in an ultimate fight remotely. It's like training a new raid group to do this content blind lol.

SE has also had turnover in this department, Kenji Sudo designed UCoB and some of the most famous savage fights in this game and he left. You can imagine the loss of their experience may have been a factor why YoshiP completely rolled back from the distant idea of 3 ultimates in one expansion.

Yeah, and this last round of Bozja was pretty bare bones and brainless, even compared to the previous zone.


Sad!

Maybe because less than 1% of players will participate in ultimate content while almost every player at endgame will do Foray content at least to just try it out? It’s an unfortunate truth that ultimate content really just isn’t that important, unlike Forays which are the backbone of endgame content for the entire playerbase.

Zadnor and the Nier raid part 3 could have both been cut for what they ended up being.

One was a half baked rushed zone full of bugs and balance issues, the other was an already "overstaying it's welcome" ad failure.