Please don't change Viper

Positionals suck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zhirae

Your post made no sense and just screams "ah yes please think I am smart look at the fancy words I can string together with no context or basis". Not to mention you contributed nothing to anything. Good job. You did good. Wow.

---

Exactly. He doesn't understand that the Healer Strike was a situation that happened because passive healers wanted the game simplified for them, got what they asked for, and then regretted it.

Meanwhile, DPS players are upset that the same aforementioned passive players wanted the game dumbed down for them because they wanted to be effort-averse, and that has hurt the game for the past 7 years, starting with Monk. Nobody came and defended the Monk mains then. Now it has spread to every other job, Viper is the last one left, so more people finally took notice and said "enough is enough, leave us alone".

Either he doesn't understand the fundamental difference between a DPS Strike on those grounds, or he's trolling. Either way, I expect no less from a healer main in this game at this point. The most passive of players are also the most toxic and have the least-developed sense of personal accountability or self-reflection. High-effort players tend to be more humbled because they have to work for their performance.

Please leave viper alone, this job has been great, simple to pick up and understand. This job reminds me of HW where the jobs had alot of skill exspression. Please do not change viper

I can agree, Viper has been a blast to play and the positional give depth to the combos. I like it when classes keep me on the move it keeps me engaged. all the moves flow so nicely and the tempo of the attacks is really satisfying I would hate to slow down the feel of Viper. It just feel very unique from the other classes and scratches a particular itch both in style and feel, I also think its fine feel busy as it just fits the aesthetic of the class. All in all In hope they reconsider changing the class.

Same, in the 2 and a half years I have played ff14 which is not a lot considering how long its been out, I have never used the forums till I saw the changes to Viper and wanted to express this exact point. Please reconsider changing Viper.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SteakDriven

Positionals suck.

---

Then don't play melee DPS, Mr. Tank Main. The rest of us think they're quite fine, and it's not like we're coming into the Tank Roles forum to demand positionals be put on Paladin. Leave us melee DPSes be and stop trying to neuter our fun because you'd rather everything be as milquetoast as standing in place and taking a beating instead of moving around and giving one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vetna56

Please leave viper alone, this job has been great, simple to pick up and understand. This job reminds me of HW where the jobs had alot of skill exspression. Please do not change viper

---

Ah, THOSE were the days! 'Member when we adjusted our rotations depending on whether or not we had a WAR and/or a NIN in the party? Those were fun times. Now, everything's so... same-y and boring...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NovaVale

I can agree, Viper has been a blast to play and the positional give depth to the combos. I like it when classes keep me on the move it keeps me engaged. all the moves flow so nicely and the tempo of the attacks is really satisfying I would hate to slow down the feel of Viper. It just feel very unique from the other classes and scratches a particular itch both in style and feel, I also think its fine feel busy as it just fits the aesthetic of the class. All in all In hope they reconsider changing the class.

---

Tempo is a good term! I like that, easier way of saying "rhythm and flow" as I've been doing it. I'm stealing that now :P Still way better than "busy" since that'll just tell the dev team to make fewer moves more spammy with multiple charges, which is the opposite of what we want. That's what they did to Riddle of Earth back in 5.4, and it hasn't ended well since.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NovaVale

Same, in the 2 and a half years I have played ff14 which is not a lot considering how long its been out, I have never used the forums till I saw the changes to Viper and wanted to express this exact point. Please reconsider changing Viper.

---

It's great to see so many passionate new players creating forum accounts for just this very reason.

If you've only been around for two and a half years, it's a shame that you weren't around during Stormblood, which I think was an ideal period for most of the classes in the game before Shadowbringers. A lot of players who like this game don't have context for how different rotations and skills were back then, before the homogenization started. I use MNK as a constant example since it was the one affected hardest starting in SHB and the one that has suffered the most, but it goes for most jobs I think.

Sadly, there's no way for you to experience what the game was like, but Viper does provide a peek into that in a more concise package. Hopefully saying that is enough to trust the notion of how much fun you would've had playing the game back in 2017/2018, and how radically different (and simplified) everything became since then.

I think if more people back Viper, then the next move would be to back the restoration of the other jobs to what they used to be like. That goes for jobs like Summoner (which used to be very different), Dark Knight and other jobs across the other roles (healers as well). Think of all the heaps of fun everyone would be having! There was way more self-expression back then in rotations, too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ValStormbreaker

Then don't play melee DPS, Mr. Tank Main. The rest of us think they're quite fine, and it's not like we're coming into the Tank Roles forum to demand positionals be put on Paladin. Leave us melee DPSes be and stop trying to neuter our fun because you'd rather everything be as milquetoast as standing in place and taking a beating instead of moving around and giving one.

---

I'll play whatever I jolly well please and I ain't budging from right behind the boss unless I need to get out of some mechanics.
If positionals are the only thing making DPS fun for you, then that's your own fault.
Having to move in between weaving skills ruins my rhythm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SteakDriven

I'll play whatever I jolly well please and I ain't budging from right behind the boss unless I need to get out of some mechanics.

---

Then don't do them. They don't affect you anyway. Leave them there for the people who enjoy them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ValStormbreaker

Actually it happened to my job Monk for 3 expansions in a row, and entitled healers complaining back in 2017 were the reason! They were the ones who whined loudest it was too difficult for them, along with other melee DPSes. They were also the ones who whined that they wanted their own DPS kit to be simplified! And then they got what they asked for, and THEN they had a strike to demand they get their DPS kit back, and part of that strike was for DPSes to lose sustainability put into their own kit to compensate for most of you not being able to play at our level!

So after 7 years of healers being entitled, demanding that the game be simplified for THEM, it finally came for all the other DPS jobs to the point where Viper was literally the last interesting melee DPS job left!

And NOW, YOU PEOPLE are coming for it, too! So now, EVERYONE ELSE took notice (a good SEVEN YEARS after MNK mains warned this would happen) because all the people who weren't playing MNK back when you people started all this had the jobs THEY were playing hit by this, too! And they DO NOT want you people to ruin the last thing we have left.

So yes, my point DOES in fact still stand! YOU are the entitled ones demanding changes, WE are just asking to be LEFT ALONE because we know no matter how much you try to bring us down to your level, you're not going to bother playing the job for more than 5 minutes before moving on while the rest of us have our fun spoiled!

If you don't understand the distinction between the Healer Strike (which was a situation of your own making) and THIS situation (which is also a situation of your making, inflicted outside of your role onto others sociopathically) which is us asking for you to leave us alone, then you are a shining example of the problem and the entitlement of healers. If you do not understand it is NOT entitlement to say that none of us asked for this, and we don't want you forcing this on us, then you lose any shred of moral high ground here. Thank you for proving my point for me, about the kinds of entitled players you healers are.

Garlemald should've burned Gridania to the ground long ago.

---

For me, your accusation that healer mains passively accepted the gutting of our role displays your ignorance of the issue. I would recommend visiting the healer forums and looking back over the many, many objections that were made to the simplification of healing. We were standing shoulder to shoulder with the monk mains as canaries in the coal mine.

Also, just for your interest, I don’t want Viper to be changed. I think melee DPS mains deserve a job with complexity, to allow them all the fun that comes from skill expression. And I fully support anyone who says that Monk mains have been treated shoddily since Heavensward. You deserve better from a game that you pay a monthly sub for.

But I cannot take seriously the hypocrisy of someone arguing that healer mains have no right to complain or strike because they are entitled whiners, but that DPS mains with exactly the same complaints are justified and righteous in their anger. I mean, are you for real with that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SteakDriven

I'll play whatever I jolly well please and I ain't budging from right behind the boss unless I need to get out of some mechanics.
If positionals are the only thing making DPS fun for you, then that's your own fault.
Having to move in between weaving skills ruins my rhythm.

---

*sigh* Alright, it's clear you lack a bit of self-awareness, so let me spell this out for you:

You - a tank main - are coming into the DPS forums and telling the melee DPS mains the way they like their role to play is a problem, because you personally - and by your own admission - cannot handle the multitasking of your rotation and the positionals. Ergo, you can't play up to the level of the rest of us, and are telling us that requiring you to do more than your current skill capacity is the problem, so the game should be brought down to your level at the expense of literally everyone else's fun.

For the record, you are coming into a thread of 18 pages filled to the brim of people who clearly do not agree with you. And since you don't main melee DPS, it'd be like if a tourist comes into a foreign country and starts demanding they change their local customs to suit the tourist's tastes, or it's the locals who are a problem. This is the living definition of entitlement behaviour.

Social skills, my good sir. Read the room. You have 15 other options that might be more to your liking, and not everything needs to cater to you. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the fire, it's not for you. The rest of us are fine either with the temp where it is, or want it to be turned up, because your speed is too slow and boring for us. We are not coming into your house and telling you to speed things up, so don't come into our territory and demand that we slow things down for you. Simple as that.

Please DO NOT CHANGE VIPER!!!. Give it at least a patch or 2 before changing this job. The rotation is intuitive and smooth. The gameplay pace and rotation is unique and distinct from the other melee job. Please give it a patch or 2 before consider the change. Thank you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SteakDriven

I'll play whatever I jolly well please and I ain't budging from right behind the boss unless I need to get out of some mechanics.
If positionals are the only thing making DPS fun for you, then that's your own fault.
Having to move in between weaving skills ruins my rhythm.

---

if you wanna be mediocre that's fine but that doesnt mean we have too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamsC

snip

---

Again, you misunderstand the entire issue by virtue of thinking these complaints are exactly the same, but due to some important context you're leaving out, they are not. Since you have trouble understanding this basic concept, I'm going to break it down for you in the following points:

1) The request to simplify healers came from within the healer community itself. It did not come from people who play other roles. DPS players weren't the ones who requested the removal of Cleric Stance, that was all healers.

Healer jobs in this game are regarded by most other players as the most passive of the roles, and that doesn't naturally attract personalities who get their adrenaline rushes from being right up in the boss-monster's face beating it with their fists at high speeds with high-risk, high-reward gameplay.

Melee DPSes aren't the types to demand healers be simplified for them. If anything, we find the role too boring and that makes us incredibly averse to flexing even to fill static needs for Savage raids. Finding competent healers for high-end duty content is slim pickings because it's the lowest-population role with the highest rate of passive players.

Am I saying that healers as a whole unanimously wanted this? Of course not! I know many healers who disagreed with the simplification. That does not change the fact that it was a problem born out of your community; it wasn't us trying to come in and demand healers be made easier so we could have a more accessible barrier for entry.

2) In order for the situation to be the same as you described, and for me to be a hypocrite, then this situation would have to have been at the behest of melee DPSes who asked for the jobs to be simplified. It was not.

Again, the role does not naturally attract passive players due to the aggressive, high-risk/high-reward nature of its gameplay, especially with regard to high speed, high-APM jobs. Does this mean passive DPS players don't exist? Of course not, but the population distribution is significantly lower, less vocal and far less behaviourally entitled than healers tend to be on average. I've dealt with passive players of all roles as a static leader, and healers were always the #1 source of behavioural entitlement by a very, very wide margin, and always to the worst degrees.

So who was responsible? Healer mains, who were complaining that melee DPSes had too high a barrier for entry and that the job needed to be simplified to make it more accessible to them. I know this to be fact because I was right here on the forums in 2019 and it was all WHM and SCH mains demanding our role be simplified in the name of giving them a barrier for entry. AST mains I at least had some respect for since most of the ones I knew thought this was stupid.

3) There's a difference between striking due to a problem of your own community's creation, and pre-emptively and defensively striking due to an external force imposing their will onto your community. Those are not the same. There's a clear distinction between crying over the consequences of your own actions, and complaining about an external colonizing force trying to impose its will onto others. This was the crux of my argument you conveniently ignore.

This is why, if you have to simplify the situation down to "we're striking over the simplification of our roles, therefore it's hypocritical of you to say it's entitled when we do it but not when you do it," you're effectively missing the forest for the trees. Healer simplification is a problem of the healer community's own making. The DPS simplification? We didn't do this to ourselves. This was forced on us by demands from the outside. That's an important distinction.

4) What's entitled about the healer strike is the lack of self-accountability about it. It blames the devs for the direction they took it in, but not the players within your community who asked for it. Conversely, DPS mains have overwhelming solidarity, and we do hold our own accountable, this thread being a great example.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AngaratoSvartberg

if you wanna be mediocre that's fine but that doesnt mean we have too.

---

I could kiss you for this comment, but you're on an different data center :P

SteakDriven's post highlights my point to JamsC. He is a tank main coming in to a melee DPS role forum and telling us that our role is a problem because he finds it difficult to multitask mechanics. It "ruins [his] rhythm,". Us being able to handle it is "[our] own fault. So we're the problem for actually being able to play more competently than he can, the implication being that our fun should be neutered to bring things down to his lower skill level.

This is not something any of the melee DPS mains are saying. It's all coming from passive players on the outside, historically coming from WHM and SCH players, but always from lower-APM job mains who think taking a step to the left, doing a few moves, then taking a step to the right and doing a few moves, is somehow too much for their comfort.

Entitlement is when you act as though you are deserving of special treatment or privileges, i.e. coming into someone else's house and demanding they do things your way. This is why the Healer Strike was entitled; it pushed blame on the devs for the design philosophy they adopted with the healers, but neglected the part where it was at the healers' request (even if not everyone shared those opinions). Melee DPS mains by and large did NOT ask for this, and are wholly opposed to it, but we do hold one another accountable, as I have already done by addressing the remarks of Mr. Happy calling for more downtime in Viper's rotation which is incredibly stupid and no one here in this thread seems to support that sentiment (if anything, it's the opposite). I have also addressed the damage Happy and Drak have caused to MNK. I'm not pretending there aren't problem people within DPS circles, but we at least acknowledge and deal with our own, instead of shirking accountability and blaming external sources. Players are the ones who asked for Cleric Stance to be removed, not the devs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SteakDriven

Positionals suck.

---

Crazy how FFXIV's encounter design is almost entirely designed around moving around and positioning to do mechanics yet people think moving two inches back and forth along the boss target circle is too much to ask or doesn't fit the design.

Adding another voice to say that Viper is completely fine gameplay-wise.

Adding to the DONT change viper club.

Seriously it's already easy enough, I was looking up guides because its so simple I thought I was missing something.I was not.
The xpac JUST dropped, so dont change a class based on the kneejerk reaction of players that cant be bothered to hit a target dummy for 10 seconds.
Its simple and fast, thats a recipe for fun. Dont nerf the fun. Dont be blizzard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ValStormbreaker

You - a tank main - are coming into the DPS forums and telling the melee DPS mains the way they like their role to play is a problem, because you personally - and by your own admission - cannot handle the multitasking of your rotation and the positionals. Ergo, you can't play up to the level of the rest of us, and are telling us that requiring you to do more than your current skill capacity is the problem, so the game should be brought down to your level at the expense of literally everyone else's fun.

---

Petition to add positionals to tanking jobs... just to mess with the person you're replying to.

Also agree with original post. Viper is great. Leave it alone.

..... we don't even know what changes are being made, and for them to say they can do it within the next 4 patches means its so small it will likely not amount to a huge difference in play style, at most what I could see them do is make it so depending on the position you are closest to flank or hindquarters, they'll make the button that lights up at the end of the combo match that positional, again if the combo can choose between flank or hind, then it lighting up on the one you're currently facing the position of would be the easiest solution to everyone's problem, or maybe I'm oversimplifying it, when I do play viper I tend to do whatever I feel like doing if I picked the wrong combo (nearly impossible since you either pick the combo that leads to the positional strikes or you don't) I two can understand both sides of the argument. Did everyone notice that the two sword gauge points in the direct of the button you need to press next in the combo if you have the two main starter buttons on the corresponding left and right keys/buttons? I play on a controller while on PC so that was a nice touch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Selvokaz

..... we don't even know what changes are being made, and for them to say they can do it within the next 4 patches means its so small it will likely not amount to a huge difference in play style

---

they said some of the changes will be on the 7.01 patch and additional changes in the 7.05 patch which means they're intentionally trying to adjust the job before savage drops. Perhaps you misread the announcement as coming between the 7.1 and 7.5 patches?

This said, I can't imagine any justification they can use to make the changes we can't point to another job and ask if this job can have it why can't viper? If Dreadwinder is the problem, then why isn't Gluttony a problem? If the positionals on the core rotation are the problem, then why aren't they a problem on every other melee job?

VPR is a very well constructed class, proof that SE can still make great class designs with ease of entry but a high level of skill mastery. I, too, hope they don't change the class. The whole identity is fast pace, if people don't like that they do not have to play it. Further, they don't have to be good at it if they do like it but don't like how it plays.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ValStormbreaker

As I previously mentioned, I'm also a disabled player with nerve damage issues in my right hand, and I also can ONLY play with a controller. Even then, I gravitate toward the high-APM jobs and love fighting games. I wouldn't ever ask for any game to dumb things down on my account.

I'll tell you exactly where the "simplification" arguments come from, and it's two places primarily:

1) The W-Cross Hotbar is NOT the default as it should be, and the game never tells you it exists. It's hidden in the settings. So, rather than controller and players having immediate access to a full 32 skills without needing to hotbar swap, they feel overwhelmed by the restrictions of the default 16 icons for their controller layout, and don't know there's a superior alternative. This is also something that encourages automation, to work around the inconvenience of not having full access to skills easily playing on controller.

2) Passive, effort-averse players who use people like us as a shield for wanting the game to be more of a cakewalk for them. "What if a player is disabled?" They try to pander to us while treating us like we're inferior so the game needs to be "brought down to our level,". I'm disabled and I can outperform these jokers even on a bad day. They need to stop using us as an excuse, it's insulting.

---

I can't even use the W-Cross Hotbar (it doesn't work in Toggle mode), but I don't have any trouble. I have two combat bars I toggle between using R1:

The first/default bar is typically for single target attacks
The second bar is for AoE attacks

If I need access to something else, I put it on bar 3, which I can access by quickly pressing L2->R2 or R2->L2 (I put situational things here because keeping the triggers squeezed is taxing for me (hence Toggle mode)).

That said, I agree with your larger point - FF14 has a TON of options buried within the settings. It's one of the most accessible games I've ever played. But, getting it to where it feels good (say it with me) takes effort by the player. What really needs to be addressed is how the options are organized and described, and how tooltips are written. Positional requirements, for example, shouldn't be buried within a mound of text. They should be front and center with recast times and the like.

And to reiterate your second point, accessibility shouldn't be used as the excuse for simplifying jobs. I've played since ARR. I played Dark Arts spam DRK. I played Cleric Stance WHM. I loved the rhythm of my Kaiten button presses with SAM. I love how VPR - because of its positionals - feels more like an actual dancer than DNC. Don't use players like us as an excuse to trivialize how jobs play. We're not asking for these changes.

Yes pls don't change VPR it the most fun i've had in the melee role as a tank/phys range player

Viper, AST and DNC are my favorite jobs. Well AST used to be until the change. These classes felt right from the beginning for me. This is the second job that will change that I love the way it is if this changes. I loved AST the way it was and I love viper the way it is. Some jobs are just not meant for everyone and some people don't like change. That isn't a reason to change these jobs. They aren't/weren't impossible to learn and some learn it easier than others. There is no reason to change them. If they were broken, sure, change them but they aren't. Please keep this in mind.

Go against those who want easy classes to just whip through like all the others. Just this once. Ya can't please everyone. This time please make the "no changes" people happier and not change things.

Each job has something special about them. Why should these be any different? I don't even play AST as much because of the changes. its boring now.

I hope it doesn't change. i wish people would accept the jobs the way they are or play a different job. That is why we have so many jobs available. I am heart broken that these changes keep happening.

Adding another voice, please do not change viper, or at least wait more time to have consistent feeback.

The feel of quickness and busyness (which in my opinion is just a "feel" as it is actually not that quick) is what makes the job feel great, fun and have an identity.

If you start to target what you call "busyness" in viper, it will just be another reaper, which is a job that already exists and people which do not like viper can play. I thought that a selling point of this game, was the different playable jobs, but maybe it is just turning out to be a false advertisement at this point.

It is baffling to see the development team nailling fun, easy and still fresh (to some degree) new jobs, just to threaten to destroy their identity in less than a week of launch time.

I also don't know who asked for these changes, it's delusional. Jobs been out for less than a month and players already want sweeping changes. Like just stop.....we have two very vocal minority at play here. One is the "please dont make us have positions to do and can you make the job easy for us?"
The second "jobs are to easy now that they have pvp like abilities, I want button bloat!"
Can people just give it time to breath and let viper be it's own thing? No of course not what am I saying. Let's be brutally honest here, just because you can play every job on one character does not mean you have to or even should. If the job that's new ends up being something you don't like? Then don't play it. Simple right?

Who are they even listening to? Here's my vote: Do not change the class to make it easier. It's already easy enough.

Apparently they want to change it because the Japanese community complaints its too fast, when its on par with samurai and monk. This decision makes no sence especially when vocal majority is screaming at you to leave it alone.

Its actually kinda funny that when Japanese community does not like something, its gets changed in next minor patch, but anybody else has to scream at them for years to fix obvious glaring issues like old living dead or how they have been homogenazing everything since stormblood, to the point where endwalker was putting people to sleep.

1. Don't change viper. Part of it's identity as it's name is "Viper" aka a snake. By removing some of our positionals, You're removing part of it's identity. I'm not one who has ever loved positionals, But on Viper it feels REALLY good and well done. It's fun.
2. I think as many people have stated it is just WAY to early to Judge it to be changed. We should at least get Savage Tier 1 to play and experience to see what needs to be changed. At the time of writting this, Early access players have only had 8 days, and official launch was only 4 days ago. It's not enough time to be done properly.
3. If we are gonna make a push to be more complex and more identity, How are we going to get there, if we are always homogenizing everything? At most Pictomancer and Viper should be the ones to stand out because of that future change, Not forced into the same box with the rest that already get feedback to change em to more complex and identity. I think by changing it, You're only letting the issue that is outcried so loudly, to continue to rise and we're begging you not to.
Finally, You can find various of your Media Tour people all speaking roughly the same, that it is way too early, and does not need this change.
I don't know where the opinion came from, but for the sake of me and many others. Do not do this. Not every job is meant to be for everyone and that has to be okay, Otherwise we will repeat over and over.
I love this game, i love being here, i love viper and Please if you are out there listening, Please listen to us. Check feedback deeper than surface level, Not the ones who immediately gripe over something minute one.
We're all here, We're all loving this class as it is, and people i have witnessed around me in game, Have adapted easily to it and love it.
Please, Yoshi-P.
Listen to us, make the better choice and put your foot down. We're all begging you.

*Translated, may be rough*

1. バイパーを変更しないでください。その名前の正体の一部は「バイパー」、別名ヘビです。位置指定の一部を削除すると、そのアイデンティティの一部が削除されます。私はポジショナルがあまり好きではありませんでしたが、Viper では本当に良くできていると感じます。楽しいですね。
2. 多くの人が述べているように、変更すべきと判断するのは時期尚早だと思います。少なくともSavage Tier 1をプレイして体験してもらい、何を変更する必要があるかを確認する必要があります。これを書いている時点では、早期アクセス プレイヤーは 8 日間しかプレイできず、正式なローンチはわずか 4 日前です。きちんとやるには時間が足りない。
3. より複雑でよりアイデンティティを追求する場合、常にすべてを均質化している場合、どうやってそこに到達するのでしょうか?将来の変更によって目立つのはせいぜいピクトマンサーとバイパーであるべきであり、より複雑でアイデンティティを変えるためにすでにフィードバックを得ている残りの部分と同じボックスに強制されるべきではありません。それを変えることは、大声で叫ばれている問題をそのまま放置しているだけであり、私たちはそうしないようにお願いしているのだと思います。
最後に、メディア ツアーのさまざまな人々がほぼ同じことを言っていることがわかります。時期尚早であり、この変更は必要ありません。
その意見がどこから来たのかは知りませんが、私と他の多くの人たちのために。こんなことしないで。すべての仕事がすべての人に適しているわけではありませんし、それが問題ではないはずです。そうでないと、何度も同じことを繰り返すことになります。
私はこのゲームが大好きです、ここにいるのが大好きです、バイパーが大好きです、そしてもしそこにいて聞いているなら、私たちの話を聞いてください。些細なことですぐに不平を言う人ではなく、表面的なレベルよりも深いフィードバックを確認してください。
私たちは皆ここにいます、私たちは皆このクラスをそのまま愛しています、そして私がゲームで私の周りで目撃した人々は、このクラスに簡単に適応し、それを愛しています。
ヨシPさん、お願いします。
私たちの話を聞いて、より良い選択をし、しっかりと腰を据えてください。私たちは皆、あなたにお願いしています。

Adding my voice in support of leaving Viper alone! The job is fine how it is. The fast pace of the combos and the positionals keep it engaging and differentiate it from the rest of the melee dps. Playing Viper is the most fun I've had playing a dps job in years, please don't change it.

Been playing viper non stop since expansion started, the job is perfect as is, the speed, the positionals, everything is fine. If people don't like the job, or are confused on how it works then it's just not a job for them. Not every player is going to like every job.

I don’t understand how it’s at all possible the job needs to be made easier. I think it’s quite fun as is and once I figured out the buttons I was golden. Doesn’t need any changes to be made “less busy”.

Adding my voice after so much time out of the forums.

Please do not change Viper. Do not remove positionals or how the combo work. It's been such a fresh job after all these years, don't kill everyone's enthousiasm because of a very tiny but yet very vocal minority.

The vast majority of players think it's fine as it is, do not dumb it down, listen to us!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jebatus

Its actually kinda funny that when Japanese community does not like something, its gets changed in next minor patch, but anybody else has to scream at them for years to fix obvious glaring issues like old living dead or how they have been homogenazing everything since stormblood, to the point where endwalker was putting people to sleep.

---

the devs are japanese, so that's not much of a surprise. how many 'murican devs design their games based on japanese feedback?

there's also the fact that, while people in the west will loudly complain about things, they'll keep playing the game for decades before getting too fed up. correct me if i'm wrong but eastern audiences are a lot more willing to quit when they're unhappy with something - i'm aware of quite a few examples from TCGs to gacha games and even celebrities can lose their whole career if people find out they smoke or have a boyfriend

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melethron123

the devs are japanese, so that's not much of a surprise. how many 'murican devs design their games based on japanese feedback?

there's also the fact that, while people in the west will loudly complain about things, they'll keep playing the game for decades before getting too fed up. correct me if i'm wrong but eastern audiences are a lot more willing to quit when they're unhappy with something - i'm aware of quite a few examples from TCGs to gacha games and even celebrities can lose their whole career if people find out they smoke or have a boyfriend

---

You misunderstand. For many people, even though we have been putting up with it for a long time, this IS what is making a lot of us willing to quit because we are unhappy. I have been watching jobs ebb and flow for a long time and have mostly been able to tolerate it, but the homogenization of a job that has been out for single digit days is the last straw for me personally. It will be up to people to put their money where their mouth is if the changes do go through, but most of us are of course fighting in hopes that these changes don't happen to begin with.

I do not currently play it but have a very good friend who does and they love it just as it is. They loved Monk before it got it's changes to take away what made it complex and interesting to them. This has given that back and they are having so much fun. I look forward to the challenge of more than 2 positionals when I dive in and learn it for myself.

Please do not change viper. It's too soon to be making a change like this. The game has been out for official release less than a week.

Viper has rekindled my interest in the game and makes me want to try/do content again like I really hope they don't change it, bare minimal maybe duration buffs/noxious gnash is like slightly longer but that's it nothing else.

The basic "1-2-3" combos are easy to understand because the finisher is named and color coded for positionals while glowing. The hunter and swift coil combos from dreadwinder are slow(er) gcds which allow time to press ogcds and align for next positional I really don't get how its too busy.