This is why this game should'nt get a parse

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

And i know many wow players that were complaining about it when it came out.

If someone is curious how it looked like in WoW i propose to read this article from a Wow journalist, explained how the meteric combat log affected the dungeons.
https://www.engadget.com/2010/01/23/...te-dps-meters/

Its not a coincidence that many mmorpgs are just punishing or prohibiting using addons like these.

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Uhm, have you actually read the article? Like properly?

It's hardly a scathing critique of meters and parsing etc.

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Originally Posted by Engadget Article

Now, about 2,000 words in, I have come to a realization. I don't actually hate DPS meters. I've focused largely upon their failings in the environment of the new random dungeon finder. In a traditional raiding environment, though, they're must-have tools. You have an organized group, taking on challenging content, and it's vital to know if somebody can't pull their weight in an extended combat encounter. It's important to know if you have enough DPS to swap one out for an additional healer or off-tank, or if your DPS is lacking and you need to replace members, or ask somebody to change specs. No, I guess I don't hate damage meters.

I hate the people who misuse them.

So the next time you glance over and realize that LolpallyXxX is only throwing down 1k DPS in heroic Nexus, and you're suddenly struck by the urge to link his meager numbers to the rest of the group, stop. Take a breath. Look around. Are the mobs dying? Is the run going smoothly? Are you in heroic freaking Nexus? If you're nodding your head to those questions, you need to reconsider your motivation.

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Isn't that what most of the pro parse crowd are saying as well? =s

Because a game is well known for its community. If the community becomes toxic because of parsers, was it worth it to add it in the first place.

I think personal parses are fine, and for Ultimate group parsing is fine.

But there is a thin line where parsing can be used for harassment. Which can lead to a toxic community.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Because a game is well known for its community. If the community becomes toxic because of parsers, was it worth it to add it in the first place

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SE cracks down on harassment issues relatively well. So what else is to speak against if they remain as adamant as they are now when it comes to that?

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Originally Posted by Derio

Because a game is well known for its community. If the community becomes toxic because of parsers, was it worth it to add it in the first place.

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The community doesn't "become toxic" because of a parser. Should I give you some examples? I once had a DRG in 3.1 get angry at me, to the point of harassing me after the dungeon, because I greeded tank gloves. Ya. Over some stupid gloves because he wanted them, but didn't say a word. Tell me what parser did that? Should I talk about the fc chest stealing? I wonder what parser does that. Or maybe emote spamming the chat since that's marked under harassment? What parser's making that happen?

Harassment already exists. Adding a parser won't increase it. Adding a parser instead lets us have info, and might actually make the toxicity DROP since some people that like to bark loudly and harass don't have numbers to back it up. If someone's screaming at a healer for not doing dps, but is last on the damage meter, we can make him shut up, but right now if we did that we'd be considered WORSE than that guy according to Square.

literally every other post has the word "toxic" and/or harrassment in it.

Do that many people really not want to play a class well that they arent willing to listen to criticism? Also criticism =/= harassment. There should be open dialogue between party members. Also, considering we can play every class on one character the whole "My alt is a MNK i know what im talking about" doesnt apply, as u can check their profile. Maybe the level 70 actually could help you >.>

I know it's anecdotal, but people who say that recount was a problem, I could say that all the years I played WoW (vanilla til WoD) I never encountered anything negative in regards to recount. I even dabbled in the raiding scene. The only harassment I saw was people yelling at others to execute mechs properly, and some situations in shout chat where people kinda talked down women and "HA! Girls don't play wow".

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Uhm, have you actually read the article? Like properly?

It's hardly a scathing critique of meters and parsing etc.

Isn't that what most of the pro parse crowd are saying as well? =s

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Its only a disclaimer for him, so he will not be tomato thrown by the wow community. Read the article further on his analysis.

Should i really cite the parts of article...

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They breed an unnecessary sense of intra-group competition.

So let's look at the reasons a person might feel obligated to link the damage meter in party chat:
They were asked to do so by someone who doesn't have Recount installed, but would like to know how they are doing. In this case, I usually just whisper the numbers to that specific individual.
They were topping the chart, and wanted everyone to know it.
They want to point out someone's perceived sub-par performance to the group.
They are the tank and want to shame the DPS by notifying them that the tank is outperforming them.
They suffer from muscle spasms, and accidentally clicked the wrong button.
Of those five reasons, one is justifiable, one is improbable, and the other three mean you are a prick.

The first time somebody links Recount in chat, the group dynamic instantly changes. Suddenly it's on. The game condenses down to a single gnawing imperative: I must lead that meter. Whoever is last on the list instantly feels terrible. They may not have anywhere near the gear they need to outperform the other two DPS members of the party, but they feel bad about it just the same, because if you linked, you clearly want them to know how badly they're doing. The person topping the group feels good about themselves, but might also begin to resent the underperforming members of the group, feeling that they aren't pulling their weight. The group atmosphere goes, in one fell swoop, from cooperative to toxic.

What was the point of linking it? The answer, of course, is my fourth reason for hating damage meters:

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Its only a disclaimer for him, so he will not be tomato thrown by the wow community. Read the article further on his analysis.

Should i really cite the parts of article...

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To be frank, if the article’s author says “I hate damage meters”, then 2,000 words later says “I don’t hate them”, and then says, later on, “I hate damage meters” again, that just shows indecisiveness and incoherence on their part, and a lot of inconsistency in their argument. It doesn’t really serve as a solid argument for or against parsers, anecdotalness of the entire article aside.

Edit: Now that I’m free to further comment, here is, what I feel, the main argument of the entire article:

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Originally Posted by Linked Article

Now, before you tune out completely and start sharpening the pitchforks, let me clarify. I understand and appreciate the positive uses for damage meters. I have Recount installed on all my characters and use it liberally. Here are the things damage meters are good for:

Monitoring your own DPS.
Using the meter to help you when tweaking specs, gear setups, or testing spell rotations.
In raids.

Here are things damage meters should not be used for:

Linking in party chat during a random PUG, without being asked to do so.
Determining who's a good DPS and who isn't.
Justifying a vote-kick.

I almost feel like I could distill this entire column down into one sentence: don't be a douche.

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This argument is what several of the “pro-parser” posters on the forum argue: there is nothing wrong with parsers if they are used responsibly, and that it is wrong for people to blatantly misuse and abuse them. This article, in its entirety, is not “anti-parser”; it is “anti parser abuse”. The author is basically saying what everyone else has been saying: it’s fine if you use parsers, but don’t be a tool about it. Harassment is still unacceptable. Yes, they point out the downsides of using them, but look at Sebazy’s quote—they don’t actually dislike the parser itself, but the misuse of it. There is a difference.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Its only a disclaimer for him, so he will not be tomato thrown by the wow community. Read the article further on his analysis.

Should i really cite the parts of article...

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This is equal parts selective reading as it is cherry picking. You've quoted only the portions which agree with your already bias opinion yet taken them out of context. The author closes by acknowledging the value of damage meters, admits to using one and conclusions by basically saying, "I hate people who misuse them."

Try actually reading the fully article next time and not just quote parts you like. ;)

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Originally Posted by TroySoFab

No parser please, I enjoy only pressing one button and watching anime while I play.

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You already watch an anime by playing FF14.