Highly Notorious Monsters

I never botted in any form but the fact that you are against every bit of these ideas proves that you must have sucked at XI or had no friends. I only did HNM just a brief bit but rl came before it, but i wouldnt dare deprive someone that wants likes or might enjoy it just because i couldnt do it as much as i wanted to. And btw i know bcnm and such were instanced and i loved to do them i never complained about instances. I simply just said let the ppl that want to stay with dungeons stay with them and leave the rest of us alone with for wish for HNM, or would you rather there be Anti instance thread started so you might have a chance to make a real point about anything.

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I don't think you actually played FFXI, or WoW. I however, played both.

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Yeah, you're funny. I played FFXI since day 1. My account is still active. I played WoW for a few years after it came out (and quit because it was boring as hell and the endgame community was 10x more oppressive than FFXIs was.

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If you think that in FFXI, only 1-5% of the community participated in endgame content..

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I don't think it, I know it. Because it's a fact- a fact of virtually all MMOs. The VAST MAJORITY of players do NOT end up experieincing such superbosses that we call HNMs.

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They are all Notorious Monsters.....

Zeni Notorious Monster
Burning Circle Notorious Monster
Kindred Seal Notorious Monster...

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This thread is asking for Highly Notorious Monsters. Not BCNMs and KSNMs. Did you not read the title of this thread????
I'd LOVE to have BCNMs. I would NOT love to have world spawn HNMs.

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Define a small amount of people sir. Because I think alot more than a "small" amount of people are interested in HNM's.

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You think wrong, my good sir. FFXIV likely has a higher percentage than the average because of how small the playerbase is (and the dedication level of those that currently remain). But it's still far from something everyone wants to participate in or even a majority.

Let's make it big, bold and clear. I'm ONLY, ONLY ONLY ONLY talking about world spawn HNMs. world spawn HNMs does NOT include instanced boss battles (KSNM, BCNM, ENM etc), nor does it include the majority of force pop content. If you can't understand what I'm talking about after this post, you never will and you may as well stop responding because we're going to be talking in circles forever.

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I never botted in any form but the fact that you are against every bit of these ideas proves that you must have sucked at XI or had no friends.

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No, it doesn't prove that, however your post likely proves that for you, because of how rude and insulting you're being.

I was part of a major HNM linkshell for many years, and fought nearly every HNM in the game before Voidwatch with the exception of Pandy Warden and Dark Ixion. We were all legitimate players and most of us had eventually quit because we were sick of how rampant the botting got. Think before you insult, please and thank you.

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I only did HNM just a brief bit but rl came before it,

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What HNM did YOU do? List them specifically, thanks.

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75% of people didn't get past level 10? Tell me Lodestone Official Forums, how long does it take for one to get to level 10 in WoW (less than a couple of hours).

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This is completely true and there was an article written on it somewhere. Yes, even though it might only take an hour or two to reach level 10, the vast majority characters created in the game never reached that level. There's something called a conversion rate in MMOs. It's the rate at which people actually subscribe and continue playing past the free trial.

25% is actually a very good conversion rate in the industry. You have no idea what you're talking about.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I don't think it, I know it. Because it's a fact- a fact of virtually all MMOs. The VAST MAJORITY of players do NOT end up experieincing such superbosses that we call HNMs.

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That's unfortunate for them, but the ones of us who worked hard, and got to that point really enjoyed it! Also, please don't call "facts" without being able to prove them. You have absolutely no idea what the exact range of numbers/percentages of the population were involved with end-game HNM content. Your assumptious numbers, do not equal facts.

Just because some people aren't cut out for it, and like to make up reasons, and also make up facts about how bad the system is that they don't like, is no reason to prohibit the playerbase that loves the content from experiencing it.

And we are not just talking about Open-World HNM content. Yes, the Title is highly notorious monsters, but we have branched out into all aspects of notorious monsters.

I will tell you what I have told the handful of others like you:

If you don't want to camp the HNM's, don't. However, the rest of us will. Hopefully there will be enough content in the post-2.0 FFXIV that you will be able to choose.

Fafnir/Nidhogg Jorgoumand Vrta Serket KB/B Sandworm Ixion, Sky,Sea, Cerb Khimara Hydra and even though you dont count them as HNM Proto Omega/Ultima, Sadly never seen Dyna Lord.

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Just because some people aren't cut out for it, and like to make up reasons, and also make up facts about how bad the system

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We don't make up reasons. They're valid, good reasons, and the facts are real facts, not made up.

FFXI's HNM system (again. ONLY HNMs. NOT BCNMS KSNMS ETC!!!!) was terribad. We kept doing it because we wanted the drops badly enough to keep at it, not because it was fun battling cheaters to get the claim on the monster.

BCNMs and the like are a completely seperate topic. I'd love to have those, lots and lots of them. The only thing I'm against is HNMs that are world spawns with long repop timers. Rewards from content should be rare because the content is challenging, not because you have to wait a million years just to get to experience the fight one time.

World spawning HNMs would be tolerable if they spawned frequently enough that you didn't have 100 people packed in a fishbowl all mashing provoke as hard as they can for 2 minutes every 30 minutes. But I'd still rather do BCNM/force pop content.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

We don't make up reasons. They're valid, good reasons, and the facts are real facts, not made up.

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Please post documentation that will validate your claims. Until then they remain your assumptions.

Also, we kept at it. That aspect, in and of itself kept many, many people out there on the HNM scene. I'm not saying I liked the timers (we dont wan't any more long respawn timers), but it kept people subscribed, and in game.

During Zilart, which primarily was SKY/HNM/Dynamis for endgame, there were a little over 200,000 people subbed (this was late 2004). Players leveled up, geared themselves adequately enough so that they could work their way into that content.

Comparitively, FFXIV has around 10-12,000 subscriptions. Seems like they were doing something right in their prior MMO.

Can you honestly tell me that HNM's would hurt FFXIV's chance for future success?

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Can you honestly tell me that HNM's would hurt FFXIV's chance for future success?

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Hurt? No. But their impact on the game as far as attracting new customers and getting people to play and keep playing will be minimal at best.

The number of people that will play HNMs, regardless of how good or bad they are, is not going to be high compared to the total playerbase. Their ability to influence the game as a whole will be limited in either direction.

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During Zilart, which primarily was SKY/HNM/Dynamis for endgame, there were a little over 200,000 people subbed (this was late 2004).

Comparitively, FFXIV has around 10-12,000 subscriptions. Seems like they were doing something right in their prior MMO.

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You're right- but that "something" that was right was a lot of things, it wasn't just or even mostly HNMs. Please, quit pretending that HNMs were the sole/primary reason that hundreds of thousands of people played FFXI. If that were true, there would have been 1000 people in the dragon's aery every fafnir pop instead of 100-200.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

FFXI's HNM system (again. ONLY HNMs. NOT BCNMS KSNMS ETC!!!!) was terribad. We kept doing it because we wanted the drops badly enough to keep at it, not because it was fun.

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The implementation of FFXI HNM system wasn't the best. It encouraged botting and required standing at one spot for hours spamming one ability every 30 mins or so.

However, bringing open world (H)NMs in XIV doesn't have to mean implementing them exactly the same way they were in XI. There can be open world HNMs you can't really camp because their pop conditions are so random, for example. But when you do see one, it's such a rare occasion that you will feel really excited and hurry to gather your linkshell to kill it.

I guess if you don't like any competition of any kind between player groups, I can understand why you don't like the idea of open world HNMs. But does that mean other players shouldn't have them either? Personally, I can't stand PvP and was really against implementing it in XIV, but now I just think let others have their thing and I'll do something I'm more into. Not all content has to be for everyone, but the more variety the better, in my opinion.

I wasn't a HNM player in XI (nor will I be one in XIV). That didn't mean I didn't want them to exist. As I've previously stated, I feel open world HNMs (and other open world content) would make the game world feel more alive.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Hurt? No. But their impact on the game as far as attracting new customers and getting people to play and keep playing will be minimal at best.

The number of people that will play HNMs, regardless of how good or bad they are, is not going to be high compared to the total playerbase. Their ability to influence the game as a whole will be limited in either direction.

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Well sir, I think I speak for many here when I say that I am sorry that you feel the way you do. I appreciate your opinions, and hopefully you enjoy your time in FFXIV, regardless of what kind of content is implemented.

Rather than have us compare our opinions for the next couple of pages, I would like to re-direct the thread back to the topic, of which is HNM's and their possible implementation.

I edited the OP with the "Token" system, which would alleviate some issues with low/horrid drop rates, and would cater more towards the "Work=Reward" type system.

Any additional ideas/opinions are welcome.