Its happened :/ - resorted to new character for Gil.

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Originally Posted by Dranosi

How long would that last untill you're bleed dry from rpr fee? Not long.

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and at that time they ll stop being lazy and farm, I hope

edit: nah just kidding, the lazy ppl here are also include crafter, we are not that cheap to go out and farm for 1 HG mat we lack to make gear, if you get what I mean DoW-only-none-Crafter

Leves are a constant source of 'New Money' ...so the argument that only new players will add gil back into the economy is wrong.
You also get gold rewards (albeit small) from other in-game tasks.

So the game DOES generate gil.

That said: You can't expect to be in a 'rush to cap' AND expect to be making money hand over fist. It's one or the other. Maybe if you can't afford the endgame repairs, that's the game's way of telling you 'hey, you're not quite ready for this'. If you can't figure out how to make 5-10K a day personally in this game (to support your gear repair costs), you are not trying hard enough.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

Leves are a constant source of 'New Money' ...so the argument that only new players will add gil back into the economy is wrong.
You also get gold rewards (albeit small) from other in-game tasks.

So the game DOES generate gil.

That said: You can't expect to be in a 'rush to cap' AND expect to be making money hand over fist. It's one or the other. Maybe if you can't afford the endgame repairs, that's the game's way of telling you 'hey, you're not quite ready for this'. If you can't figure out how to make 5-10K a day personally in this game (to support your gear repair costs), you are not trying hard enough.

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How rich are u? plz do share the details.

[QUOTE=Dranosi;1229558]text[/URL]

I am not go after you , but honestly your character have only 1 GLD lvl 50 and CNJ lvl 15, and you dont have at least a gathering to make money from other ppl or neither you fully use battle content to support yourself
@#162

crafter guildlvl give more than battler guildlvl, the different is 10k+/day

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Originally Posted by joshdavis271

I cannot make gil with my crafting yet being as I'm low level, so I guess I need to have that capped first?

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you need DoL first, it is the good source for earn money

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Originally Posted by Dranosi

text

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I know nothing about enconomy, what I do care about is how much money I have, how much money I earn from other ppl and how much money I generate by do stuff the game give, so back to the topic, I DO NOT understand why you dont have money or a few stacks of Dark Matters Grade 5 to repair your own gear

I cannot make gil with my crafting yet being as I'm low level, so I guess I need to have that capped first?

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

read this and maybe it ll guide you Zero-evidence of deflation in the game economy

@#162

crafter guildlvl give more than battler guildlvl, the different is 10k+/day

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Can i ask u on how much u know about economy? How does 1 hording the gil, use it to rpr, or buy a house themself could possibly benefit the economy? Cause from the look of things, u crafter dont need to spendmuch to buy. So wht left is only ur rpr fee, and other NPC luxury u buy. Unless u guys who have all the money exchanging it back and forw between players, other wise, THIS ECONOMY IS FKED.

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Originally Posted by Inzoum

As long as Gil transfers to ME, I'm richer in the end, and honestly, that's all that matters, YOU fail at economics

Economics is SPECIFICALLY about money moving around. Money and goods sitting still is NOT healthy for an economy

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This seems like a pretty shortsighted viewpoint to me. When you pay an NPC for repairs he doesn't pay his employees or spend the gil to supply or expand his operations. When 5% of your AH sale is taxed, the Sultana isn't hiring workers to build a road or a park. This money is not moving, it's vanishing - eliminated from circulation.

The point of these threads this past week is simply that more money is leaving the economy than coming into it. If this holds then people will stop transferring their gil to you, prices will drop, and repair costs will stay the same exacerbating the issue.

I don't know about you but I'd like to still have people transferring their gil to me in a month and beyond.

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Originally Posted by Aurongroove

this is nonsense, there are tonnes of ways to make money in this game.

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Then list some that don't involve crafting, because apart from HQing leves, crafting doesn't bring new money into the game. If battle leves, fates, and dungeons were enough to cover the cost of repairs at 50 we obviously wouldn't be seeing all of these threads about it. In order to have a healthy economy battle classes need to be able to bring enough new money into the game to sustain themselves, and then some, so they actually have gil to throw towards crafters and gatherers.

Guys, a lot of you are being unnecessarily mean.

I'm able to work the economy to my advantage and actually have a steadily increasing money reserve. If you're out of money and you're complaining the game sinks too much gil out of everyone's pockets, maybe you're just doing it wrong.

It's a jungle out there and you definitely CAN be at the top of the food chain, but you'll have to fight for your place. Once you're there, you don't actually have any money issues.

Stop looking for scapegoats. Man up and WORK on getting rich.

EDIT:
v1 used to throw tons of gil at us with no effort, and prices would inflate like crazy. Be happy you're playing in a game where you COULD diligently NPC-sell 300x 1gil items you gathered in the nude with a weathered tool to buy a 300gil piece of equipment, the prices currently make this possible. If you're smart, though, you'll sell these for 1gil to PLAYERS on the Market Board, where they'll stay in the economy, circulate and help people create better goods at lower costs and effort.

Also: to people complaining "I used to be able to make money from ___ but undercutters ruin it!", suck it, it's a simple rule of demand and offer. You'll have to do some research on the market board to find something ELSE that sells regularly (in demand) and that is currently understocked (low offer), then raise the price on that, you'll end up richer, I GUARANTEE. At the expense of someone who spends inconsiderately, sure, but that's how all markets work. You can also leverage the laziness factor and sell other players overpriced items they need but can't be bothered to make: for example all those items you need to turn in for crafting quest. You're TECHNICALLY able to make these items yourself when the quest comes up, but a lot of people just go and buy stuff other players have made because it's just so much easier. Leverage that and TAKE THEIR MONEY. That's how it works.

this is nonsense, there are tonnes of ways to make money in this game.

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Originally Posted by FrogDog

The point of these threads this past week is simply that more money is leaving the economy than coming into it.

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Again, this might be true for your personal economy, but if you used even half of the tools available to you, you would see, you are in fact, gaining money, which was generated by the game (and not passed between players). Also, you would notice that this is not a finite stream of gil, but replenishable (generated by the game)

Also, the game has more than one currency at play. Gil is really only meant for gear repairs, transportation, NPC purchases and player to player sales. Tomes/Company Seals etc. are your main 'gear purchasing' power.
Whining about the Markets is also pointless, anything on them you could get for free with the right connections or by putting in the proper time.

The game has been out for 2 weeks...people are rushing to 'be first' and that costs something. If you can't afford it, slow down, grind that mountain of leves you should have...or take a break and level a DOL/DOH...heck take a break and go farm some mobs for drops. (this would be player economy not necessarily game generated gil...although the raw mats are also worth something in game (NPCable)and infinite.

Complaining that the game doesn't generate enough money is not the right way to go about it. The game DOES generate enough. The game will be patched,expansions will be added etc...this also =new gil. SE can adjust gil rewards on FATES/leves/new content at any time. But even if the game rained down gil...it just creates other problems. (see 1.0 economies for details). So again, the problem isn't how much gil is coming in vs. out, it's the attitude of the players who wish to have whatever gil they want (or the items it can give them) without the effort involved.

And to Dran: How much gil I have doesn't matter...what matters is I make more than I spend every day.

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Originally Posted by FrogDog

Then list some that don't involve crafting,

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guildlvl (battle)/FATE/guildhest/chest drop from dungeon

and FATE bring you seals + gil, with Seals you can get the First captain gear from GC and eventually dark matter grade 5 for repair, I start ACN from lvl 1 to 46 and I am here with 5 stacks of Dark matter grade 5 for repair and I am not farm fate but only do those I cross path and GC hunting log, it doesnt need to be a genius to do that and quit complain about the silly 5%, the 5% will not kill the enconomy in the game there is no way it will with the gil regenerate rate

I wonder how the goldsellers are able to make such amounts of money....?

Dranosi , I am just saying they created FF XIV like a real life. You don't have everything for free , you understand?

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Or Solution B

Let us buy alagan pieces with GC Seals

50 seals = 1 bronze piece
250 seals = 1 silver piece
1250 seals = 1 gold piece

So If I fate grind all night and net 20,000 GC seals that would be 16 gold pieces worth 40,000 Gil and I'd probably repair twice for around 5k total at a net profit of 35,000 gil.

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I would be pretty happy to purchase alagan pieces with GC seals, liked your post.

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Originally Posted by Jholonox

Dranosi , I am just saying they created FF XIV like a real life. You don't have everything for free , you understand?

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Umm, as an argument, we did pay for the game, and will have to continue paying to play. So, isn't that kind of, uhm, not free anymore? :x

i mean i'm

just

yeah
-skitters away

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Originally Posted by Talec

I wonder how the goldsellers are able to make such amounts of money....?

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Hacking Legacy accounts with millions, rolling alts on those accounts and doing quests with bots, multiboxing bots at the same time. Y'know, the usual methods.

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Originally Posted by Doctor-

After spamming a lot of endgame raid dungeon for farming + Titan hard mode relic my gil supply has dwindled to almost nothing and with no good source of income >.< - (5k repair bills btw) I decided to make alts to sustain me some fat checks until this issue is fixed.... a lot of my friends are also down to their last 75k on new server the main problem will soon start on new servers by the end of this week I believe.

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So let me just see if I got thiss clear... you have spammed dungeons.....ran out of gil due to repair costs......not attempted to make gil through any other means on your main character ....made a alt to generate funds for repairs........and to bump it all you think the game needs fixing all because cause you don't want to do anything that involves effort outside of a dungeon. BUT have yet to realise that making a new char is not actually a fast and effective way of making cash

I am sorry but this is just a "FAIL" of the highest order.

We need this issue to be fixed.

The current system is a BAD one and its broken. Servers are losing money (stop saying "Use the AH" you are only showing your ignorance, AH is a gil loss to the server).

Repair bill are too big AND there are too little (and uneffective) ways to earn gil.

Hasn't Yoshi said that the next patch will include daily quests? Why don't we wait and see what those entail before going all "doomsday"? Perhaps gil is a reward! *gasp*

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Originally Posted by ak47

So let me just see if I got thiss clear... you have spammed dungeons.....ran out of gil due to repair costs......not attempted to make gil through any other means on your main character ....made a alt to generate funds for repairs........and to bump it all you think the game needs fixing all because cause you don't want to do anything that involves effort outside of a dungeon. BUT have yet to realise that making a new char is not actually a fast and effective way of making cash

I am sorry but this is just a "FAIL" of the highest order.

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Running dungeons is as much 'effort' as crafting, so why shouldn't both be sustainable, why can't players choose from all the options the game offers and do the ones they enjoy.

Boggles my mind why some people think it's good game design to force people to do things they don't enjoy. I at least play game for fun and recreation.

Running Dungeons takes absolutely NO EFFORT in comparison to crafting, which takes money to do, and alot more time invested. It's meant to be the way you earn money in this game. That, and rare drops.

Simply expecting to get awesome loot, great XP, and tons of gil at the end of a dungeon is absurd.

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Originally Posted by ak47

stuff

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Okay, there you go. Someone please answer this. Why is dungeon-running seen so effortless when compared to crafting/gathering? I don't get it. You don't get into a dungeon and faceroll your way to victory. It takes work just like gathering or crafting takes work. Just like you know where to get mat X or how to perfectly craft item Y after a certain number of tries, dungeon-runners know how to run dungeons after a while as well. I'm not saying it's rocket science, but there is just the overwhelming air filled with this semi-hidden sentiment that dungeon-running takes no work whatsoever and people just want to make a quick buck and I can't for the life of me figure out why people see it this way. The problem is and has always been that the gains accrued from running a dungeon versus the loses incurred are skewed heavily in favor of the latter. People just enough to get by without being forced into an activity they want no part in.

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Originally Posted by Mkilbride

Running Dungeons takes absolutely NO EFFORT in comparison to crafting, which takes money to do, and alot more time invested. It's meant to be the way you earn money in this game. That, and rare drops.

Simply expecting to get awesome loot, great XP, and tons of gil at the end of a dungeon is absurd.

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So repairs don't count as money spent for dungeon-runners or something? And no one wants a ton of gil. People want just enough to cover the cost of repairs. That's it. That's all it's ever been about. They don't care about getting rich.

Just think, in FFXI you got barely any Gil from quests, you had to craft to make income or do HNM events with a LS that had bidding allowed on money items you could sell through LS if not any of that you were farming for it. Crafting in this game is a godsend compared to 11 and the fact you can level up more then one craft is just broken in comparison. I know many people aren't from 11 and are used to easy easy easy play style but they want you to face challenges because it keeps you busy and it keeps the economy stable, sure maybe now it isn't but once everyone starts working hard for Gil it will become stable in due time.

Edit: 50 is definatly not endgame, so expect even more costly repairs ect for higher level gear, expect more tiers of AF because its all coming, I'm 90% sure of it, probably 75-99 lv cap in the future. Of course this is my own speculation judging from 11, when that was first released it was lv50 cap.

dungeons give you free gear. wear that gear instead of your A-list gear. spirit bond it. and then profit. Even Andapor keep doesn't require you to use your absolute best gear at all times. get a cobalt set if you're a tank. wear it through the trash pulls or sac pulls and then switch to your A-list for the bosses. I've done this a number of times, and it allows you to farm materia to gear for coil and get materia for your relic.

Some people have no foresight at all....as a battle class i get everything for free. the only thing I have to spend money on is repairs. which can be minimized by spreading the damage out of your trash gear you can convert...

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Originally Posted by Tezeret

Point is...the "Costs" add up to way more then the playerbase can create. server loses more money then it makes. thats a failed economy.

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It sound weird.. Logically, if the server is always losing more money than its generate, then wouldn't everybody in new server should have 0 gil?
Because you know, new and flesh server start with 0 gil.. if you guys are having any gil at all, then it mean server gil has increase in total. If you feel that you are so poor, then someone else in your server may be rich and balance this out?

Anyway server start at 0 gil, when it begin all new. so if server has any gil at all, then it mean it has more than what it beginning does, and unless everybody have 0 gil, then it generate more than lose.

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Originally Posted by Blazn

No its your fault for using half of what the game has in it.

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This is a game, not a job. Why should people pay 15 bucks a month and be forced to do things they don't enjoy? What other successful mmo does this? oh that's right, none, because nobody would stick around.

.uhh i got leather working to 50 in a hell of a lot less effort than i got my bard to 50. Have you even done the hard mode fights? seeing as you arent 50 how the hell can you say they take no effort. Running AK 50+ times at at least 20 minutes each to get the gear to progress is some how no effort? Not to mention you have to rely on 3-7 other people who can screw crap up. What effort does crafting take besides hitting synth and a set pattern of skills for a few seconds until your item is done

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Originally Posted by Sadique

This is a game, not a job. Why should people pay 15 bucks a month and be forced to do things they don't enjoy? What other successful mmo does this? oh that's right, none, because nobody would stick around.

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I don't like combat, so I should be able to level Arcanist some other way.

Combat is the whole point of the Disciples of War and Magic?

That's bad game design.

LOL! "YOU GOTTA HALP TEH POOR PEOPLE!"

what i find funny is all these people complain about everything, what i love is how a person could craft an item that can be resold to a vendor for 14 gil then put on market for 14 gil minus the tax, and you guys said this game was to easy lololololololol

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Originally Posted by Landiien

I don't like combat, so I should be able to level Arcanist some other way.

Combat is the whole point of the Disciples of War and Magic?

That's bad game design.

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so because you dont like combat, you should be able to level a combat class a different way? Im not sure how that relates to wanting to be able to support your class without being forced into leveling another class. A person shouldnt be forced to level a DoL/DoH so that they can enjoy their DoW/DoM.

To people sayng "lvl up crafts to save money" let's just take arcanist as an example.

You would need:

Alchemy to repair the book.
Weaver for some armor pieces.
Leatherworker for other armor pieces.
Goldsmith for Jewelry.

That would save you around 400g for repairs, I wonder how many years it would take to make back the money spent on those crafts.

I have 570k. Got it all from crafting. I never go below 560k per day, no matter how many dungeons I do.

You're not doing anything to keep your gil going.

To those who say repairing your own gear is too expensive, you need to pick up a gathering skill and actually learn how the game works. This isn't world of warcraft, this isn't bad game design. Honestly if you refuse to play the game the way it's meant to be played, I don't see how you're complaining about anything.

Each combat class has other classes it can pool abilities from, same goes for crafters in terms of materials. Unlike most MMOs, crafting/gathering is meant to be a key component to your character. I don't see how you want to play a character that can only do 1/8 of what it's supposed to do.

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Originally Posted by Ashgarth

To people sayng "lvl up crafts to save money" let's just take arcanist as an example.

You would need:

Alchemy to repair the book.
Weaver for some armor pieces.
Leatherworker for other armor pieces.
Goldsmith for Jewelry.

That would save you around 400g for repairs, I wonder how many years it would take to make back the money spent on those crafts.

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and mining/botany oh and also carpentry, because if you dont want to dump a ton of gil into the market, you actually need to level almost all of the crafts up. So this is obviously the solution! level all of the crafting classes and gathering classes to support your single combat class.

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Originally Posted by Lucroarna

I have 570k. Got it all from crafting. I never go below 560k per day, no matter how many dungeons I do.

You're not doing anything to keep your gil going.

To those who say repairing your own gear is too expensive, you need to pick up a gathering skill and actually learn how the game works. This isn't world of warcraft, this isn't bad game design. Honestly if you refuse to play the game the way it's meant to be played, I don't see how you're complaining about anything.

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Can you please direct me to the instructions from the developers that explains how this game is meant to be played? And you got 570k from crafting, or from selling things on the market? becuase in that case you got it from other players. And you do know that my Bards relic gear requires a weaver, a goldsmith, and a leather worker to repair right?

Would you be okay if you were told you have to level up a tank and a healer so that you can play your DPS? or you cant do any crafting and gathering unless you also level up multiple combat classes? No, it is only people who like the combat aspect of the game who are being told they must do crafting to continue enjoying the game, but not the other way around.

Sad, before world of warcraft and dailies, this is how all MMOs worked. You are either unable to comprehend simple logic, or unwilling to play the game correctly.

Your complaints are nullified by the fact that I am a player too, and because I'm spending time crafting, I have 0 issues with gil. This makes your problem your fault, because we're playing the same game, and 1 other person doesn't have the same problem you direct towards the game.

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Originally Posted by Lucroarna

Sad, before world of warcraft and dailies, this is how all MMOs worked. You are either unable to comprehend simple logic, or unwilling to play the game correctly.

Your complaints are nullified by the fact that I am a player too, and because I'm spending time crafting, I have 0 issues with gil. This makes your problem your fault, because we're playing the same game, and 1 other person doesn't have the same problem you direct towards the game.

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You can't help those who don't want to help themselves. In wow back in the day do you think people farmed the epl elites cause it was fun? no they were doing it for money to cover their repair/crafting costs people complained and now look at wow i can make 2-3k gold in a hour half assing dailies.

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Originally Posted by Ispen

You can't help those who don't want to help themselves. In wow back in the day do you think people farmed the epl elites cause it was fun? no they were doing it for money to cover their repair/crafting costs people complained and now look at wow i can make 2-3k gold in a hour half assing dailies.

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Quoted for truth, I was always poor in Vanilla too.

These kids don't know nothin'.

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Originally Posted by Lucroarna

Sad, before world of warcraft and dailies, this is how all MMOs worked. You are either unable to comprehend simple logic, or unwilling to play the game correctly.

Your complaints are nullified by the fact that I am a player too, and because I'm spending time crafting, I have 0 issues with gil. This makes your problem your fault, because we're playing the same game, and 1 other person doesn't have the same problem you direct towards the game.

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I know very well how games we over a decade ago, I also know that a lot of people who only have a few hours to play each day dont want to spend that time walking in a small circle hitting 4 of the exact same rocks over and over again. Do you not think there is a reason why no games are like UO and EQ1 anymore? I have my mining at almost 40, my leather working at 50, i know how to support myself. I also know that raising both of those 2 things was boring as hell compared to running dungeons. This is a video game, not a second job. The only reason i leveled those things is because its relaxing to do while i wait for my friends to get online.
People aren't asking for ways to make hundreds of thousands of gil which they wouldn't even have anything to spend it on really besides repair and teleportation as crafted items are rather limited in use, they are asking for a decent way that is actually enjoyable to be able to continue playing the game as they want.