How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

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01-19-2016, 12:19 AM
Zeviand

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erys

BL-HT-Impuls-(B4B+IR)-Dis-(BotD+PS)-C-Jump-4-Geirskogul-Phleb-DFD-True-SSD-Vorp-(Leg+LS)-T4 and rotato.

Is it really that bad? I just don't want to be a hassle to my party and pull my weight XD

I wouldn't worry too much about the opener. Some savage fights last in the 10-12 minute range so your opener will account for very little dps. The advanced opener relies on having a good connection so that you can weave 2 ogcds without clipping your next gcd. I was in the Middle East for 6 months and had to use a rotation similar to yours and still did enough damage to clear all of savage. For your ilevel your numbers seems to be good. You'll definitely have to learn how to incorporate potion into your rotation eventually though.

With all that being said, I encourage you to keep trying to master the advanced opener unless your connection speeds a limitation.
01-19-2016, 01:05 AM
whiskeybravo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erys

BL-HT-Impuls-(B4B+IR)-Dis-(BotD+PS)-C-Jump-4-Geirskogul-Phleb-DFD-True-SSD-Vorp-(Leg+LS)-T4 and rotato.

It's not that bad per se, but maybe this logic will help you out a bit

(since he's already double-weaving I'll assume it's not an issue)

Precasting BL is OK, but for B4B, the best spot mathematically to put it is after Heavy Thrust, this catches ID through 2nd 4th. You're popping it later which means you're getting another buffed HT instead of ID, minor 10 potency difference, but that's the logic behind it anyways.

Your first 4th, you CT> Jump > 4th. I really try to hold Jump until after the 4th unless it procs Wheeling while I'm already at the rear after CT. The animation delay from jump will most likely cause you to miss the positional bonus on 4th hit.

So, it's not bad by any means really, just a few little things you could do to optimize if you so desire.
01-19-2016, 04:02 AM
Ninjah2r

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erys

Ello, guys. Looking for the most experienced players to sort me out.
My problem is, dervy's advanced opener is uncomfortable to me (as derp as this sounds) so I pull what I'd call a "i should be doing better" number everytime.
1300 on faust nm and up to 1400 in bosses in arboretum at i204. Still haven't got into AS because we are still organizing it. Here is my ""pityful"" variation.

BL-HT-Impuls-(B4B+IR)-Dis-(BotD+PS)-C-Jump-4-Geirskogul-Phleb-DFD-True-SSD-Vorp-(Leg+LS)-T4 and rotato.

Is it really that bad? I just don't want to be a hassle to my party and pull my weight XD

PS: facepalms with chairs are allowed, heavier objects are a no-no.

Think I can help you out with your rotation since we're on the same server. I got dervy's rotation down pretty good I think.
01-19-2016, 04:40 AM
Erys

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Precasting BL is OK, but for B4B, the best spot mathematically to put it is after Heavy Thrust, this catches ID through 2nd 4th. You're popping it later which means you're getting another buffed HT instead of ID, minor 10 potency difference, but that's the logic behind it anyways.

Your first 4th, you CT> Jump > 4th. I really try to hold Jump until after the 4th unless it procs Wheeling while I'm already at the rear after CT. The animation delay from jump will most likely cause you to miss the positional bonus on 4th hit.

This is what I wanted to know, what I was missing and what I could potentially gain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeviand

With all that being said, I encourage you to keep trying to master the advanced opener unless your connection speeds a limitation.

Connection is not limitant except for when psn fucks up. I run on 200M bandwith. It's more a visual discomfort, like the colors of the skills in that particular order makes it more recognizable or the animations feel more fitting to say so. I still don't have potions because I'm not raiding, I could fit them before Impulse Drive or after if I change my B4F+IR position.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninjah2r

Think I can help you out with your rotation since we're on the same server. I got dervy's rotation down pretty good I think.

I appreciate the offer but it doesn't differ from me doing it. It's not a "idk wat do" situation but more of it not feeling natural looking or wierd.

Thank you all, I shall take this into consideration when I get to see my first numbers in AS.
01-19-2016, 07:26 AM
Ninjah2r

Yeah I know what you mean. Thats what annoys me playing drg though lmao, need to adjust the rotation for each fight. It's just annoying to play drg atm, can't do sick deepz as mnk for example.
01-19-2016, 08:43 AM
CookieMonsta

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erys

This is what I wanted to know, what I was missing and what I could potentially gain.

Connection is not limitant except for when psn fucks up. I run on 200M bandwith. It's more a visual discomfort, like the colors of the skills in that particular order makes it more recognizable or the animations feel more fitting to say so. I still don't have potions because I'm not raiding, I could fit them before Impulse Drive or after if I change my B4F+IR position.

I appreciate the offer but it doesn't differ from me doing it. It's not a "idk wat do" situation but more of it not feeling natural looking or wierd.

Thank you all, I shall take this into consideration when I get to see my first numbers in AS.

If you are looking for a viable alternative purely due to aesthetics, unfortunately, Dervy's rotation is pretty much mathematically optimal. Anything less is under-performance.
01-20-2016, 01:38 AM
JackFross

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erys

My problem is, dervy's advanced opener is uncomfortable to me (as derp as this sounds)

If it's uncomfortable, it might be worth it to shift buttons around to make things more readily accessible. It took me a good long while to find a position for all the skills where I could pull off the opener with comfort. Especially on controller, it's more than likely that you could fix your discomfort by simply shifting skills around.

If it's merely for aesthetics and animation reasons, you're not going to find a good answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

The animation delay from jump will most likely cause you to miss the positional bonus on 4th hit.

This ^ is kind of incorrect. Jump's animation is ~1.5s, possibly less. You see which positional you need to hit the instant you touch the button for Chaos Thrust or Full Thrust. If you're quick enough to react, you can shift into position, hit Jump, and then hit the 4th hit and both hit the positional and avoid gcd delay. The thing with Jump is the animation lock for movement is longer than the animation lock for skill usage. The second your feet touch the ground again, you can cancel the animation with a skill, but you can't move until that last hop backwards. If you're already in position before you hit jump, you'll be able to cancel into the skill with proper timing and will just be locked in place a little longer after hitting that attack.

As an aside, completely unrelated:

Just decided to actually crunch numbers on the no-potion opener I prefer to use, to see if it actually IS superior to the normal way people drop potions. The normal way is Rotation A, my way is Rotation B. Numbers are here.

Rotation A:
HT>[BL+B4B]>ID>[IR]>Dis>[BotD]>CT>[Leg+PS]>4th>[Jump]>P>[DFD]>TT>[SSD]>VT>[gsk+Life]>FT>4th>HT

Rotation B:
HT>[B4B]>ID>[IR+BL]>Dis>[BotD]>CT>[Leg+PS]>4th>[Jump]>P>[DFD]>TT>[SSD]>VT>[gsk+Life]>FT>4th>HT

If someone can reason out a better no-potion rotation, by all means share it. This is the one I've been using for a while now due to it feeling right, so I ran the numbers on it to see. It kicks the shit out of the one I used to use, due in no small part to the potential for better crits later on in the rotation.

Oh. This guy actually beats out B by 2 potency:

Rotation C:
HT>[BL]>ID>[IR+B4B]>Dis>[BotD]>CT>[Leg+PS]>4th>[Jump]>P>[DFD]>TT>[SSD]>VT>[gsk+Life]>FT>4th>HT

Keep in mind for B and C, you want to hold that first buff for ~1-1.5s into that gcd spin before popping it, so it picks up a 9th gcd.
01-20-2016, 02:09 AM
whiskeybravo

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackFross

This ^ is kind of incorrect.... If you're quick enough to react

Well that's the whole crux. In my experience, when I've burned jump there I usually don't make it to the flank in time for the attack to count as flank. It's not always possible when you consider several of the stack and bait mechanics, as well.
01-20-2016, 03:24 AM
JackFross

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Well that's the whole crux. In my experience, when I've burned jump there I usually don't make it to the flank in time for the attack to count as flank. It's not always possible when you consider several of the stack and bait mechanics, as well.

Yeah, there's a few situations where it's kinda difficult if not impossible to pull it off. A3S comes to mind primarily. I eat a LOT of positional loss in that fight because I want to clear and would rather not kill my healer or tank lmao.
01-20-2016, 04:44 AM
whiskeybravo

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackFross

Oh. This guy actually beats out B by 2 potency:

Rotation C:
HT>[BL]>ID>[IR+B4B]>Dis>[BotD]>CT>[Leg+PS]>4th>[Jump]>P>[DFD]>TT>[SSD]>VT>[gsk+Life]>FT>4th>HT

Are you sure about this o.0

It doesn't agree with Dervy's original analysis from the OP. Maybe you're calculating in some crit% that he didn't originally?

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