Online Bullying - A Dev request for a response and discussion

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Originally Posted by KimimiAvesta

Tell someone at your work/college/social group/family to "Go cut your fucking throat" over a game and see if any of them shrug it off as "Oh, you're just being a jerk and throwing out insults like people do all the time.".

The problem here is with the person doling out the insults, not the person on the other end, offended or not.

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I don't act like that in game or in person. I also don't think most of the people who act like dicks online would do it in person. Hence why I said it's the internet. We all know a good portion of people act differently when behind a screen.
Maybe I am just jaded to it as I've played games for years and I am able to ignore the unpleasant individuals. Sure, they shouldn't act like a d-bag, but they're going to nonetheless. That's what the report function is for. I was more disagreeing with the OP calling it bullying.

Simple solution to a big problem: SE mails us plane tickets and buss fare to the offenders house.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsXKAtpLm4I

It's funny because I'm assuming that the reason there are so many pricks in the duty finder is because they can't form their own groups, most likely due to their shitty attitude.

well you don't get around the internet much if you don't see this kinda of bs very often.. its every where. While yes they are mostly children There are some adults that act like this too. I really have to ask where the kids parents are and how come there not doing there parental responsibility's and taking care of there children, teaching them right from wrong. As this is wrong.

This kind of behavior is not acceptable IRL nor is it imo acceptable online. If my kid talked to someone like this online i would bare ass whip him.

Not to mention that even talking like that to someone can get you jail time, easily..

the problem is that there not really learning and that most people don't want to put up with it. where here to enjoy our self's not to parent others children. There really needs to be some consequences for this kind of behavior.

Here is my stance on Cyber Bullying (which is what it is officially called). People who tend to be emotionally, mentally and verbally abusive can cause psychological effects on some people who cannot deal with these types of abuse. I have a few friends who have mental disabilities which make them very sensitive to what others say and hurts them a lot easier than some people. I'm not saying that people with these same mental disabilities are the same but it's just an example. Most of the time, people who hurt others are currently being hurt themselves. Either that or they are just being rude to be rude. I do feel that hurting the person who hurt you is just sinking as low. Some people lash out in anger, some cry and others become withdrawn. Most are defenses against society and they become anti-social. I tend to try and be neutral for most cases but when someone begins to attack race, gender and other personal things; then it becomes a real issue.

If you are asking to stomp on the negative individuals, then I'm not in agreement with that since I'm one of those. We exist to balance out the positive people and bring them down to reality which is a good thing, so if you ban us then in-order to be equal. You'll need to punish the positive folk as well. Now I'm fine with banning people who harass others without providing backup, that shouldn't be allowed. However if they do provide reasons to why they are saying these things in like an argument then what you have is just a negative person, not a bully. Big difference here and easily confused for some. This is typically constructive criticism, not just criticizing without benefit.

You need balance in the community; both positive and negative people to have a healthy community. You don't need the bad apples who harass and torment others, this is mainly targeting and focusing on the individuals. Those need to be punished, and by the sounds of it. That's what's in the duty finder as to which I have not seen yet. If I can provide reasons to why I'm thinking negatively of you or trying to help you by labeling it negatively, then those people should be free of punishment. This is why I'm not going near the word bully, it's not accurate enough to describe what's happening.

@FritoBandito You took the post too literally and came up with a silly comparison, it's fine though. The point was you need balance, shifting the focus to punish 1/2(or 1/3 if you wanna go that way) of the types is not fair was the point you may of missed. I tend to see things in black and white and force the grey into one of the two categories, mostly because it's challenging. Off-topic though.

@Terius I did read the OP. If you didn't understand my post, please refer to my opening statement. It's in the shape of a question. "If you are asking to stomp on the negative individuals" that means I wasn't following. Mostly because they are using the word bully, bully can mean a variety of things which I took as negatives. However if you read my post correctly, you should have realized what I mean. Am I saying what's present in the picture is okay? No, that's what I considered not okay. So not sure why you took it that way, care to explain how? I'm usually good with wording, but maybe not today.

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Originally Posted by JerryBoyle

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It's totally fine to point out a person's poor performance and explain how they can do better, but there's a right way and a wrong way. The wrong way was clearly displayed in OP's image. The right way has been explained in several posts on this forum already.

Also, you talk about the balance of positive and negative people like they're protons and electrons. This is completely different. How many shrinks are out there for positive people to go visit because they need to be more negative in life, and take meds to get them down in the dumps when they're too happy about something?

I wish I could blacklist every poster ITT that condones this disgusting behavior, going so far as to blame the poor bastard on the receiving end for not being "thick-skinned" enough. You make me sick.

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Originally Posted by JerryBoyle

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Looks like someone did not read the OP. This thread isn't about telling someone their not perfect when they need to hear it, its about telling people things that have no place being said. There is no reason for it. What's in the OP's pic is not 'balancing' out in any way/

We seem to have a number of troll apologists in the thread, who are under the false impression that the community should be content to grin and bear it, or silently resign that name-calling and harassment is just an unavoidable side effect of being on the internet. Is it wishful thinking, perhaps? In any case, something about getting this topic out in the open, and creating buzz around increased countermeasures and reporting to mods, is clearly making them uncomfortable.

"Suck it up," "grow a pair," and "you will never stop this," are quite obvious signs of desperation and insecurity. They're trying to psych themselves up, by fooling players into thinking there's something wrong with them if they are offended by straight-up insults and harassment. It's a pathetic attempt to prolong their inevitable suspension/ban.

I can't tell the rest of you what to do, but failing to report is practically doing these trolls a favour. Don't let them swindle you into thinking "it will never go away." If you report them, they will go away.

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Originally Posted by JerryBoyle

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Your concept of balancing out the good with the bad makes absolutely no sense.

Sorry, but OP's screenshot clearly does not illustrate this concept. I see no form of "balance" in this form of negative behaviour in this sense. It also does not depict constructive criticism either.

What is shown is an immature adult being simply vulgar and hateful and simply asking for the ban hammer - which I hope he gets soon. I don't think anyone likes being treated that way either. The vulgar player in the screenshot is obviously one of your typical "i am invincible and strong over the internet because I am anonymous" losers.

The excuse "Children are on this game" to justify justice against these people is one I cannot agree with. If your going to let your child on the internet and play online games then understand all that goes with that. Its the internet, people will act like that. Im not condoning his toxic behavior but its part of the internet.

A blacklist, block, or report function would be nice though.

Haha these cyber bullies are a joke. We all know these kids can't do anything in real life, unless they got their boyfriends to back them up. It might be hard to ignore these kind of people, but you should try to. As for me, I just lol @them.

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Originally Posted by JerryBoyle

@FritoBandito You took the post too literally and came up with a silly comparison, it's fine though. The point was you need balance, shifting the focus to punish 1/2(or 1/3 if you wanna go that way) of the types is not fair was the point you may of missed.

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I didn't miss the point at all. I simply didn't comment on it because of how silly it sounds but since you seem to want attention drawn to it, I'll bite.

It's not about punishing people JUST for being negative. It's about punishing people for particular offenses. In the case of the image posted by the OP, it could be harassment, deliberate provocation/goading, foul language, use of racial slurs, griefing, etc.

Supposedly they will come up with a way to report players through the chat log. I would have simply left the instance at the first sign of hostility, and reported through whatever means available, then move on.

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Originally Posted by FritoBandito

I didn't miss the point at all. I simply didn't comment on it because of how silly it sounds but since you seem to want attention drawn to it, I'll bite.

It's not about punishing people JUST for being negative. It's about punishing people for particular offenses. In the case of the image posted by the OP, it could be harassment, deliberate provocation/goading, foul language, use of racial slurs, griefing, etc.

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As I said in that post, I'm for this and I even started with a question, suggesting if that's not what the OP means by bully. You clearly did not read my post fully which is why I questioned you're understanding.

Bullying is a loose term encompassing a lot of things, hence my confusion. I took it as negative people after showcasing a picture with negative people in it hence my post talking about it. If you wanted an accurate reply, have an accurate OP by detailing what is meant, not pussyfooting around what you mean.

Wow! There's a lot of pathetic people in this thread. It's one thing to say a player isn't very good, but it's another to start making personal insults and to everyone saying you need to have "thick skin" or "suck it up" must have absolutely no self respect which is really sad.

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Originally Posted by JerryBoyle

You clearly did not read my post fully

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Actually didn't read that particular post at all. You posted it before I finished typing the one you just quoted.

Anyhoo...

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Originally Posted by FritoBandito

Actually didn't read that particular post at all. You posted it before I finished typing the one you just quoted.

Anyhoo...

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That's fine, I thought I would have my posts restricted. They must have gotten rid of that 2 post a day thing? Sorry for the confusion:3

Aha, I ran into it lol

@Gucci_Charms I own my statements when I say them, so to say my words are retarded equals you calling me retarded. I didn't take offense though, but my statement of you still applies. If you can't understand something, it may not be the words at fault. Hopefully I cleared it up for you though from my other posts/edits. I thought it was obvious the picture wasn't being talked about.

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Originally Posted by JerryBoyle

@Gucci_Charms You can't call me retarded for your failure to understand words.

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I never called you retarded. I agreed with Amenian that your one statement is retarded.

And LOL @ you trying to call me out for not understanding your words. Maybe you should re-read my comment about your one statement. It clearly does not say you are a retard. :)

You can't stop people from being assholes online. This is the internet. If you get upset you can get offline or ignore them

There's nothing too bad about whst I read. Simply blacklist and your done.

I agree and sign this petition if it is one. Im a 40 yr old with 2 kids (11 and 9) that play games as well and I would hate to see one of them be harassed or exposed to something like this. This is inexcusable no matter how terrible people play. I think its that persons responsibility to suck it up play through it and not be a jerk about it. And if it means a wipe and not clearing the dungeon or whatever, so be it. Its a game and there will be winners and losers.

Also im betting that this is no kid. This is an adult which is acting like a kid. Im sure of it 100%. And dammed straight we should be doing something about this. Its each and everyones duty as a human being to call thee people out, report them, whatever, so they are the ones that are shunned by the community, not the ones on the receiving end of this barrage of obscenities.

Here is a saying from my childhood(I'm sure some have heard it before)^_^

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me!!!" <--- the cure for all these ills. Most ppl make jibes at others for personal satisfaction or to hide there own inadequacy.. The answer is, don't let it get to you. Bullies are everywhere in RL and on here... Nothing to do but deal with em sadly as RL has no magic "Report this dick" button, lol. So next time someones giving you a hard time in an instance just think back to my post and throw up a middle finger to the screen and say outloud "Screw you turd, cause I don't care!" Then have yourself a nice laugh because said turd has no knowledge of how infinitely and wonderfully superior you are to them.

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Originally Posted by Danathos

Here is a saying from my childhood(I'm sure some have heard it before)^_^

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me!!!" <--- the cure for all these ills. Most ppl make jibes at others for personal satisfaction or to hide there own inadequacy.. The answer is, don't let it get to you. Bullies are everywhere in RL and on here... Nothing to do but deal with em sadly as RL has no magic "Report this dick" button, lol. So next time someones giving you a hard time in an instance just think back to my post and throw up a middle finger to the screen and say outloud "Screw you turd, cause I don't care!"

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Yeah, some people can shrug things like this off, but some cant.

Dam how did I miss this group?! I would have loved to be there just to troll him.

"Wut? I missed it? No way! I'll get the next one better ..." "Derp missed that one too my bad" "Lawl maybe you should just be good enough for both of us and get them yourself" and finally at the end when hes really pissed and raging "Nah dude u sit back here on this pull and lemme show u how to tank and interrupt, I just missed em on purpose cuz your an asshat. Get better and rely on yourself to tank and interrupt"

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Originally Posted by mkopec1

I agree and sign this petition if it is one. Im a 40 yr old with 2 kids (11 and 9) that play games as well and I would hate to see one of them be harassed or exposed to something like this. This is inexcusable no matter how terrible people play. I think its that persons responsibility to suck it up play through it and not be a jerk about it. And if it means a wipe and not clearing the dungeon or whatever, so be it. Its a game and there will be winners and losers.

Also im betting that this is no kid. This is an adult which is acting like a kid. Im sure of it 100%. And dammed straight we should be doing something about this. Its each and everyones duty as a human being to call thee people out, report them, whatever, so they are the ones that are shunned by the community, not the ones on the receiving end of this barrage of obscenities.

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More then likely you are correct. most of the time I see this it's an adult that has no life and has nothing better to do but try to make themselves feel better by taking out their misery on other people via the internet. You can report them and hope something happens but more times then not nothing will. Sad to say this is the state of our world now a days

Reading that screenshot: that seems like a case of cyberbullying, which can actually be charged as a criminal offense depending on where you live. It should be reported, and SE should start enforcing this kind of behavior as it is unacceptable. And to all the "it's just words, deal with it" people, cyberbullying has lasting psychological effects on victims, including suicide. Not everyone can just shrug off words.

It simply baffles me that people do this. Whether it's real life, in a game, or on the internet, THIS IS NEVER OK. If you wouldn't do/say this in real life, what makes you possibly think it's ok in games or on the internet? It's still a real person on the receiving end of your hateful, nasty words. Anyone who says "I'm not like that in real life" is a liar. The words you say in a game is still you talking, it's still you typing it out in real life, which makes you an asshole and a bully. The person in this example even said it was his first time. Everyone has a first time at everything. Instead of taking the opportunity to mentor and guide, the person chose to become a horrible human being. He/she chose to put getting a primal win over their own conscience of how to treat other people and tarnishing their own moral character in the process. Can you imagine this in real life? Say a kid missed a bucket or dropped the ball in a 4 on 4 pick up basketball game. "Your ONE job was to catch the ball you f***ing *** **** ***!&@$*@&#" Is that ok? Of course not.

For anyone who says "just grow up and deal with it" or "just move on and ignore them"
I know your trying to avoid drama and trying to be realistic that assholes exist and not much can be done about them. But if you saw someone get verbally torn apart in front of you in real life, would you be ok with that? If you're able to take the heat and move on unscathed, great! But there are kids playing as well - not everyone is a "mature adult," not everyone is an expert, and not everyone is as thick skinned as you. People become more prone to lashing out their anger online because of anonymity, but it can help the "bystanders" have the courage to speak up against these things as well.

At ALL times, your actions and interactions, whether it's in a game or real life, is a reflection of who you are. Act accordingly.

I don't condone the language I saw there, but being an adult seems to be the best course of action. Classifying them as bullies is a bit much considering I can literally choose how long I want to put up with immature nonsense like that. Kick them from the party, or leave yourself and requeue. Asking the devs to go over stuff like this is a waste of time and resources.

Why block out their names, publicly shame them, we can look them up on lodestone and go out of our way to avoid them.

The duty finder seems to be full of a**holes. We had a tank that would run off when a mob was at a quarter health and pull more mobs. Then yell at the healer because they weren't healing him (well if your out of range its hard). We get to the last boss, wipe once then beat him. He says "Your welcome" then "I cry for the tank that has to tank for you next" and leaves. We wrote him off as a jerk.

Honestly when people act like that, just laugh and tell them how delicious their tears are. Sure they will rage harder, but it just increases the comedic value of it all. I don't like what they do, I don't agree with it and a kick/report option would be welcome...But the fact of the matter is that it won't make it stop, I've been playing online games for many years and every single game has this issue.

That said all of my DF experiences thus far have been really good in terms of personality and for that I am thankful, though I'm sure my asshole group is just a click away.

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Originally Posted by Allido

Honestly when people act like that, just laugh and tell them how delicious their tears are. Sure they will rage harder, but it just increases the comedic value of it all. I don't like what they do, I don't agree with it and a kick/report option would be welcome...But the fact of the matter is that it won't make it stop, I've been playing online games for many years and every single game has this issue.

That said all of my DF experiences thus far have been really good in terms of personality and for that I am thankful, though I'm sure my asshole group is just a click away.

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Yes. This.

He was being bully. But there are different extreme's to being a bully. If the guy in the picture had just kept saying "LOL dude you suck" that really wouldn't be against any rules and you could either blacklist him or leave the DF and just move on with your life.

The problem was when he started cursing and using the N-word. Which, is not only uncalled for, but against Square Enix's rules. We can scream 1st amendment rights all we want but A. This isn't an American company, and B. 1st Amendment rights are suspended when it's a private corporation. They have a legal right to ban you for any thing you said. Really. They could ban that guy for saying "LOL dude you suck" and they have every legal standing on their side.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...q-29132-5.html

Telling someone to kill themselves isn't actually protected speech either:
http://elsterlaw.com/free-speech-first-amendment/

Hey guys I encourage you to all to go to system>Support Desk>Contact Us>Report Harassment. Last thing we want is this turning into LoL type of community, best thing we could do is make noise about it and show that we have zero tolerance against immature people who don't show respect. And remember you can always take a screen shot and go to http://support.na.square-enix.com/co...382&la=1&fty=2 and report harassment there too if you prefer that way. Don't let people treat you like dirt guys. Lets create a healthy community, and make it happen.

The pathetic people who get off on this kind of chat need to be banned. End of story. There is no excuse to talk to other players like this.

Edit: I hate league of legends because I don't do MOBA's but from what I understand they police this trash. Banning someones level 50 or multiple level 50's is a great lesson to keep your mouth shut if you have nothing nice to say.

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Originally Posted by kurokawa

Bullies

Duty finder is increasingly becoming a playhouse for these folk, attacking any player, new or old, not just for their performance or ability, but going as low as attacking race, gender, sexuality and god knows what else. They are not just 'trolls'.

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Get over it. Black list them if you don't like it.

Unfortunately I've been that really bad player before. It seems like it always takes me a while to get my barrings straight in a new dungeon because I don't want to rush ahead. Hell, I never even knew how to mark mobs before lvl 45. That was when someone politely taught me how. Most of my duty finder parties have been good and patient, but remember that instead of calling someone a 'noob' or worse, you could try teaching. I certainly appreciated it.

In any case, SE's policies are pretty clear regarding this game. If you're a douche, you're liable to get reported and potentially banned. And as a community, if we see it going on, we should step in and let them know it's not welcome. We reap what we sow. And remember that the freedom of speech is not the 'freedom to speak without consequence'.

People these days really are lacking in self-esteem. If you let a few harsh words hurt you, maybe you should stop living under a rock.

Fact is you have people that care NOTHING for others that play this game and that goes BOTH ways.

You have people that verbally troll, you have people that totally lack the ability to preform simple mechanics regardless of number of tries and you have those that que for level 50 instances wearing level 35 gear.

So you picking the verbal abusers out of the crowd does little to nothing. If you watch someone wipe to the same mechanics 10x, you should be telling him he is failing.

If you are so weak spirited that you just ignore it and continue to wipe, maybe it is you who is the odd duck.

Everyone needs to watch Bambi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wui-PNqJrxs