you know what grinds my gears?

I run a social LS. Yes, it does have an application process. It's to screen out the people outside our focused timezones and obvious douchebags who can't put any effort into introducing themselves favorably. It's also to save my and others' time. If you have ever tried "just asking in game about the stuff" you'd know you can only do this one person at a time, and it takes TIME, time you could spend playing the game. I tried doing this at first but quickly gave up after spending 2 hours talking to just a handful of people, and being unable to focus on anything else while doing that. So, call me an elitist bastard because I don't do slave work to get to know every new member one-on-one. Instead I have the application with the same questions I'd ask, people can leave their answers, and I'll take a look at them when I'm not in the middle of hamlet/raid/primal battle.

the problems i seem to keep finding is the lack of people willing to explain anything, or help someone else...if it doesn't benefit the helper.

for instance, i'm trying my best to get in a Hamlet Defense party, so far i've been in 10 hamlet oriented party's, ive been in zero hamlet battles. the sad part about all of it is everything in this game is easy, once you know how to approach the battle. the next time i get in a hamlet defense party, i'm just going to lie and say yep I've been there done that. the truth doesn't seem to work. the help issue is another common problem, once someone has run the content dry they just don't want to do it anymore. those same people turn right around bitch that there's nothing to do...funny that.

and yes most of all the elitism in this game reeks like a pasture of dead cows, unfortunately I've been in that pasture so long the smell no longer bothers me. As long as there are two left people alive one will always regard themselves as better than the other.

@Valmonte - there is also the other side of the coin.

There are countless online resources in forms of videos and guides for pretty much every end game content in the game. Some people fail to realise that someone had to figure out these "ideal" strategies in the first place via trial and error. In addition, the people that are experienced with these events had to also learn how it works, in order for their linkshell to progress. If you are not willing to learn on your own account, what makes people believe that you are willing to learn via being told what to do in-game.

There are not enough people who are willing to think outside the box or research known strategies on their own account, and expect those who do spend the time learning about end game events to feed them all the information on a silver plate.

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Originally Posted by Altena

@Valmonte - there is also the other side of the coin.

There are countless online resources in forms of videos and guides for pretty much every end game content in the game. Some people fail to realise that someone had to figure out these "ideal" strategies in the first place via trial and error. In addition, the people that are experienced with these events had to also learn how it works, in order for their linkshell to progress. If you are not willing to learn on your own account, what makes people believe that you are willing to learn via being told what to do in-game.

There are not enough people who are willing to think outside the box or research known strategies on their own account, and expect those who do spend the time learning about end game events to feed them all the information on a silver plate.

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And how does one learn the said content if there not even given the chance to participate, always being pushed out by those who do know what to do and what strategy to use? i could write strategy's and record videos if i had the time and man power to test said strategy's alas I've neither. I've been in many endgame LS's and the first rule is always listen to the Party leader, the issue here is these so called leaders have got nothing to say and expect you to know what to do, if you don't your pushed aside ousted out of content. it's aggravating, but i've been around it for along while so it no longer bothers me.

Make your own linkshell / PUG groups. The end.

Its slightly harder to pug a group when they find out you don't have a job at past level 30...I've been playing for over a year an i haven't even touched a single ounce of the multiplayer content only because the alotted time i have just to find a pug group never works out well let alone the content is even still being played since most the event areas look like ghost towns, let alone the time find a linkshell. :s

Considering people whore out linkshells in this game like victorian era hookers, I would say that OP couldn't have it more wrong. The "one linkshell rule" was a lot more common in FFXI and I would say that the general playerbase is a lot more liberal with the amount of linkshells that they posses in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Altena

Make your own linkshell / PUG groups. The end.

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the community extends beyond a linkshell, but i'll bite. lets say i did create my own Linkshell(which might be taken the wrong way considering i'm an admin for the Relentless LS) Who would i invite/recruit? that flood of new players who want for excitement in this soon to be awesome game? Gungir is all dried up, the fish have all been caught and placed behind there respective shield and name.

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Originally Posted by Grimwald

Considering people whore out linkshells in this game like victorian era hookers, I would say that OP couldn't have it more wrong. The "one linkshell rule" was a lot more common in FFXI and I would say that the general playerbase is a lot more liberal with the amount of linkshells that they posses in FFXIV.

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not for endgame LS's there very touchy about a player having more than one, and for good reasons.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

not for endgame LS's there very touchy about a player having more than one, and for good reasons.

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Mine doesn't and never has, the majority of our players just choose to make it their sole LS.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

My ls is wonderful and pretty much accepts anyone as long as they ask. Sometimes even if they don't :p

EDIT: crippled christ almighty after actually reading some of the posts on here I feel very sick to my stomache ><. drops by seniority? experianced onry? wtf kind of elitism is that bull. I wouldn't want to play with people like that even if it was the only way to progress. Straight up douche bull is what it is :/

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Yeah, the people who want their drops over the newb that's never done the runs before and is tagging along learning, they are the douches. The people that have trained multiple groups of people and geared them out only to have them stop running once they get what they want, they are the douches.

Please read the previous with heavy sarcasm.

IMO the douche is the new guy that demands same lot rights when they are just starting. The douche is the guy that cries elitist when they aren't allowed to lot on that less than 1% drop, even though they have been told everything else is fair game.

That's not elitism, u r idiot. That is people that value their fellow LS members time and dedication and feel they should be rewarded accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

the problems i seem to keep finding is the lack of people willing to explain anything, or help someone else...if it doesn't benefit the helper.

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Not to be an ass, but if your having trouble with strategy, you need to read the forums. There is a glut of information about every aspect of this game right here on the lodestone. That's not to mention LS specific strategies that you might find on your LSes website. Unless you're on voice chat nobody has time to explain the intricacies of a particular fight right before entering battle.

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Originally Posted by Grimwald

Considering people whore out linkshells in this game like victorian era hookers, I would say that OP couldn't have it more wrong. The "one linkshell rule" was a lot more common in FFXI and I would say that the general playerbase is a lot more liberal with the amount of linkshells that they posses in FFXIV.

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I just wanted to point out that in XI it wasn't a rule that you could have only one, you could have only one linkshell by design.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Not to be an ass, but if your having trouble with strategy, you need to read the forums. There is a glut of information about every aspect of this game right here on the lodestone. That's not to mention LS specific strategies that you might find on your LSes website. Unless you're on voice chat nobody has time to explain the intricacies of a particular fight right before entering battle.

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I try to explain what I can before and during the fight. I understand that most folks don't go on the forums and it's tiring sometimes to have to explain over and over again. If I don't feel like it, I'll see if someone else in the party wants to explain. Most party members won't tolerate going to through wipe after wipe. If someone doesn't get it after two tries, I'll gently suggest that they get more practice and find a rep.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

the community extends beyond a linkshell, but i'll bite. lets say i did create my own Linkshell(which might be taken the wrong way considering i'm an admin for the Relentless LS) Who would i invite/recruit? that flood of new players who want for excitement in this soon to be awesome game? Gungir is all dried up, the fish have all been caught and placed behind there respective shield and name.

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Lemme get this straight:

In your prior 2 posts you basically say: "Once people find out I have no experience in a certain battle, they don't want to help me."

and then in this post you more or less come off as "I don't wish to play with noobs"

To your first point, wanting hamlet training: I'm sure you have a friend or someone in game who IS grinding them atm. Ask them if you can join them sometime. In the meantime, DO read up on the common strats for hamlet. While typically, you can 'just follow the party leader' Hamlet doesn't quite work like that. The party leader might not be able to even see the battle at some points depending on their role in the party (i.e. tank). Also, there are still PLENTY of people in the game just looking to start hamlets....you COULD start a Hamlet static/ls for that sole purpose...I highly doubt that would be anything that would tick your primary ls off...esp since it seems they aren't doing Hamlets atm.

But you can't argue 'people are elitist in this game' and then look down your nose at new players...

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I just wanted to point out that in XI it wasn't a rule that you could have only one, you could have only one linkshell by design.

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Almost. You could only have one LS active. You could have as many LS's as your inventory would hold, but you'd only be able to ever see what was going on in the one you had currently equipped.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I try to explain what I can before and during the fight. I understand that most folks don't go on the forums and it's tiring sometimes to have to explain over and over again. If I don't feel like it, I'll see if someone else in the party wants to explain. Most party members won't tolerate going to through wipe after wipe. If someone doesn't get it after two tries, I'll gently suggest that they get more practice and find a rep.

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I have no problems what-so-ever explaining a fight on voice chat, since that usually takes 5 to 10 mins. But to type the same thing out in pt chat can take 3 to 4 times as long. In my LS we stress mumble usage for end-game. Unless we absolutely know 100% that the person knows every detail of our strat inside and out they must get on mumble for end-game events. Then there is the occasional fight where the other 7 members can carry literally anyone through the fight, in which case a brief explanation in pt chat will suffice.

Wow 10 minutes! That certainly is a hassle.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Wow 10 minutes! That certainly is a hassle.

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That's 15 to 40 mins in pt chat. 5 - 10 on voice chat. But it's really a non-issue since if folks who don't know the fight, or don't know our strategy, refuse to get on voice chat for end-game content, they aren't coming with us. We've found that one party member not being on mumble could determine the outcome of the fight. Besides, it's a hell of a lot more fun joking with folks in real time on mumble than it is typing everything out.

Different groups do things differently, but that's how Abaddon roles. No mumble, no end-game. In the end, we learn a lot more about each other through the idle chatter that happens along the way and form better bonds in addition to learning more quickly that way. It's a win win scenario really.

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Originally Posted by Destain

Yeah, the people who want their drops over the newb that's never done the runs before and is tagging along learning, they are the douches. The people that have trained multiple groups of people and geared them out only to have them stop running once they get what they want, they are the douches.

Please read the previous with heavy sarcasm.

IMO the douche is the new guy that demands same lot rights when they are just starting. The douche is the guy that cries elitist when they aren't allowed to lot on that less than 1% drop, even though they have been told everything else is fair game.

That's not elitism, u r idiot. That is people that value their fellow LS members time and dedication and feel they should be rewarded accordingly.

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'u r idiot' Well i guess that speaks for itself right there. If I get a drop and there is someone else with the class to use it that I haven't leveled, of course i'm going to cede it to them. But if some douche leader says "thats mine u r noob" I would instant drop pt, ls, blacklist :/ I can't believe I actually read this on here. My experience with my ls is great, if it drops in your loot list its yours, the rng chose you, and no amount of some asshats douchery can change that. (Why are you trying to ruin my idea of how awesome the ff14 community is? I generally haven't seen much of this stupidity in game... guess it [I]is[I] a forum but still... its the forum for 14 :/)

Yep, if it drops to you it yours unless you don't want it or already have one. It really is that simple. Honestly, I don't care if the person who gets an item has the class levelled or not. More than likely that person will have to level the class the item is for eventually. This game's design pretty much forces that from players. Anyone who isn't just a weekend warrior in this game has every class leveled out of necessity.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Yep, if it drops to you it yours unless you don't want it or already have one. It really is that simple. Honestly, I don't care if the person who gets an item has the class levelled or not. More than likely that person will have to level the class the item is for eventually. This game's design pretty much forces that from players. Anyone who isn't just a weekend warrior in this game has every class leveled out of necessity.

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THANK YOU. gg i think my stomache was about to bleed if I read anymore of that other crap... ><

In the case of who gets a drop, you really can't have a system that's more fair than the RNG. You all have an equal chance of getting the drop. Outside of an established LS points system, anything else is subjective and unfair.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

In the case of who gets a drop, you really can't have a system that's more fair than the RNG. You all have an equal chance of getting the drop. Outside of an established LS points system, anything else is subjective and unfair.

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Yeah i don't see how some people say they should get the drops over the people who get it in their loot list just because they've 'done it so much'. RNG is there for a reason, maybe it can sense DBs and thats why they don't already have what they want? idk.... no offense to people who haven't gotten cool stuff yet :p

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I have no problems what-so-ever explaining a fight on voice chat, since that usually takes 5 to 10 mins. But to type the same thing out in pt chat can take 3 to 4 times as long. .

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Use a macro. Type it once and you're golden.
OR, if you're using windowed mode, write an essay on it in a NotePad and copy & paste it in.

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Originally Posted by tymora

Use a macro. Type it once and you're golden.
OR, if you're using windowed mode, write an essay on it in a NotePad and copy & paste it in.

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I prefer mumble because if we need to make a change on the fly, I'm sure as hell not typing it out in the heat of battle.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

Lemme get this straight:

In your prior 2 posts you basically say: "Once people find out I have no experience in a certain battle, they don't want to help me."

and then in this post you more or less come off as "I don't wish to play with noobs"

To your first point, wanting hamlet training: I'm sure you have a friend or someone in game who IS grinding them atm. Ask them if you can join them sometime. In the meantime, DO read up on the common strats for hamlet. While typically, you can 'just follow the party leader' Hamlet doesn't quite work like that. The party leader might not be able to even see the battle at some points depending on their role in the party (i.e. tank). Also, there are still PLENTY of people in the game just looking to start hamlets....you COULD start a Hamlet static/ls for that sole purpose...I highly doubt that would be anything that would tick your primary ls off...esp since it seems they aren't doing Hamlets atm.

But you can't argue 'people are elitist in this game' and then look down your nose at new players...

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where did i say i don't wish to play with new people? im saying there are no new people to be had. the effects of people expecting others to know every last detail, or people just using your LS or You to get what they want then move on is a very serious issue. its not a me/you thing its an issue with the community as a whole.

I see nothing wrong with a situation where there are three people, two of them able to use the item and thus allowed to roll, one of them unable to use the item and thus not allowed to roll. It is really common sense in my opinion that if you roll on something, you damn well better be able to use it.

Coupled with the above, as far as the implied statement, "Well it would have been a bigger upgrade for me" goes (which is a derp if you don't have the class leveled, of course it would have been a bigger upgrade). It really doesn't hold much water, why should people who spend time and money on their gear get less priority, especially when the third person doesn't even have the ability to use the item?

I don't know Reiko well, my association with him has been minimal but this thread stinks of loot envy whether it is intentional or not.
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Not to be an ass, but if your having trouble with strategy, you need to read the forums. There is a glut of information about every aspect of this game right here on the lodestone. That's not to mention LS specific strategies that you might find on your LSes website. Unless you're on voice chat nobody has time to explain the intricacies of a particular fight right before entering battle.

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Ive watched the vids and read strategy's for all the hamlets, but that's not good enough for folks they only want you if you've been and won. there in is the issue i can't go, because i've never been.

or to put it to you away my buddy did "I'm tired of being Cock Blocked by a bunch of Circle Jerk Fairies, who woke one morning and suddenly knew exactly what to do."

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

Ive watched the vids and read strategy's for all the hamlets, but that's not good enough for folks they only want you if you've been and won. there in is the issue i can't go, because i've never been.

or to put it to you away my buddy did "I'm tired of being Cock Blocked by a bunch of Circle Jerk Fairies, who woke one morning and suddenly knew exactly what to do."

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I'm sorry that's been your experience, but it hasn't been mine. Every time I'm new to something and go with a pickup group (which to be honest, doesn't happen often) I make it clear that I haven't won before. The group has always been understanding and offers advice where needed. Are you answering shouts that are asking for experienced players only? If that's the case, perhaps send the pt leader a /tell and ask him/her if they get 7 experienced players if they'd mind teaching one inexperienced one. If they fail at that point, the inexperienced player can't be the only one at fault, especially if they're not the tank.

For hamlet, it's been my experience that if most of the people in the pt have won before it only takes a run or two at most to get the full 60k +. The truth is, the strategy for hamlet is the same at all of the locations, the only difference being where the NM gets kited. Also for tanking PLD is better in LL, go WAR in the other two spots.

To be fair though Molly, Gungnir and Durandal are the more elitist servers so it is pretty server specific with how people treat that.

"Anyone want to do Moogle? Experienced players only!" < That's pretty common. How does one gain experience if they're not allowed to go? Even in linkshells both social and end-game they still prefer only experienced players so if you happen to be new to the game or never gotten to do the fight yet, you're out of luck.

"Build your own party."

Who will join a new player? Very few of the established community.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

To be fair though Molly, Gungnir and Durandal are the more elitist servers so it is pretty server specific with how people treat that.

"Anyone want to do Moogle? Experienced players only!" < That's pretty common. How does one gain experience if they're not allowed to go? Even in linkshells both social and end-game they still prefer only experienced players so if you happen to be new to the game or never gotten to do the fight yet, you're out of luck.

"Build your own party."

Who will join a new player? Very few of the established community.

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ha! In that case don't tell them you're new at it and just go, the second run you'd be experienced, no?. Barring that, surely there has to be at least a few linkshells open to new players. If not, you could always reroll on Balmung.

Well I'm on Durandal and I join random shouts quite often and sometimes I'm the noob and sometimes someone else is. In my experience if its a shout party/PUG people realize you get what you get. However I am very clear with the group if I know the content or not and I would expect others to do the same.

Also, it helps a lot to know the true goal of the party, are we doing just AF or going for a full clear? Are we attempting a speedrun? Are we using a public strategy and recommended job setup or are we trying something different. These things should be figured out before you even leave town. How drops will be handled should be discussed too.

Honestly I believe good communication beforehand can eliminate 90% of the drama that tends to happen.

Hey, in all fairness I bring new people to moogle/ifrit because I know my group can carry them whether they are bad or not. Then they will have experience.

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Originally Posted by Pyretta_Blaze

Honestly I believe good communication beforehand can eliminate 90% of the drama that tends to happen.

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I couldn't agree more. However, if that really is the viewpoint of those servers as a whole, first let me say I'm glad I'm on Balmung. But secondly the server as a whole is shooting itself in the foot. I quit WoW after less than 90 days because of crap like that. Icecrown (unbeknownst to me at the time) was notorious for that kind of behavior. Asshole players will make for a worse experience in game than any amount of broken game mechanics ever will.

I suppose I'm lucky I got into an LS where people helped me understand things, sure it required a bit of effort on my part but when I came into this LS I was a pretty fresh to the mechanics of FFXIV. It is coincidentally the same LS the OP is complaining about, which is another reason why I can't take it too seriously.

In regards to those who have had trouble getting experience, that is unfortunate. Keep trying and I'm sure you'll get there eventually. :(

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I couldn't agree more. However, if that really is the viewpoint of those servers as a whole, first let me say I'm glad I'm on Balmung. But secondly the server as a whole is shooting itself in the foot. I quit WoW after less than 90 days because of crap like that. Icecrown (unbeknownst to me at the time) was notorious for that kind of behavior. Asshole players will make for a worse experience in game than any amount of broken game mechanics ever will.

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Yeah it's the general community, not all is bad but you can really tell the difference by playing on multiple servers.

Well, as I said you could always reroll on Balmung. As long as you don't mind a little RP with your srs bsness, it's a great place to be! And to be honest, I'll take an RPer over an elitist any day of the week! We all started this game knowing nothing about it after all.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

where did i say i don't wish to play with new people? im saying there are no new people to be had. the effects of people expecting others to know every last detail, or people just using your LS or You to get what they want then move on is a very serious issue. its not a me/you thing its an issue with the community as a whole.

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There are several new and returning players on my server everyday. Heck, 3-4 a week usually apply to my ls a week. So either no one like Gungnir and re-rolled/start on a different server,which is doubtful or you just don't know where/how to look for them...at any rate, there has been an influx of new and returning players to this game since the Welcome Back/Veteran Campaigns...and they keep rolling in.

As to the actual point...you are generalizing about the community. Some LS's will of course turn you down...it is their right, but others would be happy to have another face...just depends on who you find. However, if you expect some random LS to want to teach you how to do hamlets, you are asking a bit much as they can find someone else atm they don't need to train. The reason they don't want to always bring a new person is because they have been spending ALOT of time on hamlets...and you basically need a 55K+ (Ideally 60K+) score to get a chance at a seal drop.

Assuming a group statics with the same 8 players:
9 seals x 8 party members= 72 seals needed.
Lets say they do enough runs to get 3 seals every day. so 72/3=24 days.

That's almost a month of solid grinding to get 9/9 on seals for 8 people. Now yes, there are 'slightly' faster ways to do this, such as being top provisioner (top 3) etc. But typically, ls's have 8-12ish people they are trying to 'seal-up' If they risk even one fail to teach a stranger hamlets, that could put them a day off schedule...actually 3 as you can't do the same Hamlet 2 days in a row. So when ls's are not 'training' new people on hamlets, it's not because they are trying to be elite or to exclude, but simply more people=more days of grind. For people already a month+ in this process, asking them to add more time on to their grind to help someone out is just unfair.

That being said, there are a BUNCH of people on every server who have either been:
1. Freelancing seals
2. Not ready to work on hamlets until now
3. Only realized they needed a group to do relic now.

Most of these folks would JUMP at the chance to join a static group or Hamlet/Relic LS.

If you were to start a ls and advertise for it, you could in theory make your own Hamlet static of 8-16ish people and while yes, it might take you a weekish to get the whole crew good at their respective roles, you would be far more productive than whining on forums that no one will help you. Heck, as you are already a leader in a ls, is there not a small group (at least 3 people) in it that want relics? Maybe you could just static with them+friends of them and you. But again, you can't expect other players to hold your hand. You want something, sometimes you gotta put yourself out there and go for it.

Another option, albeit a tad bit more risky...is to get yourself top 3 provisioner status...and then stand outside the Hamlet and advertise that. You WILL get seals as a top 3 provisioner (and they drop to your loot list so you can't share them)...you can get seals as long as your group finishes the hamlet, doesn't matter what the score is. So if you can't even as a top 3 provisioner find a PUG or group to join, you could shout in Uldah for 7 other people and go out and as long as you win you should walk away with something.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

To be fair though Molly, Gungnir and Durandal are the more elitist servers so it is pretty server specific with how people treat that.

"Anyone want to do Moogle? Experienced players only!" < That's pretty common. How does one gain experience if they're not allowed to go? Even in linkshells both social and end-game they still prefer only experienced players so if you happen to be new to the game or never gotten to do the fight yet, you're out of luck.

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thats not elitist thats normal

even the jp shouts on our server specify if its a "experienced wanted" or "practice PT"