Scholar... SAY WHUT?

Thought I'd just leave this here -

Rein posted a rough translation of the live letter test broadcast -

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post997418

They are talking about Scholar.. and PR was upset at them for leaking it.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Why would there be a new guild? Aren't you arguing that this is a job? I thought this was the "job branching confirmed!" thing because of the book. Wouldn't it still just have the ACN guild?

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Well, some people have said that, yes. I'm not exactly in that camp. IF we are getting Scholar as a new job, then it's definitely a strong possibility that it's ACN's second job (and thus from the same guild), but I was no more fazed to see "SCH" and SMN both wielding books than I was to see BLM and WHM both wield staves. I neither like the idea that we'll be getting two jobs from one class nor find it particularly likely, for reasons I will be glad to discuss at greater lengths... in a couple weeks. So I'm still optimistically hoping we'll see SCH as a new job with a new class (tactician?) and its own guild.. though even I can admit the amount of cover-up that would be required to keep something of that extent quiet would be... well, rough.

Regardless, I'm sort of mirroring your thought process over the median here. I'm also not above admitting I'm wrong, and also not 100% sold either way. But while you feel it's most likely nothing, I'm leaning the opposite way.

Edit:

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Originally Posted by Robobandit

Thought I'd just leave this here -

Rein posted a rough translation of the live letter test broadcast -

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post997418

They are talking about Scholar.. and PR was upset at them for leaking it.

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I sadly have to agree with Moose on this one. Before I knew what was being said, I was pretty optimistic about Soken coming out in the mortar board, but having Yoshi-P then come out and fuss at them for leaking it does all sound more like a big practical joke than a sneaky reveal to me.

Hopefully tomorrow will bring concrete answers, either way.

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Originally Posted by Xeia

Well, some people have said that, yes. I'm not exactly in that camp. IF we are getting Scholar as a new job, then it's definitely a strong possibility that it's ACN's second job (and thus from the same guild), but I was no more fazed to see "SCH" and SMN both wielding books than I was to see BLM and WHM both wield staves. I neither like the idea that we'll be getting two jobs from one class nor find it particularly likely, for reasons I will be glad to discuss at greater lengths... in a couple weeks. So I'm still optimistically hoping we'll see SCH as a new job with a new class (tactician?) and its own guild.. though even I can admit the amount of cover-up that would be required to keep something of that extent quiet would be... well, rough.

Regardless, I'm sort of mirroring your thought process over the median here. I'm also not above admitting I'm wrong, and also not 100% sold either way. But while you feel it's most likely nothing, I'm leaning the opposite way.

Edit:

I sadly have to agree with Moose on this one. Before I knew what was being said, I was pretty optimistic about Soken coming out in the mortar board, but having Yoshi-P then come out and fuss at them for leaking it does all sound more like a big practical joke than a sneaky reveal to me.

Hopefully tomorrow will bring concrete answers, either way.

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It was PR who was fussing at them for leaking it.. not Yoshi. Yoshi told the PR guys that they were just as bad as him because they leaked Arcanist and Summoner earlier. Either way, we should know soon.

A big practical joke like this would be a bad PR move I'd think. Not sure they'd want to play with their player base during a MMO restart.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

A big practical joke like this would be a bad PR move I'd think. Not sure they'd want to play with their player base during a MMO restart.

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On that point I agree very firmly. And while I don't think they'd do it, it doesn't mean they wouldn't.

Frankly, I'm just glad someone's rebutting my points with something other than "It's a job wheel, case closed."

Xeia's right - the presence of the Vanya does make it just as (if not more) likely that those are extant armor dyed different colors - and I was able to back and make most, not all, but most of those sets with the existing class gear and new colors.

As for the video teaser, if I were someone who believed in SCH and I watched Yoshida's expression there, I'd have been like "CASE CLOSED." and refused to question why the PR guy let him come on with a mortarboard at all.

And, of course, I find it hard to let go of this quote when it was so recent:

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Originally Posted by GamerEscape

With ARR we’ll see Arcanist added with Summoner shortly after the game launches. Are there any other classes or jobs you’d like to see added? And will these be added in patches or expansions?

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Originally Posted by Naoki Yoshida

For the classes and jobs, we will introduce them through patches because all of the Legacy players have level 50 jobs anyway. When we introduce new classes and jobs we will probably increase the level cap at the same time.

About what I want to introduce, it’s more like what I think I have to introduce. Something related to guns because the (musketeer) guild in the game. Something related to that I think I have to introduce. Also I do feel that scouting classes are lacking so I want to bring in Theif, Ninja and those that have to do with stealth. Also more casters like Blue Mage and Red Mage are something I would like to add. Whatever the players want, I want too.

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That just sounds like he has much bigger plans than "First thing after Arcanist and Summoner, we release Scholar. That's what we need right now."

Maybe he did, though. Maybe they got SMN ready ahead of schedule, and made something else, and they figured SCH would be totally useful over BLU and RDM. I'd be shocked, though. I'd just not mention anything outside of lore ever again, lol.

(inb4 "GOOD, you shouldn't you dirty casual!")

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

That just sounds like he has much bigger plans than "First thing after Arcanist and Summoner, we release Scholar. That's what we need right now."

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I don't necessarily think that having bigger plans and releasing Scholar now are incompatible. Raising the level cap as they add more jobs is fine, but we know they're not raising it at launch. So that gives most veteran players only ACN to level -- when will there ever be a time where a second new class is more needed in terms of people not having enough to level?

And yes, I know they've added a lot of end-game stuff, but surely they want us to experience the journey as well as the destination. Not to mention that without a second class at start up, you can bet your boots we'll be seeing full parties of Arcanists toting entire packs of Carbuncles around the cliffs of La Noscea for at least a month. I'm definitely in favor of anything that'll mitigate that and hopefully they are too.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Maybe they got SMN ready ahead of schedule, and made something else, and they figured SCH would be totally useful over BLU and RDM.

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Away with your filthy logic! I want this, okay?! No, but I do agree that SCH is not the most logical choice for a ninth job. That's actually a point I made elsewhere when the image first cropped up. But SE doesn't necessarily have a history of releasing things in the order that I, personally, find most logical, so I'm hesitantly willing to overlook that. And if Scholar was already in the early stages of development when Yoshi-P made that comment, I don't find it too much of a stretch that he'd avoid mentioning it by name.

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Originally Posted by Xeia

Not to mention that without a second class at start up, you can bet your boots we'll be seeing full parties of Arcanists toting entire packs of Carbuncles around the cliffs of La Noscea for at least a month. I'm definitely in favor of anything that'll mitigate that and hopefully they are too.

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Oh, man, if this SCH thing happens, and it's attached to an entirely new class, I sure hope that wasn't their logic. "We're going to have nothing but parties of Arcanists. We better release a second class." "Good thinking, something physical?" "No, no. Something that'll lead to Scholar. I don't think the people want Thief badly enough, yet."

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Originally Posted by Xeia

Away with your filthy logic! I want this, okay?! No, but I do agree that SCH is not the most logical choice for a ninth job. That's actually a point I made elsewhere when the image first cropped up.

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I actually want it, too. I actually want all of the things I've argued as being unlikely. I want Scholar because I think it's an interesting and fun class, even if it wasn't terribly useful in FFXI and doesn't seem like a high priority need for ARR yet. I want it to be job branching because hell yeah two jobs for one grind, bitches! And if it's not job branching, I want Scholar to come from Musketeer because, seriously, take that people who are way too pushy about this. Still, if they managed to keep all of that secret this long, just WOW. Yoshida's already kind of a legend... he'd be a development demigod.

Scholar is a good fit. In February Yoshi-P said in the Massively interview (when discussing Arcanist) that the game was most lacking "a buff and debuffing role with added crowd control". "Role" could be a big keyword for "job", and maybe one job wasn't big enough to do all that. Scholar has been mostly a debuffer (detecting enemy weakness, removing buffs and even adding weaknesses to enemies). Maybe Summoner will be mostly buffer and crowd control? We'll see.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Oh, man, if this SCH thing happens, and it's attached to an entirely new class, I sure hope that wasn't their logic. "We're going to have nothing but parties of Arcanists. We better release a second class." "Good thinking, something physical?" "No, no. Something that'll lead to Scholar, I think. I'm not sure the people want Thief badly enough, yet."

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I was thinking more along the lines of, "Oh, yeah, Scholar. In for launch, you say? Good idea. Oh, and incidentally it would also make less arcanists running around!" That seems a more logical progression for the hypothetical conversation to have taken. You watch. The big reveal tomorrow will be that Thieves wear mortar boards and carry books. Stolen books.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I actually want it, too. I actually want all of the things I've argued as being unlikely. I want Scholar because I think it's an interesting and fun class, even if it wasn't terribly useful in FFXI and isn't really even necessary in ARR. I want it to be job branching because hell yeah two jobs for one grind, bitches! And if it's not job branching, I want Scholar to come from Musketeer because, seriously, take that people who are way too pushy about this. Still, if they managed to keep all of that secret this long, just WOW. Yoshida's already kind of a legend... he'd be a development demigod.

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MSK -> SCH. The sound of all my Corsair dreams dying would be audible. As for two jobs/one grind, that's sort of my main objection. I don't want a level 50 job I haven't touched.

Besides, with ACN/SMN being confirmed as primarily a DoT job, that still leaves a niche for the more traditional enfeebles (though that might be stepping on the toes of a potential RDM a little). Not to mention the interesting non-combat abilities SCH (/secretary) has had in the past. I'd love to know the actual HP on some of these mobs. Libra me up.

I don't think any other job is really "necessary" at the moment. All core party functions are covered. But I'd love to see more, as would pretty much the entire player base, so why not start with scholar if a forth full mage was the way they wanted to go?

Edit: (I seem to be typing very slowly today)

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Originally Posted by ArkhamNative

Scholar is a good fit. In February Yoshi-P said in the Massively interview (when discussing Arcanist) that the game was most lacking "a buff and debuffing role with added crowd control". "Role" could be a big keyword for "job", and maybe one job wasn't big enough to do all that. Scholar has been mostly a debuffer (detecting enemy weakness, removing buffs and even adding weaknesses to enemies). Maybe Summoner will be mostly buffer and crowd control? We'll see.

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In... I think the anniversary presentation? In some announcement, I'll hunt the source for you in a minute, Arcanist was confirmed as specializing in DoTs, with Carby having a "casting" and a "tanking" stance. That's all we know about that. But that does appear to still leave buffing, crowd control, and the non-DoT enfeebles up for grabs.

Editedit:
Mm, looks like I was wrong and Arcanist is mentioned as having regular debuffs as well. Which still definitely leaves buffing and possibly leaves crowd control free:

http://i49.tinypic.com/2jbh9v.png

The top part says it's a pet class, below that is listed the types of magic it is proficient with (HP reduction through DoT and weakening enemies through debuffs), then the bottom part mentions Carbuncle and you can obviously read the English for what it has to say about him.

Right now I'm just watching the JP forum. They skipped right over the "What if it's just an arcanist?" stage and went right from no mention of SCH to "JOB BRANCHING OR NEW CLASS?" lol

i'm betting it's a job branch.

It makes perfect sense to start having job branches, as otherwise they'd have to introduce a new class every time they want to introduce a new job, which would be massively unpractical.

Can't wait for job branching. Theres a ton of potential for it already. Marauder/Thaum could obviously lead to DRK. RDM could stem fom gladiator perhaps simply noting the sword and shield gameplay. Obviously archer could turn into a more specialized DD Ranger. So much possibility when these unlock. Only problem I see here is how to deal with jobs levelling up with classes.

The only thing I wonder is how they'll handle the branch itself.

If they made the jobs unlocked at the same level as the class (IE, if you have a 50 arcanist you get BOTH a 50 Scholar and a 50 summoner) it would also not be very practical, as it would completely defeat the purpose of adding new jobs to make people level up more and thus providing more stuff to do in the game.

I really wonder how they'll handle it. Maybe the jobs we already have will be considered basic jobs, while the new ones (including one between scholar and summoner) will be considered advanced jobs, and will be just unlocked at a certain class level, but will have to be leveled up from scratch...

so many possibilities...

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

A big practical joke like this would be a bad PR move I'd think. Not sure they'd want to play with their player base during a MMO restart.

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Maybe it'll teach people to quit reading into stuff so much. :P

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Originally Posted by Abriael

If they made the jobs unlocked at the same level as the class (IE, if you have a 50 arcanist you get BOTH a 50 Scholar and a 50 summoner) it would also not be very practical, as it would completely defeat the purpose of adding new jobs to make people level up more and thus providing more stuff to do in the game.

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Hardly defeat the purpose. You level up your job by completing quests, who are by no means easy no matter how much the hyper-elite wants to believe it. So any new job they add are still a questline to go along with it.

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Originally Posted by Skies

Hardly defeat the purpose. You level up your job by completing quests, who are by no means easy no matter how much the hyper-elite wants to believe it. So any new job they add are still a questline to go along with it.

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How much will that be, 4-6 hours of gameplay?

A questline, no matter how long and hard, is hardly comparable to leveling a job from 1 to 50 in terms of keeping players busy.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

Maybe it'll teach people to quit reading into stuff so much. :P

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Ehhh, you never know. I may have listed it as unlikely, but the JP threads seem to indicate little questioning of the exchange between the Yoshida and PR being a rather solid confirmation of sorts, as far as I can tell. No mentions of what if it's this, what if it's that... just boils down to "Branch or New Class?" It doesn't make me reassess my take on the probability, but it does make me question a little more seriously if they pulled improbable off right under our nose.

The facial expression and body language seem legit. Even if you don't know the translation it looks like, "Say what's on your head." "Oh, god, he's putting me on the spot." "Go ahead, I'm saying you can." "I don't want to..." "Just do it." "Fine, SCHOLAAA-" and the guy from offscreen gets involved. The only thing that doesn't add up is the story. Why even let him come on dressed like that if they weren't going to mention it? How would a "leak" occur through the package art? There was no way the release of the IE art or the box art would be a surprise to anyone.

However, I also agree that it'd be unlikely for SE to troll that hard. I'd believe Fernehalwes messing around for the sake of current events, I'd believe Soken dressing up for the sake of boosting ratings tomorrow... but... eeeehhhhh. Maybe!

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Originally Posted by Abriael

How much will that be, 4-6 hours of gameplay?

A questline, no matter how long and hard, is hardly comparable to leveling a job from 1 to 50 in terms of keeping players busy.

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I dunno it took me about, what, 10 hours or so even at level 50 for the Conjurer quests? It involved other involved things such as dungeon-diving partially.
Also as if levelling keeps a player busy anyway. What keeps a player busy is doing things, levelling is just a side-effect of doing something else.

Of course, if you think levelling itself is content then... We can't come to an agreement here and we must agree to disagree in this stance.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Ehhh, you never know. I may have listed it as unlikely, but the JP threads seem to indicate little questioning of the exchange between the Yoshida and PR being a rather solid confirmation of sorts, as far as I can tell. No mentions of what if it's this, what if it's that... just boils down to "Branch or New Class?" It doesn't make me reassess my take on the probability, but it does make me question a little more seriously if they pulled improbable off right under our nose.

The facial expression and body language seem legit. Even if you don't know the translation it looks like, "Say what's on your head." "Oh, god, he's putting me on the spot." "Go ahead, I'm saying you can." "I don't want to..." "Just do it." "Fine, SCHOLAAA-" and the guy from offscreen gets involved. The only thing that doesn't add up is the story. Why even let him come on dressed like that if they weren't going to mention it? How would a "leak" occur through the package art? There was no way the release of the IE art or the box art would be a surprise to anyone.

However, I also agree that it'd be unlikely for SE to troll that hard. I'd believe Fernehalwes messing around for the sake of current events, I'd believe Soken dressing up for the sake of boosting ratings tomorrow... but... eeeehhhhh. Maybe!

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Thats really the whole problem here: How well do we really know these people? Is Yoshi capable of total mindfucks? We do not know!

I thought it was Scholar... but now I think it's Arcanist because of the art they use for Arcanist and Summoner on the official website. Both characters that appear in the concept are are the same characters who appear in this "job wheel."

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...Y9-QPnoxCs.jpg lol here's wishing

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Originally Posted by Forgo

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...Y9-QPnoxCs.jpg lol here's wishing

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Hehe <3 Forgo! >=D

I'm calling it. Official (in my mind), Scholar and Summoner will both be jobs for Arcanist! I will argue nonsensically til death or boredom with any naysayers.

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Originally Posted by Zoloe

I thought it was Scholar... but now I think it's Arcanist because of the art they use for Arcanist and Summoner on the official website. Both characters that appear in the concept are are the same characters who appear in this "job wheel."

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I just don't get what's so hard. Yoshi goats him 3 times into saying it, and he finally says it

Soken: I can’t say it from my mouth...
Yoshi: it’s Scholar right?
Yoshi: you want to say Scholar right?
Yoshi: I’ll say it again, this is Scholar right?
Soken: Yes it’s Scholar!

This is just there usual silliness, tomorrow will be the official talk about how Scholar will function in ARR.

"Please look forward to it"

Yea... I didn't watch that. I think it's SCH, but that is the same character in the concept art for Arcanist is it not?

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Originally Posted by Zoloe

Yea... I didn't watch that. I think it's SCH, but that is the same character in the concept art for Arcanist is it not?

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Kinda irrelavant if it is the same character or not. We saw CG midlander to from archer to warrior etc. If people are going to nitpick that it is the same character Imma nitpick and say one has white hair and one is clearly blonde :D I win!

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Originally Posted by Destain

Kinda irrelavant if it is the same character or not. We saw CG midlander to from archer to warrior etc. If people are going to nitpick that it is the same character Imma nitpick and say one has white hair and one is clearly blonde :D I win!

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Haha Whatever, I'm just pointing it out! ^^ (I hope she is a Scholar)
Also, the Summoner is the same character... I'm just looking at the patern. ^^;

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Originally Posted by Skies

Of course, if you think levelling itself is content then... We can't come to an agreement here and we must agree to disagree in this stance.

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From a development perspective, yes, leveling itself is content. It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree, leveling new classes is a very compelling element to keep people playing longer. This doesn't mean that devs won't add more stuff to do, but they have absolutely no reason to give up that advantage.

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Originally Posted by Skies

I dunno it took me about, what, 10 hours or so even at level 50 for the Conjurer quests? It involved other involved things such as dungeon-diving partially.
Also as if levelling keeps a player busy anyway. What keeps a player busy is doing things, levelling is just a side-effect of doing something else.

Of course, if you think levelling itself is content then... We can't come to an agreement here and we must agree to disagree in this stance.

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@_@ its nice to see some one else on the same page as me :D

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Originally Posted by Zoloe

Haha Whatever, I'm just pointing it out! ^^ (I hope she is a Scholar)
Also, the Summoner is the same character... I'm just looking at the patern. ^^;

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(I know I really hope too)

It is Scholar!!!

I am not saying the girl in the "job wheel" photo isn't an Arcanist, I am saying she is an Arcanist that has her Scholar job stone and AF equipped :D! I sound like the Ancient Aliens guy on history channel

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Originally Posted by Abriael

How much will that be, 4-6 hours of gameplay?

A questline, no matter how long and hard, is hardly comparable to leveling a job from 1 to 50 in terms of keeping players busy.

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That's like being upset with a skill tree. It would actually take more time since you'd have to do quests instead of just buying new skills.

I think you are reading too much into this...

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

I think you are reading too much into this...

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Yeah of course we are. They're doing all that just to tell us "LOLLOL WE TROLLED YOU!"

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Originally Posted by Destain

(I know I really hope too)

It is Scholar!!!

I am not saying the girl in the "job wheel" photo isn't an Arcanist, I am saying she is an Arcanist that has her Scholar job stone and AF equipped :D! I sound like the Ancient Aliens guy on history channel

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They've been planning this since the beginning. That's why they drew attention to Soken and his Knee high's, and also why Soken posted pics of knee highs on twitter. Illuminati...ish!

STILL sitting in the Arcanist camp, where I'm envisaging the scholar outfit being worn by the arcanist guildmaster, much like how E-Sumi can be seen wearing the Vanya (yes, we're allowed to talk about Gridania), making it class-only gear for spellcasters in the same vein.

I have no issues if I'm wrong. Just placing my bets.

Hopefully all our questions will be answered soon.

- It's either an ARC wearing scholar clothes. Perhaps they're planning class specific equipments as well.
- Or simply a new Job Scholar
- Or perhaps they're adding a new class/job(scholar). Who will use books and them changing ARC and SMN to use the original 1.0 arcanist weapons instead. Yes, there has been art. But it was nothing more than concept art. They can still change their mind and decided to change their main weapons.

In any case, we'll know soon enough what's going on.

With only a few hours until the live letter, I can't find the will to care about it anymore. However, whatever the outcome, I will be revisiting an old favorite image to poke fun at the argument... just need to wait to figure out which version to post...

I really don't prefer Scholar over many jobs. I would just rather believe in a flexible, perhaps "new and improved" job system, rather than think Team Yoshida would take a classic Final Fantasy job, any of them, beat it up and steal its clothes. If the picture showed Red Mage AF with a sword, I tend to think there would be more "it's Red Mage!", but there would still be some fiercely adamant "it must be Gladiator!!".

Ah well. Nothing left to argue. Like the song says, It's All Over But The Crying (Garbage version, natch).

aren't the archons, scholars from Sharlayan? (whatever it's called) so you could learn from them.
since elemental wheel is now, meh, maybe scholar (if it's a bit like in XI) can buff casters, to deal more elemental damage.
would make more sense to add scholar, than RDM, BLU or whatever.