What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Am I mistaken, or was my last post here deleted? Did something happen? It seems a few posts have gone...

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I've been told if you quoted someone who had their post reported/removed then your reply gets deleted too, so perhaps that's what happened? It's unfortunate, I recently had that happen and since then I've tried to be more careful when quoting people if I quote them at all.

I noticed a few posts here the past couple of days had profanity, probably something to keep an eye out for as it wouldn't surprise me if some people are being petty and looking for technicalities.

I'm hoping it's a sign that someone is taking on the colossal task of reading through the thread to compile some of our feedback.

Same, I do hope some of My criticism was decent at least, I oftne find i tend to flail on big criticisms but I find that I am quite decent at pointing out some kinds of issues like with the loporobbits

Maybe if we criticize the story as brutally as possible they'll finally feel ashamed and rewrite it entirely :sadgies:

My primary hopes are they quit pushing Venat/Hydaelyn as good and the Ancients as having deserved their fate. I don't expect a rewrite, but characters and text in the game (as well as the short stories I'm apprehensive about) can at least stop referring to that tragedy as a positive thing (or ideally even a reasonable course of action). ShB was much more nuanced. The journal entry for the Shadowbringers quest reads: "You wage a titanic battle not only against Hades, but the hopes and dreams of Ascian-kind, of which he is the keeper. In the end, however, your own unwavering conviction brings the ancient being low. You have done a great and terrible thing."

Plus there's Pandemonium, which has been another source of concern because the dialog with Themis seems to suggest that Azem knows about sundered self and that is definitely crossing a line for me. I suspect Yoshi-P thought everyone would love Venat and the idea of working with her and... no. I'm frustrated, to say the least, that after the neutral Azem we were presented with in ShB who chose neither side that there are some implications we did side with her after all (not to mention us outright siding with her in EW despite the fact that Hydaelyn represents everything the WoL and the Scions have historically been opposed to).

I'm going to state this in bold print: Azem working with Venat is so inconsistent with everything we know of the Azem soul that I would consider it a character and game breaking retcon.

Anyone who feels differently, I invite to replay through the game. I have been on an alt. Pay particularly close attention to the dialog surrounding the WoL, such as Thancred saying they fight for friends not nations, and basically Ardbert's entire arc in HW. Azem siding with Venat means the betrayal of everyone they love and it just wouldn't happen.

I get the impression after EW that Yoshi-P's vision of the WoL is a traveling murder hobo and I think the character and the story has been undermined as a result.

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Originally Posted by DevonEllwood

I've seen the Buddhist approach before and I feel I need to comment on it. I was in a borderline Christian school and I once asked someone, a very Christian person, why mean people exist. She said " If mean people didn't exist, then how would you know the nice people are actually nice?". Christianity states that suffering is inevitable just like so many other religions and beliefs in the world. It's not unique to Buddhism and it's not a novel concept. Isn't Buddhism suppose to reject all pleasures and desires, including closeness with others because they're why suffering exists? We literally defeat a giant space chicken with the power of friendship. Isn't Nirvana the end of suffering? Or is there something I'm not understanding?

Religions have various statements on suffering and they can boil down it's going to happen in life. Get used to it. Some of them have some kind of "end" to suffering in some form or another. Suffering can be argued as being one of the main reasons religion exists to begin with. People suffer and they want to know why, so they come up with something.

It's not like Japan is not know for using western religions in their media anyway. Seeing Endwalker as a thrown from paradise story as people have already explained isn't seeing it through a "western lens". It's literally what it is.

Also if this thread is re-made, can the first post please incorporate more of the different complaints with Endwalker?



This just reminds me just how stupid the story is. And it doesn't include the moon being a spaceship.

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I'm sorry that you were put through that.

Religious schools are just a place to brainwash people into hating themselves and have no right to exist.

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Originally Posted by anhaato

Maybe if we criticize the story as brutally as possible they'll finally feel ashamed and rewrite it entirely :sadgies:

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Pretty sure you're just a vocal minority tho, and that they won't change anything to please you. Just reading out of spite and boredom but the mere fact you want to criticize something "as brutally as possible" and think it's possible to rewrite a story entirely says a lot about y'all.

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

Pretty sure you're just a vocal minority tho, and that they won't change anything to please you. Just reading out of spite and boredom but the mere fact you want to criticize something "as brutally as possible" and think it's possible to rewrite a story entirely says a lot about y'all.

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"You're just a minority".
Skims a page and decides that one poster making a half-serious post means we all want to usurp the innocent writers.

Everytime sometime tries this, it only steels my resolve even more!

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

My primary hopes are they quit pushing Venat/Hydaelyn as good and the Ancients as having deserved their fate. I don't expect a rewrite, but characters and text in the game (as well as the short stories I'm apprehensive about) can at least stop referring to that tragedy as a positive thing (or ideally even a reasonable course of action).

I'm going to state this in bold print: Azem working with Venat is so inconsistent with everything we know of the Azem soul that I would consider it a character and game breaking retcon.

I get the impression after EW that Yoshi-P's vision of the WoL is a traveling murder hobo and I think the character and the story has been undermined as a result.

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Yup, same. Unless Azem thinks subjecting everyone she/he knows to an apocalypse that is intended fully to kill everything but is narrowly avoided at a great cost, then subjecting his two best friends to 12k years of heartbreak/being stuck inside of a primal is totally for their own good.

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

Pretty sure you're just a vocal minority tho, and that they won't change anything to please you. Just reading out of spite and boredom but the mere fact you want to criticize something "as brutally as possible" and think it's possible to rewrite a story entirely says a lot about y'all.

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No, I’m the center of the universe, it’s all about me me me. And when they rewrite the story to fit my tastes alone I’ll make sure to mention forums user ArcaviusGreyashe in the credits as the one I wanted to spite the most.

You people are so easy. Hope we gave you some good reading material, maybe when you’re done “reading out of spite” you’ll have developed some taste.

Somehow I never really considered how Azem played into this whole mess until now, and now I'm left feeling baffled by how Yoshi seemingly dismissed the importance of what they had been doing in the period before/after the Final Days.

We know from their story about charging into an active volcano to stop it that they would go to extreme lengths to help people, that they seemed to find the sacrifices needed to summon Zodiark unacceptable even in the face of imminent destruction, and that they refused to take a side once Venat's faction and the Convocation were at odds with each other.

I feel like if they had known about the Sundering, they would not have just idly stood by unless we're dealing with some even deeper layers of causal loop shenanigans and they're also tied up in this mess somehow. Their knowing of our arrival to aid Themis/Elidibus is making me entertain possibilities that I would really rather not have come to fruition; the worst one being that they end up being revealed to be the "old friend" who sent Venat on an errand to Elpis specifically to set off the events there after we end up having to travel back in time again to solve some new problem and give them the long talk about what we're doing there.