Worqor Chirteh feedback

Can they just delete this map already? Its so boring. Damage numbers are extremely low across the board. There is so little actual pvp on this map. The minor adjustments they have made have done nothing to fix it.

Its a joke that this map ever got approved. It exists to make the game less fun, to make seal rock and onsal queues take longer for the people that actually enjoy pvp.

Its amazing they managed to create a map even worse than secure.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

... because it's somehow the most anti-PVP map they've given us yet, while also having the worst cases of snowball matches (involving actual snow no less)...

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Lmao I love the pun xD (btw you're right on the anti-PvP, even though I personnally find some maps less fun in general than this one, and on the snowball b****sh*t)

I stopped doing the daily "challenge" because I simply kept getting it; while I do have terrible RNG (And I do mean Terrible RNG- I had a D&D session where I got at least three nat 1's in a row on game store dice) the fact that out of seven days I queued up for it, I got it every day.

Much like what everyone said, I would spend all my time riding to one side, not actually doing anything, getting to the point and seeing the node on my map get claimed. It got boring just doing that time in and out that I just stopped queuing all together. I had hopes that I would get one of the other modes for the daily challenge but "Triumph" kept forcing itself in past my door like an unwanted sitcom neighbor. I guess it's not wrong though- it is challenging... to not die of boredom.

There's only so much "At least the exp is good..." that you can convince yourself with before the well runs dry and you just stop.

I cannot wait for it to stop being available everyday so I can actually get one of the maps I do enjoy playing- like Secure, Shatter, and Naadam.

Incredible slop and boring map. Constant running, minimum fights and low scores everywhere unless you are with premades which makes it much easier to win. Most people will have 6-10 loses in a row on this map per day until they finally get a win, that's how bad it is.

If you are winning, chances are that at the end your team gets sandwiched or does stupid thing (e.g. chase to base and lose everything). Plus RNG is brutal and can spawn S ranks at someone's base so its easy win for them.
Garbage map.

Aside from this, respawn timers seem to be instant and this creates a problem yet again.

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Originally Posted by MayuAmakura

Incredible slop and boring map. Constant running, minimum fights and low scores everywhere unless you are with premades which makes it much easier to win. Most people will have 6-10 loses in a row on this map per day until they finally get a win, that's how bad it is.

If you are winning, chances are that at the end your team gets sandwiched or does stupid thing (e.g. chase to base and lose everything). Plus RNG is brutal and can spawn S ranks at someone's base so its easy win for them.
Garbage map.

Aside from this, respawn timers seem to be instant and this creates a problem yet again.

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So what you are saying is, Worqor Chirteh is EXACTLY like every other Frontlines map?

when you get alliance where people don't split up, it can be very fun
but something in this map's design makes it not very likely. might be the long distances? also i think there is generally more nodes active at one time, or then im just hallucinating

or then it is the usual, people not looking at their map and rushing to nodes when obviously someone else has whole of their manpower there, already, with more BH...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

First, I want to be clear that I am not a fan of this map, nor am I trying to defend it.
That said, the issues many of you are experiencing seem to stem from one main factor: this mode doesn’t allow the usual “Horde Stampede” approach to work effectively.
The design clearly pushes players into smaller group skirmishes rather than large mindless zergs.

In EU/NA, the default solution for almost every mode has been to rely on mass grouping, often playing everything as if it were Onsal Hakair.
Because of that, I wouldn’t be surprised if this is exactly the kind of behavior SE is trying to discourage.
Looking at the design of the updated Secure map and this new mode, it’s pretty clear they are intentionally reinforcing small scale engagements.
In a way, this mode feels like the culmination of that design philosophy.
Rather than trying to force old strategies onto a system that no longer supports them, we likely need to adapt: split into smaller groups and find better ways to coordinate

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

First, I want to be clear that I am not a fan of this map, nor am I trying to defend it.
That said, the issues many of you are experiencing seem to stem from one main factor: this mode doesn’t allow the usual “Horde Stampede” approach to work effectively.
The design clearly pushes players into smaller group skirmishes rather than large mindless zergs.

In EU/NA, the default solution for almost every mode has been to rely on mass grouping, often playing everything as if it were Onsal Hakair.
Because of that, I wouldn’t be surprised if this is exactly the kind of behavior SE is trying to discourage.
Looking at the design of the updated Secure map and this new mode, it’s pretty clear they are intentionally reinforcing small scale engagements.
In a way, this mode feels like the culmination of that design philosophy.
Rather than trying to force old strategies onto a system that no longer supports them, we likely need to adapt: split into smaller groups and find better ways to coordinate

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I get what you're saying, and think it makes sense- on paper. I still don't find the map to be "too large;" the issue is that it seems people think they're entitled to be able to travel to and reasonably contest every perimeter point from everywhere else on the map, even if it's on the opposite side. I don't think teams are meant to be able to throw their entire team at one side and reasonably expect to get the bulk of their team into position on the opposite side right after the same way you can in Onsal.

Here's the problem though; numbers is still king in Frontline skirmishes, and there are still three teams. Almost every time your team tries to "split" in anticipation of a "smaller group skirmish" for more than one point, one of two outcomes tend to happen. The first is each of your groups of ~12 players gets overrun, wiped and farmed by ~24 "horde stampeding" players from two full separate teams in the opposite directions. Congratulations, your team lost points, ended up with no flags claimed, and gave both teams free Battle High.

The second is maybe one of the other teams didn't push one of your smaller groups, and you have a bunch of people standing around claiming an uncontested point, while leaving your other team of ~12 to still get rolled when they probably could have used the manpower to fight back.

Until the PvP intern devs give a big enough carrot to incentivize players to need to split-up regularly and actually penalize horde stampeding to the point of it being an unsustainable tactic, the horde stampede is here to stay. In that regard, that's one thing Rival Wings does better.

After having ran Triumph long enough by now, my biggest criticism is that map tries to be symmetrical but does a poor job of it. The three perimeter flags (southwest, southeast and northeast) that spawn between each team's spawn areas are heavily skewed towards yellow, and stacked against red in terms of travel distance. Yellow team will always get the bulk of their team to both points before either other team can arrive. The same is true for blue team in southwest against red; they'll have their team on the platform before red can even start going up the stairs.

I don't think it's the map that is too large as a sum, but the outer bumpers should be brought in. Getting from mid ramp up to an outer node, or rotation from two adjacent corners, is too long. On the other hand, mid feels like the perfect size. Respawn distance into strategic interests is good, too. Love the stairs with strategic cover to benefit defenders.

I don't think the map is too large. In fact, I think it might even work being slightly larger - if we got the ability to set up our own forward respawn points (destroyable, of course). That's such a common thing in many MMOs with a strong PvP component, I wonder why FFXIV didn't "steal" the idea yet.

I wish the weather events had different orders sometimes, it's always snow >aurora. Better yet, I wish there was more weather events that could even be cycled through.

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Originally Posted by Sunhwapark

I wish the weather events had different orders sometimes, it's always snow >aurora. Better yet, I wish there was more weather events that could even be cycled through.

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Aw yeah. Imagine if a windy condition would raise your ranged attack range... as long as you use it in the wind direction. And lower it in the other direction. Suddenly, you have to pay attention to which way you're facing in relation to the OpFor!

Feedback after 1+ additional week of doing it:

- Lowest damage map.
- Tons of running forth and back and it gets tedious.
- Half of the time the RNG point spawn screws your team over.
- Your team pushes to enemy base and then dies instantly because respawns in pvp are super fast now. So 3rd team can easily be afk and capture points.
- Again dumb team comps of just tanks and tanks who easily carry.
- Rage quitters and people who write 24/7 and saying "you are all noobs".

On top of that, on this map I had a loss streak of 17 games before I freaking finally got a single win! Even yesterday, I had 9 losses in a row before a single win sigh... No matter if you are top dps in your team and doing objectives when you get that bad RNG that affects your entire team.

On other fun maps, I can get wins very frequently. in About 4-5 games, I'd get 3 wins easily. Had a person yesterday going insane over needing 100 wins on that map.

So I will reinstate my initial view of this map. Besides the size of the map and layout (unequal distance between side objectives and spawns is quite annoying), the biggest problem is the increased node value in the endgame.
If the point of the map & nodes is to encourage the PVP aspect - It's completely inappropriate to effectively increase the weighting of the RNG. They tried to counter it by increasing the rate of spawn of mid nodes, but in my opinion - it's not enough.

In my opinion, it needs to be ONLY B ranks in the endgame, and (ideally) they need to ONLY be in mid.

p.s.
I also think having 2 maps on at the same time is horrible for this map. It effectively splits the queue with most good players just sitting in whatever the other map is, because they are either done with the achievements or just plain hate "Snoreqor"

p.p.s
got my 100 wins now, so i will be queueing it less often also...

Spent a bunch more games in it and in the end it's decent provided you get a team that goes for fights. Big map but the mid nodes' increased spawnrate is nice. Below onsal but more engaging than the others.

The meta is a bit different too. Don't care much that the end of game's nodes is when the game is set as long as I can have fights.

I'll say this map doesn't encourage pvp because people just run back to capture the thousand new nodes that spawned immediately instead of fighting. Yeah, everybody agrees.
But what I see happen regularly is whenever two teams end up fighting more equally over a node, and it lasts actually for a bit like you'd see happen on other maps like Seal Rock or even Onsal, here they're literally shooting each other in the foot because there is so much constant node spawning everywhere that the third team is running around capturing every node while the two are busy contesting one.
This runs completely in opposition to other maps for the very reason that while other maps revolve around territory control to get access and secure nodes, it also primarily relies on team domination and tactical kill points and generating BH. Worqor turns this on its head upside down because BH becomes almost irrelevant in most games. Contesting anything means your team is losing valuable time that could be better spent running all over the map and capture points.

If anything, this map is the epitome of frontline that was designed specifically for players that don't like to pvp, because it directly plays into the way they do play the mode.

It is long past time this map went into regular rotation; it must happen with 7.5. Ideally they would delete it altogether, of course, but at minimum, please stop splitting the queue.

Okay, so after running the new map more in a mad dash to cap the last series from 0 to 25 in 2.5 days (lol been away for a bit), I can say...

I like it. I do. It's as I figured; a lone hunter's haven. An apt replacement post Borderland Ruins redux.

What I don't like about it, per what I'd surmised much, much earlier via my experience that was largely by proxy at that point, is how players typically apply themselves to it. When there's a dorito-marked person directing... things really drag even more. Also, the semi-afk teams. "Normal" collective common sense teams? Kinda rare. Some of that is not really that specific to this map though.

[This turned out to be quite the meander, so spoilering this so that it's not so immediately overwhelming on the eyes]

That said, there's still something off with the way the nodes are. Initially, I was thinking like some others, that "oh the map is too huge and could afford to be squished down a little"; that's not it. It's a reverse Onsal at face value, where center is not as focused as the peripheries, and while that got changed a little, it's still not panning out with that center gathering focus, as that's just not what the map is about. It doesn't need to be anyway. Not everything has to be freakin' Onsal with the turbo padding/feeding contests on some tiny isolated mid platform, but I digress. Therefore, it's not like any other map save for Seal Rock (due to its emphasis on wandering and somewhat asymmetrical design). Making it more like Onsal is not cutting it.

So why is it not turning out mostly like Seal Rock? Why are players not as prone on Seal Rock to beeline back to base or as reluctant to go forth and scout for other nodes? Worqor, to my eyes, is designed to encourage these behaviours too. And yet unfortunately that's a stumbling point, as the playerbase is notoriously bad at splitting into smaller bands and very sensitive to being caught out as anything but a huge shambling mess of combatants. Which I suppose ties in with my increasing levels of dissatisfaction whenever a commander is involved. That tends to ramp it up tenfold. It reminds me of what Guild Wars 2's WvWvW devolved into, and no, I no longer play that game.

What is it then? It must be the capture style, right? Right. Or that's what I believe. While what has been done is cute, it looks to be an error to make them perma claimable. Things only get interesting when in the aforementioned smaller bands, where sometimes you don't have enough bodies to cover all the bases AND fight, depending on jobs too somewhat. That's when that capture style has a little more merit, but when it's a full alliance blob vs. full alliance blob it's often just a matter of who bulldozes better and the claim is over in seconds.

The instinct then is to scurry off (not without significant casualties while doing so because the other guys will politely leave yes yes) and look for new nodes- or... sometimes, which if they do, may still spawn on the opposite side of the map and within meagre /return and stroll distance for an unoccupied team, and it's back to the frequently complained about "afk'ing". This happens on Seal Rock too, but it's alleviated by the ability to revisit and flip nodes. Also, there's no point to go all the way over to where they are, as kills don't make up for the travel time to get at them. Therefore, I think the biggest problem is in that node claim style they've gone with. Considering the prevailing deathball playstyle. It's not wholly the layout of the map's fault.

Then... there's also a not totally trivial snag where many are not aware that it's only one person that needs to be on a spot to claim. If you bring that up however, it's met with the usual spite for pointing out anything happening in a Frontlines match ever. It was a tad foolhardy to expect Cricon-level point tag and swap-in from your average "idgaf" rouletter.

So either the cap style could change, or... introduce a secondary objective to make up for it. The weather effects, while I wouldn't want to see them removed, are not in any way swaying the flow of the process either. Being routine and in sequence certainly doesn't help. There's just something missing to offset the rapidity of capping nodes as a unified swarm and so seldom budging from that strat. The PvP action you devs set out to create has fallen short because of that missing thing, and another victim of overarching player instinct.

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I could put down more thoughts, but this is already going overboard, and with waning reading clarity. So I'll wrap up by saying that while I like the map when I can feasibly split off and do my own thing, I can understand why a majority hates it, and chiefly since they can't bear to leave the safety of the pack. I'm actually bummed I missed out on this map while we could directly queue into it every day. However, yeah it has a few flaws, but so do all the other maps (yes even the beloved Onsal.........)

But I am looking forward to not getting stuck on as many parts of the terrain... maybe? Oh. PLEASE FIX INVISIBLE LBS. They were still there before the patch, and I don't see anything about them being fixed now. Sometimes it really does feel like those involved in the PvP side of things are the unknowing beta testers of the game with how frequently a PvP element ends up transferring into PvE... but although I may often sound harsh in my delivery of opinions... appreciate the map. Much love even. Don't give up introducing new varieties of Frontlines, it really needs it. Maybe one day you'll knock it out of the park. P.S. Bring Astralagos back in 8.0 yes... … ...?

The idea that a map design can split alliances to have smaller skirmishes is wishful thinking, commander or no commander. FL has always been mostly a game of numbers, and you can see a perfect example of why this doesn't work at the opening on Secure for example, where one side (usually right) will get absolutely crushed because people tend to spread clockwise which means usually over 80% of the team goes left and the rest goes right. Even if for some reason you get a 50/50 split, left will still win because the enemy won't have split evenly, and right will still get crushed.

It also happens on maps like Onsal or Seal Rock or even Worqor when one team gets nodes on both sides to go for, while the two others only get those as well, which ends up with that team getting sandwiched, or both of its sides losing against two different teams.

This is why in a nutshell splitting the party is the stupidest tactical move to do, it's just asking to get moped one by one. Moreso, smaller groups like those will always scatter and rout as soon as they're confronted to a bigger blob, and routing is the death of any alliance. That's why worqor is bad, it's trying to emulate pvp behaviors that DO NOT work.

Something I feel about FL in general is IMO the best maps are actually kind of claustrophobic some of the time. I think it's good when terrain puts people into situations where a lot of cleave damage happens. Not the whole thing; just areas that create moments. Onsal has it on port and up ramps, Seal Rock has many areas in the caves, the bridge over NE node, going up ramp near coast, etc. Even if they wanted to try a big map, I wanted more areas like the middle bridges where risk is the cost for expedience or necessity. Even if it's not chokepoints, I like moments where all opponents end up kind of within 25~y of eachother. The outside bumpers are too spacious in an already spacious map. Again, I'd basically keep middle the same, but shrink the map around middle by 40%~ or so.

Seal Rock is the best balance for me. Fights in the caves and fights on the coast have a different character, but everyone has a real sense of threat in both environments.

Worqor is like the lowest interesting one for me. It just frankly reminds me of the flaws of old shatter.

Okay so you got this vertical map, and doing the objectives does not reward your group with battle high, but the devs want us to do it anyway, but also doing objectives doesn't reward with battle high, so while a few are off on their own little adventure to seize one or more nodes, they are also missing out on the moshpits to get battle high. And if the group is too far gone being busy little bees from node to node on the outer edges, they have far less battle high than the second team that was literally fighting the third team most of the time.

Like Worqor is walking on the same problems as old Shatter, minus being able to knock people off ledges to their doom.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

Worqor is like the lowest interesting one for me. It just frankly reminds me of the flaws of old shatter.

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Lol, the old Shatter was the infamous premade graveyard.
You only needed 1 or 2 people constantly taking outposts and suddenly a good chunk of people from the premade alliance would either sit there guarding it forever or chase the harasser off into lala land.
My best run was teaming up with a SAM friend and baiting like 12 people into chasing us, only for it to turn into a staring contest because nobody want to be first that cross the bridge.

And honestly, JP players weren’t exactly fans of Worgor Chirtech either from what I saw in discussions.
Most of them seemed to rate it the lowest, while heavily preferring old Shatter and old Secure.

Played like 7 matches of Worgor Chirtech today, and honestly, it bored the soul out of me.
Yeah, I am doing well on the scoreboard and winning matches, but that doesn’t change the fact that this feels like an even worse version of Onsal Hakair, and I already dislike Onsal to begin with.
They seriously need to add capturable outposts either near the three spawns, similar to old Shatter, or place one in the center to actually force engagements and start fights.

I had one match where I went 6-0 and still had the highest kill count on the scoreboard.
That’s honestly embarrassing for a PvP map.
People are literally just running around in circles.
I have been yawning through most of these matches because barely anything meaningful happens.
And to make it worse, this map is probably going to show up far more often than the others simply because it’s the newest Frontline map.

Two ways they can instantly improve Worqor with very little work.

1) Reduce the amount of node spawns throughout the match by over half. Absolutely no reason there should be 6-8 nodes at a given time.

2) The first half of the match, rank A nodes can only spawn in the middle ring while rank Bs spawn around the outside. Second half of the match, rank S nodes can only spawn in the middle ring, and rank As spawn around the outside.

Actually, one more. 3) Rotate the bridge so each one faces a node in the middle so there are three routes. Two routes on a node is trash map design with a three team game, and is the reason why Shatter is trash too.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

Like Worqor is walking on the same problems as old Shatter, minus being able to knock people off ledges to their doom.

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ill be honest, I wish we the high bridges of old shatter in the new shatter and worqor lol.