Technically speaking, there is no "need" for you to do a lot things in this game. Heck, even the way you are moving your character can be widely inefficient and cost upwards of 1 minute of a run in comparison to someone who might know the map so well that they play faster cause they get to everything and DPS everything those few seconds sooner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynfael
Someone who has the skill to achieve things can and will do so, but my view is that in this case, I don't see a Healer not DPSing as a terrible plight against how you should play your character and to that end, we disagree. Not just that, but a lot of people simply just don't have the nerves to pull this off or even efficiently, the expectation when the game isn't designed around it intentionally I find to be having too much expectations of what someone can and will do in PUGs.
Actually, just because you are capable of doing it doesn't mean it isn't technically disruptive or even subjectively to someone's gameplay. Even though I play around Cleric Stance all the time where it's second nature, I actually find it cumbersome each time I have to stance dance even though I can easily execute DPS and swap and heal, or when I make a mistake, throw a Benediction. Even in that regard I dislike the idea of "Cleric Stance" and feel that if it didn't exist, a lot more people would be comfortable DPSing as Healer.Quote:
Weaving in DPS while you monitor the fight is not disruptive to anyone's flow of gameplay if done correctly; there is a reason why Cleric Stance is an oGCD ability. When there is no need for consecutive healing actions, it should become natural to fill the time with supporting DPS.
It was relevant in regards to their opinion on pretty much "Wow, can anyone tell me how just Healing in a game is enjoyable? How can you enjoy Healing without DPS? It's boring.". And regarding "standing", it's not merely just standing to that person, as stated previously if someone is healing and aware of their surroundings and are trying, even if they muster less moves it doesn't mean it's merely just standing mentally to them. A lot of people misconstrue how most of us who post on these forums are actually widely more efficient or better at the game at the majority of players who play and consider that to be the norm when it clearly isn't the case.Quote:
Also, whether or not one finds using attack magic to be "dull and unexciting" is irrelevant in the context of gameplay discussion (even though I'm not sure how standing still beats attacking in terms of excitement). It's objectively true that, in this game, better healers support the party with their full kits; a "healing-only" healer can never meet their full potential. While it's possible for a player to be great at healing without contributing DPS, it is not possible for a player to be great at the healer role that way.
As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.
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01-03-2017, 06:03 AMKokonoeAiyoko
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01-03-2017, 06:09 AMRennies
That's part of why I'd be fine with Healers having their damage scale off Mind. People always think it's dangerous to use it.
They probably will remove it, with 4.0's button bloat reduction. -
01-03-2017, 06:17 AMKokonoeAiyoko
And with those posts I'm finally done with this topic. I feel as if in such a defining topic as this, no matter what words are said, no one will be outright swayed and that's fine as I'm not going to be swayed myself as I feel very strongly about this.
I just hope that people will understand that players of all skill levels play this game and to please not take out your frustrations on someone in a PUG run just because they aren't playing as efficient as you'd like. Negativity doesn't make better or more efficient players. -
01-03-2017, 06:32 AMTaika
People of all skill levels play this game, yes, but somehow less is required from healers than the other roles, according to you. It's ok for healers to do nothing while they "plan ahead", and "stay aware of their surroundings", but tanks and DDs are required to not only do that but also keep using their abilities in a meaningful way to advance the group's goal. It's just not fair, healers should be asked to do their part too.
In the Xelphatol run I linked a video from earlier, where I was only healing as WHM, I was active 17% of the whole dungeon while the rest of my group members were active 72-77% of the dungeon. And this was with an item level less than 250 (249 I think). It's just not fair for your group members to do this, and you wouldn't defend this kind of behaviour from any other role. -
01-03-2017, 06:54 AMCynfaelHow about we try to keep the hyperbole down to a minimum? You can't dismiss a reasonable discussion of what is efficient and desirable in gameplay by countering with such a ridiculous exaggeration.Quote:
Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko
It's not second nature if you find it cumbersome each time you do it. Maybe you're just trying to say that you dislike the way Cleric Stance works, which is fine; I'm actually wondering if CS is one of the things they will look at to reduce button bloat in 4.x.Quote:
Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko
I'm sorry, but again, this is not defensible. Regardless of what the person thinks they are doing, standing there waiting to heal reactively is exactly that. I expect new healers to play this way since they genuinely don't know when damage is coming and how high it will be, but some players retain this bad habit well past the point where they should have cared enough to remember an encounter and play accordingly.Quote:
Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko
This may be the one major point in this discussion on which we agree, but on the other hand, I don't recall a lot of people suggesting in this thread that harassing healers in duties is an acceptable or productive way to get them to play better.Quote:
Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko
Still waiting for some measure of proof of this kind of statement that doesn't involve taking developer comments grossly out of context.Quote:
Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko
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01-03-2017, 07:01 AMJudge_XeroThis reminds me of a Dave Chapelle skit I watched once on Womens Clothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko
"Just because I have these skills, does NOT mean I should use them."
But seriously. Low healing requirement, check. DPS arsenal, check. Things die by DPS and not HPS, check.
If this game is not designed with Healer DPS in mind, they sure make it confusing on how it isn't. -
01-03-2017, 07:04 AMMaltothorisHere's what they mean by that. It's not they didn't design the game with healer dps in mind. It's that they don't account for when designing a boss. As in, the boss doesn't have more health to account for healer dps. That being said, they never said it wasn't wrong for healers to dps. They just didn't make the dps checks based with healer dps for consideration.Quote:
Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko
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01-03-2017, 07:07 AMRenniesNobody's being negative, but if I see someone AFKing in my runs I'll votekick them.Quote:
Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko
And no, that's not negative, that's called being fair. I'll waste your time if you waste mine. -
01-03-2017, 07:20 AMCanadane
Standing around waiting for the next heal moment, when it's not necessary to be at 100% HP. A healers job isn't to keep someone at 100%, it's to keep them alive and help the party move things along. Your tank isn't going to die from being at 90%, 80% or even 30% HP.
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01-03-2017, 07:27 AMVanilleFangThere are many reasons I'm against this. I know it's a bit off topic but here are a few of those reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rennies
1. SCH and SMN have the same class abilities. They could probably make a work around, but I think it would be unnecessary coding bloat for the game.
2. Dumbed down Healer game play. One of the things I love about healing is when you are fighting anything on a group you have to learn how to properly weave CS to deal the most damage possible.
3. Game Balance. Each stat has a use. MND being used the same as INT defeats the need for INT. Why wouldn't they just remove both stats and just put them under one stat then? That way dps caster can heal too.
4. Catering to casuals. I am not hardcore by any stretch of the imagination. I am actually a fairly casual FFXIV player, but we do not need more things on this game being changed just to cater to the wants of the unskilled or inexperienced. There needs to be something that separates those who practice and work hard.