Marriage feedback [inofficial Poll]

Kye I would click Like on that picture a thousand times if I could.

I also demand that Square Enix remove all magic. The use of magic goes against my religion, so I therefore demand on religious principals that no magic should be in the game.

OH WAIT, THAT'S CRAZY LOL

Gay marriage doesn't hurt anyone, and this is a conversation about imaginary gay marriage...

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Loggos

You have to understand that while most of us do treat the game and our characters within it as not of this world and compeltely seperate from our daily lives, there are many people out there who do/do not want to see things included in games because of their beliefs. I agree wholeheartedly that allowing this in the game does not really (and should not) impact anything outside of the game, but not everyone does, and different regions of the world can have drastically different feelings on the subject.

Because of this, it's extremely unlikely that this is going to be added to the game anytime soon, even though it has strong support (especially from certain regions).

(I live in Maine which just voted to legalize it, and I voted for it as well- even though I am not of the GLBT crowd, I respect the desires of these people and I don't feel like it affects or infringes on me in any way)

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To get this straight: I know about all this and I also posted in my opening post that I know about the sensitivity of this topic.
I know about the importance, specially because it affects me myself (not only in respect of sexuality but also regarding the (in)separability of game and real life).

What I was getting at with my comment on Eagleheart is that he seemed to think I opened a thread to discuss the shift of norms and society but like I said - while I knew that a profound discussion was inevitable - the initial purpose was not to discuss a social issue for the sake of discussing a social issue (because that would be off-topic for a FF gaming forum) but whether it should be added ingame or not.

As many pointed out there are more things to add it ingame than homosexuality.

There are also those who are not gay but play same gender characters, there is marketing strategies, there is rpg.


Appologies for being unclear on this before. I didn't mean to be respectless in any way when saying this was for the game's sake.

I think 212 yes's to 46 no's says "Add in, in any way you can, marriage that does not restrict same-sex marriages at some point in time in 2.0"

As said, official poll should be done anyways. It will show more, especially for the people that avoid the forums. But this does show a lot.

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Originally Posted by Reika

I think 212 yes's to 46 no's says "Add in, in any way you can, marriage that does not restrict same-sex marriages at some point in time in 2.0"

As said, official poll should be done anyways. It will show more, especially for the people that avoid the forums. But this does show a lot.

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Also those of other nations/cultures

how about we make sure that it is the gender of the player and not the character, that way there can be fantasy homosexual marriage but not real. Either that or polygamy is required for marriage in game, minimum three players. Semper trie, nunquam duo.

In all seriousness, marriage amongst adventurers may lead to a nice feeling for some, but i would think that there are a lot of more pressing issues for the dev team at this time. Please also remember that your area of the world may have vastly different ideals about marriage than in other areas.

I would suggest that if you have someone in mind for in game marriage, now (and up to six months after launch, if my information is correct) is the time to plan what gender you will be playing. I am sure that once the team has everything for the game mechanics and environment ready, they will work on a marriage system eventually. Whether it be opposite gender of the same race and clan, or anyone to anything. If you want to marry a tree, you have to have consent of the elemental inhabiting it first.

Sorry, can't help myself...One more thing then I'm hiding this thread

A lot of kids/people who play games like this are trying to escape a harsh reality. (It used to be me with FFXI) Think of all the kids that get bullied for being, or just being perceived as gay. Think of all the ones that have tried, or actually took their lives. (For no other reason than for being themselves, for loving someone) Now imagine if they had one place, just one place, even if it was imaginary, where they felt accepted. One place where it was OK to feel and think and say what came naturally to them. If this decision saved 1 person's life, would it be worth it to you, even if it went against your Religion?

Tossing in my 2 gil, I'd say sure, why not add same sex marriage? No reason to exclude people. <3

Heck, people play the opposite gender characters rather often anyway, so not having same gender marriage seems rather strange to me.

And in a fun fantasy game with guys running around playing female characters and girls running around playing male characters and cat-people and giant green people and teeny pointy-eared weebles running around and riding giant yellow birds and teleporting, it seems a shame to let real-world gender issues seep in as a concern.

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Originally Posted by Huginn

how about we make sure that it is the gender of the player and not the character, that way there can be fantasy homosexual marriage but not real. Either that or polygamy is required for marriage in game, minimum three players. Semper trie, nunquam duo.

In all seriousness, marriage amongst adventurers may lead to a nice feeling for some, but i would think that there are a lot of more pressing issues for the dev team at this time. Please also remember that your area of the world may have vastly different ideals about marriage than in other areas.

I would suggest that if you have someone in mind for in game marriage, now (and up to six months after launch, if my information is correct) is the time to plan what gender you will be playing. I am sure that once the team has everything for the game mechanics and environment ready, they will work on a marriage system eventually. Whether it be opposite gender of the same race and clan, or anyone to anything. If you want to marry a tree, you have to have consent of the elemental inhabiting it first.

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I think this is just taking it a little bit to the extremes. . . . First of, a real life husband could be the account holder of both his and his wife's game accounts (listed as <male> account) leading to not being able to marry his real life wife in game. Besides, it's just a middle finger to the LGBT community saying "It's ok if you're gay ingame, but please no homo in real life" :p

The second solution hits me on a more personal level, as I'd never get that bent out of shape. I do care about marriage game mechanic (yup, I do find such stuff fun while taking a break from smashing skulls and burning stuff), but not so much that I would force myself into identifying with a game character of the opposite sex, just to be able to enjoy that aspect of the game, nor would I want to, or even like to, require that my chosen marriage candidate does so @_@

I don't even know if I will ever marry anyone in ARR, but if I chose to, I just want to be able to experience that content with whomever I chose. No restrictions.

I do know that your suggestions were made with a good intention, but it's just a few things that I could pinpoint as perhaps not being able to work well in practice, when I first read it ^ ^;

I agree they should implement it and at least allow the feature for those who want to. I agree that there was probably larger issues for the Dev team to be working on but as I see it there isn't a real purpose for marriage in this game at all other than to be able to do it. So why would you add a pointless feature and limit who can access it. Seems pointless to me. If they had issues with same sex marriage then why implement a marriage feature at all?

They should allow it for no other reason than sometimes people don't always make their character the same gender as themselves.. if a husband and a wife play and they are both playing females, let them marry, why not? That aside, I do strongly support gay marriage and would want to see the game take a similar equal-rights stance, as much of our world continues to evolve accordingly in this direction.

And still that being said... I also know the game is a business. As a result, they have to consider the PR problems and upset partial player base that would result from making the "wrong" decision either way.. because of this, they may just avoid making any decision at all.

Ultimately though, I think if you don't want to give equal in-game marriage rights to every couple, you shouldn't implement in-game marriage at all. That would be the true "We're not making any decision one way or another" stance, as opposed to implementing one-sided marriage and calling it a "fragile" issue to do otherwise.

The idea of it being a problem will be a "over the shoulder observation". Seeing how america is still having issues with it because of conservative christians. If they added it from the beginning... it wouldnt of been a problem. But they have reason for not doing it. Honestly non gamers wouldnt even know that they were married if they stood together...

I think it should be allowed.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

This thread is going to end up locked unfortunately.

I'm really glad to see so many more people are ok with the idea of same sex marriage. Our society truly is heading in the direction of full acceptance of it and my partner of 8 years and I never thought we'd see that in our life time. There is still hope that one day we will be able to get married even here in the state of Florida.

As far as FFXIV goes, I would never use the marriage feature in the game at all, but I strongly feel that if it is going to be in game at all that it be inclusive and allow same-sex coupling as well. Love and let love.

The people who don't like it can go to hell. They no longer speak for the majority. Adapt or go extinct.

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I would like to respond to you in two ways, if i may, before the thread locks.

First, Durable medical power of attorney, look into it. With this and about four other legal documents, you might as well be married in the state of Florida except you will not be able to file your taxes jointly and you might have some problems with insurance.

Secondly, I would very much like to point out that you said "The people who don't like it can go to hell. They no longer speak for the majority. Adapt or go extinct." This is so full of hate and contradiction, where do i start? i guess i should take it in the order which it appears, and give each part its own paragraph.

I see that you equate homosexuality with either the Democrat party or with this unofficial like farming survey alone, based on your statement of "the majority."

I also not that you believe that the minority can just go to hell, and that if they do not bend to the will of the barely majority they should go extinct. Would you also then take this same idea on the reverse? when whatever you feel is the measure of the majority finds itself on the other side, would you wish yourself and your partner to go to hell and become extinct?

You are actually making the comment about those who oppose same gender unions to go extinct. This is quite ironic, considering that the human race once lost an entire tribe to non reproduction of homosexuality (i am not going to bother citing this).

Please calm down and stop the vitriolic hate. The existence of gay marriage doesnt "hurt" anyone, and neither does prostitution, gambling, hardcore drug use or kittens. The misuse of these things can hurt people.

Gay marriage can hurt people who are not expecting two bouquets though. Dony sit there prancing around celebrating your catching of the first when the second comes hurdling toward your eyeball.

same sex marriage is cool with me, specially in real life. in game i vote ok to it too, only thing i don't like is wasting resources on making a church to get married in ..in the first place. it's probably something almost half the players won't do or will do just to see the cs. why argue in every mmo in creation that casual is needed to be priority cause they are the higher numbers of players then add things in game that probably 20% will end up enjoying?

it's like the chocobo races in ffxi or the Colosseum, those zones were empty ...literally empty. those type of things no one really does in a mmo (that most enjoy progression and reward in.) the part that people do is the quests prior to it to be able to do those things. that one month is usually packed with players to get a pass or entrance to them, then empty. doing those quests = reward entrance and getting to see this new awesome thing that ends up being a dinky horrible reward.

but it's moot point in questioning this addition since they are adding it and they think there is enough people that would enjoy it ...guess they don't get that if 90% vote yes on it that there is still probably 70% of the real game pop that don't vote or even log into these forums. the numbers don't transfer over to the minds and thoughts and actions of those who don't waist there time here voting. the empty rooms are proof enough. if you give a tv show idea to a closed audience and they all love it doesn't mean it's going to be a hit when they air it. but that is my opinion about it.

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Originally Posted by Arec

The idea of it being a problem will be a "over the shoulder observation". Seeing how america is still having issues with it because of conservative christians. If they added it from the beginning... it wouldnt of been a problem. But they have reason for not doing it. Honestly non gamers wouldnt even know that they were married if they stood together...

I think it should be allowed.

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It really wouldn't be a problem at all. Not anymore.

The conservative religious right has been attempting to stir up trouble for game companies that have same-sex marriage/relationships without success for several years now. Just ask Bioware, Bethesda, and EA.

Hey guys, i figured out the perfect solution.

Anyone can get married to anyone else, you go to an NPC and buy wedding rings that do not say to whom you are married, you have an instanced ceremony that only NPCs are allowed to attend and there is absolutely no outward display to show any player the identity of to whom you have been wed.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

The people who don't like it can go to hell. They no longer speak for the majority. Adapt or go extinct.

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It's funny when minority groups become the so-called 'majority' and become intolerant themselves.

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Originally Posted by Huginn

Hey guys, i figured out the perfect solution.

Anyone can get married to anyone else, you go to an NPC and buy wedding rings that do not say to whom you are married, you have an instanced ceremony that only NPCs are allowed to attend and there is absolutely no outward display to show any player the identity of to whom you have been wed.

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think this is horrible idea, feels like hiding. i'm not gay or have it in mind to marry anyone in game but i would say it's like legalizing medical marijuana and making me act like i'm sick just to smoke some weed. it's not the same as just straight excepting it.

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Originally Posted by Huginn

Hey guys, i figured out the perfect solution.

Anyone can get married to anyone else, you go to an NPC and buy wedding rings that do not say to whom you are married, you have an instanced ceremony that only NPCs are allowed to attend and there is absolutely no outward display to show any player the identity of to whom you have been wed.

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Huginn, again, I'll have to step in :p

I can take screenshots, or anyone else can, post them in my Lodestone blog, and people would still be upset cause I was allowed to marry a. . . . Coincounter or one of the Chimmy's heads :p It doesn't even matter who we're married to at this point, it seems - what matters is as long as the said Chimmy's head is female, people will cheer and LOL at my choice, no matter how all else seems ridiculous. Even if the female Chimmy head is wearing a top hat and I, as a male, am in a wedding gown.

lol, I do think this is a bazaar issue personally..
I get the RL things with some people not liking it and that's their choice.

An I do get why SE are trying to stay away from it, but I think they went the wrong way personally.

1st they are basically saying they are ok with interspecies relationship but not gender.

2nd They allow Real life M/M, F/F, H/H couples to marry in game (playing different sex's) but real life M/F couples both with Male or female not too?

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Originally Posted by Wynn

It really wouldn't be a problem at all. Not anymore.

The conservative religious right has been attempting to stir up trouble for game companies that have same-sex marriage/relationships without success for several years now. Just ask Bioware, Bethesda, and EA.

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EA/Bioware and Bethesda are both terrible companies that make have been making terrible, buggy games. The LGBT nonsense was shoehorned into Mass Effect 3.

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Originally Posted by Kuzak

It's funny when minority groups become the so-called 'majority' and become intolerant themselves.

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I like how you wait to pounce on certain things said to make your point, it's cute.

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Originally Posted by Kye

imma just post pics why i personally think there should be same-sex marriage in eorzea ^^
http://i.imgur.com/a6DUW.jpg

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Well, lalafells of course. I mean I can't tell if thats 2 girls, 2 boys or a girl and a boy can you? XD

But seriously imo i could care less i never understood the argument although I am to lazy and don't care enough to try to understand why ppl are all up tight about it. Me personally the way I would handle it is if everyone wanted to be treated equally i wouldn't allow any marriage at all, and when everyone in the world starts complaining you can go ok but if we allow it than we are going to treat ppl like ppl and let anyone get married. Or something.

Best idea is that one person that said to switch the word marriage to bonding or something. idk why but i see countless ppl that are against same sex marriage that if they see 2 gay ppl get married there against it. But I have even tested it out in a college psychology experiment that over 80% of the ppl that where against same sex marriage, if u changed the word from marriage to 2 men or 2 women where bonded to share there lives together (which essentially means the same thing as marriage) than there ok with it. Idk maye they just wanna feel superior or something?

If our election says anything (here in the states), this would certainly get ffxiv ARR a lot more press. However, it would alienate a good chunk of players in the bible belt/deep south (surprisingly, there are a good amount of those).

I'm all for it, if they institute in game divorce. Gay people are just like everyone else, they deserve to lose half their shit in a messy legal battle.

I vote yes on same-sex marriage. Reality is that most of the female avatars are played by IRL males anyway. So same-sex marriage will be happening... Personally, I don't want to change my character's gender just so I can marry a friend to get the percs. Also, I don't want to marry someone just for an achievement unless I can also get divorced. Finally, I want prenups!

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

I like how you wait to pounce on certain things said to make your point, it's cute.

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Don't even bother paying attention to him. He's yet to answer a single question he's been asked, or even acknowledge it to begin with. . . .

It's easy being a coward attaching himself to other people's post and wuss out whenever he's confronted. Those reasons why I can't take him for anything more than a common troll :)

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Originally Posted by Deakka

I'm all for it, if they institute in game divorce. Gay people are just like everyone else, they deserve to lose half their shit in a messy legal battle.

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I don't think anyone would oppose that, cause I've never ever heard a member of the LGBT community saying they want equal rights (marriage) but without the divorce, irl or in game :p

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Originally Posted by Kuzak

It's funny when minority groups become the so-called 'majority' and become intolerant themselves.

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It's also funny when perpetrators play the victim. Excuse people for not being on-board with your bigoted opinion. Just because you have the right to feel a certain way and voice it doesn't automatically make your opinion void of hatred. You are protecting your right to speak your mind, but let's not pretend that you are not protecting your right to hate on top of it.

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Originally Posted by Kuzak

It's funny when minority groups become the so-called 'majority' and become intolerant themselves.

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Yes. I'll freely admit. I'm intolerant of bigotry and blind hatred.

Just like I'm intolerant of people murdering me or draining my bank account.

It is a good thing that intolerance to bad things and bad behavior is what makes this world continue to progress through all the civil rights issues of the past two centuries.

It is awesome that society became intolerant of injustices against people of color. It is awesome that society became intolerant of injustices to women. It is awesome that rich business men can no longer put children to work in conditions that are dangerous for an incredibly small pittance.

As far as the adapt or go extinct comment, that is not saying you guys should go die. It is simply a statement that as fewer and fewer people share your outdated views, they (those views) will eventually die with you. Don't be on the wrong side of history.

It's rather ridiculous. It's their life, not yours. Why should they have to live based on your religion and personal beliefs?

Hmm.. what about this idea (For the odd times i join in the RP).

That little old saving spell went wrong and Esk wakes back up in 2.0 with something extra. :D
I will have to do save sex marriage and non same sex at the same time! :p

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Originally Posted by Kuzak

It's funny when minority groups become the so-called 'majority' and become intolerant themselves.

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Lol even so i think its pretty well within their right seeings how the new minority acted before. on the other hand theyd be the even better person to not act that way.

hmmm i really don't care, if they do fine if they done im still fine, i'm more concern about the end game and how the game is going to function in the ARR, if everything goes well then they can do what ever they want. but more important now is about the game play production. ^.^

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Originally Posted by Wynn

It is awesome that society became intolerent of injustices against people of color. It is awesome that society became intolerant of injustices to women. It is awesome that rich business men can no longer put children to work in conditions that are dangerous for an incredibly small pittance.

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You really are dumb, all of those things are still a reality. I guess homosexuality and naivety go hand-in-hand.

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Originally Posted by Kuzak

You really are dumb, all of those things are still a reality. I guess homosexuality and naivety go hand-in-hand.

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I dont think in the united states it is... is it?

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Originally Posted by Kuzak

You really are dumb, all of those things are still a reality.

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You're right. We still have work to do. There are still people who are racist. There are still people who are sexist. And I'm sure, somewhere, people are still exploiting children.

Fortunately, society's general and overwhelming intolerance to these practices have made it both rare and unpopular to express and/or act upon without real legal consequences. The same is happening, and will continue to happen, in regard to LGBT rights as well.

Progress is a beautiful thing.

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

Again, a cursory examination of the facts will reveal that what I said is true. (o.O)> Adieu.

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This guys entire argument was based on our "population diminishing" and "not being able to be a family unit" yet we've gone from 2 billion to 7 billion (and rising at an incredible rate) in the span of less than an entire life and there's also something called adoption. Not to mention his argument discredits a very important factor; emotion. Marriage has an extremely important emotional aspect and to deny that fact or call it irrelevant completely ignores the human aspect of things and implies the mindset that humans are mere cattle and marriage is simply a tool to procreate.

This brings me to the main counter to your entire argument, why do you think people get married? Only to procreate more children? What if a woman can bare no children for one of the various reasons that could happen or a man was not fertile or even if the couple chose not to have children? Does that apply the same rule to them as well and infertile couples should be denied the right to marriage? Under your naturalist argument, shouldn't same sex female couples be allowed since they can still have children with the aid of a sperm donor? This going off the fact that in a natural setting, marriage is for not procreating but for raising a child together. Or is this just showing the discrimination in your points?

People get married in real life because they love someone (Barring special cases such as arranged marriages) and same sex couples do love each other with the same intensity as opposite gender couples. And I put extra emphasis on people, because LGBT or straight, that's what you are talking about here. Not cattle whom only has the sole purpose of making this planet unsustainable with overpopulation, but people with feelings and emotion.

This is the best argument that those opposed to this have? Two completely irrelevant and inaccurate arguments that have nothing to do with FFXIV? And others calling it "political"? Others saying it will effect sales when video games that let you do MUCH worse like cut someone in half with a chainsaw become best sellers? Nonsense, all of it.

P.S. I do not in any way mean this in an insulting or rude way, but you really need to start looking at things in a truly objective way instead of this absolutist point of view that your point of view is infallible. You're coming off as a high-horse type with your ears plugged.

lt;dr main point - SE just give this to us at launch and save the despair of alienating a large portion of your player base. You are making the LGBT community feel unwanted and discriminated against but if that's not good enough, you are also inconveniencing real couples (or just friends) who have characters of the same gender that want their characters to be married together.

Side note: let's not give the hateful type in this thread any attention less we want this thread locked. At least Eagle presents his point of view in a non-hateful objective way without the name calling (right or wrong).

Not even sure I will marry anyone, if I do it will probably be one of my friends who is a guy in real life and maybe in character as well.

I would like to see a binding ceromony as an option - not to replace those who really do want a same sex marriage but for those like myself who think it would be cool to have binding features with someone but not really care for a wedding themed ceremony.

(I am heterosexual married male - maybe my mental issue but I think marrying someone not my wife (who doesn't play) and also female would be a little weird - binding brother relationship would be bad-ass option (again I don't care if there is a same sex marriage, just my extra two cents want to have option))

Oh no, it's huginn again, someone please handle this!

Apparently a great many of us do not understand sarcasm or satire or any other form of writing other than literal.
When i say i dont care if you marry a tree, i mean i dont care what gender the tree is. When i say that we have to make sure the players are not homosexual but characters are ok, i figured that this was such high hyperbole that no one would possibly take it seriously.

and when i make a comment and then have to use the phrase "in all seriousness," that means that the previous comment was most likely not the heartfelt truth.

What i actually do mean is that I believe that pushing your own personal agenda on something that does not affect the game in a meaningful manner is ridiculous. Is it really very important for someone's civil rights that they be allowed to marry in a virtual world? Do you have to try to stir up trouble with cultures that you do not understand?

I actually do not care what you do with yourselves, so long as you exercise personal responsibility and take responsibility for the consequences of your actions. Additionally, that last sentence was a generalization, i am not insinuating that there are some kind of dire consequence to homosexuality. I am sick and tired of the exceptionally exclusive GBLT club, no heterosexuals, no hermaphrodites and no asexuals or quirky alones. Take your agenda and go have fun, but stop badgering me.

I ask you this one question: What does my marriage between myself, a man, and my wife, a woman, do to damage your life? Stop telling me that i am to go to hell because i am the minority (the group who doesnt care what your marital status and eligibility is based on gender). I also have some news for you, even california voted to forbid gay marriage, you are indeed in the minority, they call it "the vocal minority."

I just like the one I felt appropriate in the OP and didn't read the entire thread, so I apologize if I repeat anything already said.


Same-sex marriage is fine by me. However, I also understand why SE is treading carefully, as this is a fiery topic.