Dawntrail Graphical Update - Au Ra Feedback

Just wanted to drop my two cents in here, too: don't really like what happened to the fish face option. The mouth was COMPLETELY changed, should be reverted back to the old design. I liked how cute and silly they looked but its like it was erased.

Benchmark:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLKWITpX...g&name=900x900
Live:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLKdcCgX...g&name=900x900

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLL9yVcX...png&name=small

I'm not a big fan of how the new eyeliner looks cause it results in the eyes looking too big, round, and soft for me. The lips also became thinner for this specific option. I tried looking at the other options but none of them seem to give the same feel that my wol originally had. :'(

(The new scale textures look great!)

Mao wonderings why new looks making Au Ra looks like suckings on rhubarbs.

I decided to create an account here for this. I think they changed a lot of my character and while some changes are good, she's a different character in the end.

Old: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q6R...ew?usp=sharing
New: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EkP...ew?usp=sharing

To me, these changes were made:

• Hair looks much better, I prefer new one, fluffier and more alive.
• Horns and the tail both look better, although the colour is grey instead of dirty white which I don't like.
• Scales seem like someone cut them from paper and glued them on her skin. I like that they look more detailed/realistic now, though. However, I wish they'd remained thick. The colour issue is here just like with the horns and the tail.
• Her new visible eye seems to have a sharper corner to it which makes her look more tired/pissed off. I prefer her earlier innocent eyes.
• The mouth seems shortened and gives me this "duckface" impression. No. That's not what I want, ever. It's like she's puckering up a tiny bit. There's an actual emote for that, no need for my character to look like that all the time when idle.
• I've seen this seam on her neck where the scales look worse, it seems unfinished.
• Those limbal rings are different. Like totally different. I loved the fact I could originally make her eyes have this cool blending effect where the yellow eye gets all hazy. It's gone, replaced by brown limbals. If I wanted to only have the brown circles around the eye, I would have chosen them originally.
• Pupils look bigger and their borders are soft, just like with real eyes. Well... I actually prefer more unnatural eyes in video games, so that's not what I want.
• The new nose looks longer to me and its nostrils seem smaller. However, I believe this is only because of lighting change and is no big deal at all.

All of those changes together make her look a few years older. Given that time has passed between ARR and DT, it doesn't feel too bad. However, it feels jarring when so many changes are thrown at your face at once.

I've played with her for years, thousands of hours. While some other WoLs also look very good to my eyes, for me, she's the WoL. I created her with the old graphical limitations and did as good of a job as I've ever done. She's my favourite character I've created since I started creating them in video games in the late 2000s.

Continues in my next message.

Continues from my first message in this thread.

That's what makes it so sad. If anyone asked me if I wanted to play the older or newer before touching the game, I'd go for the newer character. However, I'd still wonder why I couldn't get the better-looking eyes.

I think the changes remind me of face four, which I would've chosen originally, had I actually wanted to play with it. The face two has always given me this goofy and gentle vibe. Empty sometimes, yes, but it's the face that resembles my actual one the most. The fact that I could somewhat see myself in my character brought me joy.

A benchmark mug shot: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Dxy...ew?usp=sharing

The colour of the limbal ring looks a bit better here, but that sneer. I don't think the old face would've looked quite like that. Meh. However...

A better benchmark picture: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1b2F...ew?usp=sharing

Her eyes look alright in that picture, blending of the limbal ring and the iris seems to happen like it should. It seems that with this new engine, getting a character looking good really depends on the lighting. Before, the characters just either looked good all the time or (rarely) really horrendous with bad lighting conditions.

The goofiest picture of old Haname: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qHA...ew?usp=sharing

There's no way to achieve those sort of funny moments anymore with these new graphics. That makes me sad, I love the empty fish eyes sometimes...

I tried to fix her with the character creator, but the best I could do was to remove the limbals completely, so her yellow eyes looked better.

I may use that free Fantasia. I may not. I don't know if I can get used to playing what's essentially Haname's older sister at this point. She's beautiful, for sure. She's just not Haname.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by larsa7

Continues from my first message in this thread.

That's what makes it so sad. If anyone asked me if I wanted to play the older or newer before touching the game, I'd go for the newer character. However, I'd still wonder why I couldn't get the better-looking eyes.

I think the changes remind me of face four, which I would've chosen originally, had I actually wanted to play with it. The face two has always given me this goofy and gentle vibe. Empty sometimes, yes, but it's the face that resembles my actual one the most. The fact that I could somewhat see myself in my character brought me joy.

A benchmark mug shot: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Dxy...ew?usp=sharing

The colour of the limbal ring looks a bit better here, but that sneer. I don't think the old face would've looked quite like that. Meh. However...

A better benchmark picture: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1b2F...ew?usp=sharing

Her eyes look alright in that picture, blending of the limbal ring and the iris seems to happen like it should. It seems that with this new engine, getting a character looking good really depends on the lighting. Before, the characters just either looked good all the time or (rarely) really horrendous with bad lighting conditions.

The goofiest picture of old Haname: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qHA...ew?usp=sharing

There's no way to achieve those sort of funny moments anymore with these new graphics. That makes me sad, I love the empty fish eyes sometimes...

I tried to fix her with the character creator, but the best I could do was to remove the limbals completely, so her yellow eyes looked better.

I may use that free Fantasia. I may not. I don't know if I can get used to playing what's essentially Haname's older sister at this point. She's beautiful, for sure. She's just not Haname.

---

Yeah, i think Face 2 had a charm to it's goofiness that was lost in transition.
And it 100% has to do with the mouth.

https://imgur.com/a/6gAKOP7

Okay, I took a bunch of screenshots and tried to make them as identical as possible. This is going to get long and granular, so please bear with me. I play the game currently at gamma 40 and character lighting 20. I put gamma at 40 for the benchmark to match but there's no character lighting option. Bringing the gamma and character lighting even lower and changing the colors of her skin and eyes may be able to alleviate some of my issues with how the colors look. However, there is still a lot wrong that altering colors with a Fantasia won't fix. I'm going to list every change I can see. Let's get started.

https://i.imgur.com/g5Xw1L0.png https://i.imgur.com/Cm60MFi.png
Female Au Ra Raen face 3
Things I like:
- Better hair texture
- Better horn and scale texture
- Nose is more defined

Things I don't like:
- No limbal ring glow
- Bigger pupils. This makes her look more tired and lifeless.
- Thinner, lighter colored eyebrows
- Lighter and more ashy skin tone
- Way lighter and less saturated makeup
- Different horn and scale color. The original is a warm bone white color, while the new one is a colder color.
- Scales have a dirty look to them. It doesn't look like natural shading, it looks like gunk caught in them that needs scrubbing out.
- Dull, lifeless hair with no shine
- The lips are totally different. Just a flat :| where she once had a slight:} shape. Thinner, no shine, different color. This is the change I have the biggest problem with.

Different lighting conditions:
https://i.imgur.com/HF99Pqk.png
The lighting in the Gridania room always looked bad imo, but even with gamma set to what I currently use in game in the benchmark, she still is noticeably lighter. This could be fixed by lowering the gamma further, but that has other game play effects like how well I can see lower light areas on my screen, so I really don't want to lower the gamma too much just to fix her skin color. I may be able to put her one space darker on the skin color menu, but that could be too drastic of a change too. And players already at the darkest end of the menu can't do that.

https://i.imgur.com/bwjMCdo.png
The dullness of the eyes is very noticeable in this one. She looks like a thrall to a necromancer in the benchmark here.

https://i.imgur.com/S6FldJQ.png
You can see the eye glow here at least. It actually glows more in the benchmark than the current graphics. Which is fine, but I want some brightness during the day, too.

https://i.imgur.com/iH2Chg4.png
The shadows on the benchmark look much nicer in terms of graphical fidelity and her skin tone is much closer in direct sunlight. But she's got the dead zombie eyes again and there's still something about the color of the new skin tone that doesn't quite feel right to me. Her hair has also lost a lot of vibrancy and looks flat and has a gray cast even in direct sunlight.

https://i.imgur.com/Xbq6krf.png
Once again, we get that weird skin tone where it looks like she's almost glowing or has a light source right near her even though her face is in the shade. I know that darker skinned characters had a hard time being seen in some low-light conditions, but this isn't even low light, really, it's just shade on a sunny day, and she still looks like a light is pointed at her. Feels weird and unnatural.

https://i.imgur.com/R1zne75.png
Once more, the shadow rendering here is much better in the benchmark. But how, in direct sun like this, does she still have no light reflections in her eyes? She still looks like a dead fish here, and the lips also look real bad in this light. Direct light and no shine at all.

https://i.imgur.com/PAB5P4Y.png
This one seems to have a greenish cast to the light in the benchmark, but that might be from the surrounding grassy area in the new lighting system, so I won't worry about it too much.

https://i.imgur.com/RqIG3j7.png
Once more, the skin tone is much closer in direct light, though it seems to have lost some of the reddish-pink undertone she has in the current game. We get the tiniest hint of a light reflection in her eyes, finally, yet she still looks sad and tired next to the original.

https://i.imgur.com/YcQoVA4.png
https://i.imgur.com/IwRPERL.png
Some other angles on the base character creation screen. I wanted to take these to show that the change in the lip shape isn't just a fluke from a certain angle or whatever. Also very noticeable here how much lighter her eyebrows and her eye makeup is. I can't make her eye makeup darker--these are the darkest shades available.

The lips have to be the most egregious and needless change of them all, though. A big reason why I chose face 3 was because of how much I loved the shape of her lips. It's a huge charm point to me. I take screenshots and gpose with her a lot, so of course I notice these things. While the lighting on the glossy lipstick could sometimes interact strangely with the environment, I'd take it over whatever this is.

https://i.imgur.com/Kuh5Cu5.png
- Top of lip is pointer in benchmark. Original has more roundness.
- Mouth line is more of a flat :| shape vs the original slight :} shape
- Bottom lip is much smaller and has less volume and fullness along the edges, most notable in the third row. See how before, while at an upward angle looking down, you can see the original lips protruding a bit over the shadow under her lips. This is no longer the case in the benchmark.
- Color has shifted. She is supposed to be wearing dark purple-maroon lipstick. It just looks brown in the benchmark.
- Barely any shine. Looks like she's wearing the uncomfortable matte liquid lipstick I kept trying to wear because it was "cool" in 2018. My lips feel dry and cakey just looking at it.

I can live with the other changes, even if they still irk me somewhat. But not the lips. I draw the line at the lips. I ADORE my character's beautiful lips, and these changes make her look like a different person. They have GOT to fix these lips. Watching her in the benchmark trailer without her signature lip shape was depressing.

Haven't posted on the forums almost ever, but have to join the dissatisfied people on this, I'm not very pleased with the changes.
Namely, the lips/mouth area (as others mentioned). Face 4 model behaves very weirdly around the mouth no matter the type, and the lips lack any depth or definition, like they're copy-pasted from somewhere else, shape's different too. Dead-looking eyes as well
Hopefully they tweak this eventually, I'm pretty jealous of people whose characters barely changed xD

Left is DT Benchmark and the right is current:

https://i.imgur.com/KTw51SD.png
https://i.imgur.com/M6N1HAP.png
https://i.imgur.com/2tcU7aA.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by larsa7

All of those changes together make her look a few years older. Given that time has passed between ARR and DT, it doesn't feel too bad. However, it feels jarring when so many changes are thrown at your face at once.

---

It's extra jarring for someone who hasn't even finished the story too. I'm actually right before Shadowbringers. I don't even know if I want to keep going at this point while all of the redesign stuff is still up in the air. I kinda feel like I'd just miss her old face more if I did, but if I do wait then it'll feel even stranger when the transition happens halfway through the plot. :(

I'll preface this by mentionning this isn't my first rodeo, I've played many games in which our main character "suffered" a graphical change (one of them even made me quit the game completely, I'm looking at you Destiny 2), so I knew a 1-to-1 update was not a reasonnable expectation.

After seeing so many people being disappointed with their "new" WoL I was dreading a bit testing my girl with the Benchmark, but to put it mildly I'm extatic with her new look, Dawtrail will be a huge glow-up for her :o

She looks like a proper adult woman now, which makes complete sense to me given what that poor soul had to get through these past few years, she's no longer smoll bb adventurer. Though it seems she lost a bit of her tan, I might have to play with her skin color a bit.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...670&height=676 https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...767&height=676

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...700&height=676
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...360&height=350

The dynamic catchlight in the eyes can be pretty deceiving. On static screenshot taken in shadows it looks as if the new eyes are soulless, but as soon as there's just a tiny bit of light in the scene it's IMO a huge improvement.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...777&height=676
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...829&height=676

1/2

2/2

I'm (nearly) a big fan of her new mouth, after all these years it's finally closed! And upper lips have more character to them, they are way less flat than before. Of course everything isn't perfect, the lower lips is fuller around the edges, which is a tiny bit annoying.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...819&height=676
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...769&height=676

Overall I'm very satisfied and can't wait for her next adventures in Dawntrail!

I hope though we had a Beta version of the character creator to play around, because some glaring issues feel out of character from CB3 (neck seam, body scales having artifacts, etc).

And while I'm here sitting in my happy corner with my upgraded character, I have to feel for my fellow WOLs who are disappointed with the new look. I know how awful it is to not recognize one's character anymore, and I hope CB3 will be able to take your feedback into account and mitigate the issues you're facing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by antylamon

Left is DT Benchmark and the right is current:
https://i.imgur.com/KTw51SD.png
https://i.imgur.com/M6N1HAP.png
https://i.imgur.com/2tcU7aA.png

---

The top of her cheek scales have become rounded and warped, too, as well as the scale over her nose... I only just noticed this happening to some Au Ra. Things like this keep making me feel nervous about whether or not a human was actually making some of these changes, admittedly.

Dear AuRa players, if you are unhappy with enlarged pupils - please return them to Veena Viera, we miss them very much

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SongOfTheWind

Dear AuRa players, if you are unhappy with enlarged pupils - please return them to Veena Viera, we miss them very much

---

BOO! HISS! YOU CAN PRY THESE SMALLER PUPILS FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS! I LIKE SEEING MY EYE COLOR FOR ONCE! >:[

Decided to load in my retainer who is made in the image of my favorite 40 year old Oronir culinarian and at a glance, every time, I thought the images from the benchmark were the "older" or more unpolished graphics because the lighting is so flat. It's only once I look at the hair and scale textures I realize no that much nicer shadow effect is from the old engine.

So with him:
1) The softer lighting engine makes his face and hair so flat. To the point it looks like dated graphics. The previous graphics had the feeling of being stylized not dated realism.
2) Again with the lips, they have been simplified to the point they lost their previous expression. He was frowning before now his bottom lip is sticking out and he's pouting.
3) The eyes are just "dead inside" not "I am 40 years old still working food service and that's Not Great but I'm still alive dang it". I think it's the larger pupil and lack of shine which makes the eyes look more relaxed/unfocused.
4) I don't like how "crisp" the pattern is on the body scales, on both raen and xaela it looses the organic feel that the OG body scale patterns have. However I do like the texture update on his face scales a lot esp the nose one (ignoring the horribly pixelated border on said nose scale).
5) His face is no longer pinched/the brow isn't furrowed! That was a charm point!!
6) While the planes of the face are now clearly smoother he is in dire need of an exfoliating wash the face texture is so extreme.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/a4db1fec...8eb289eb79.pnj
https://64.media.tumblr.com/747cd6a5...f323dafe92.pnj

And lastly an actual seeming bug that an Elezen playing friend says Elezen are reporting too: There is this weird color/light issue on the lips but specifically in the Shroud in the benchmark. It isn't there in the live character creator though.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/d84375cc...8a8d7ad9ed.pnj

So for those having trouble with face 4's fish-like mouth I recommend trying out mouth 4
It doesn't fix the added dimples, and the lips aren't as full, but the mouth is wider and the lips are less puffy so it still gives that kind of sharp feel the other lips gave.
https://i.imgur.com/xN32Oxg.png
https://i.imgur.com/Fn6vtTR.png
In the creator it's not sold very well but in motion it works pretty well?

https://i.imgur.com/j3mIxQS.png
https://i.imgur.com/PHLo8Cm.png
https://i.imgur.com/5BSkh2H.png
https://i.imgur.com/do46YZz.png

While I love how my Au Ra turned out in the benchmark for the most part- she looks somewhat translucent. Her skin reminds of a jellyfish or a puddle of milk; which honestly is off putting.

I think the lipstick could be toned down- and it should include sliders. Matte to gloss sliders, none-light-medium-vivid lipstick transparency is how it should be imo.

Also, with this update come DT, will we ever see actual additions to the character creator? The ones people have asked for for years? Like different horns & being able to change horns? New faces?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...75b5a3a002f59&


-------------------------

Also, the nostrils in female face #4, it looks like someone had to poke holes in her face but the nostril closed up. The nostrils on this face resembles the external nostrils on a bird- it's unsettling.
Her nostrils don't need to be shaped all the way around, or better yet, there needs to be some contouring around the alar sidewall of her nose (skin on outer edge of nostril) And it needs to be the same length as the nostril- because currently in the benchmark, her nostrils are longer and narrow, more than the outer sidewalls of her nostrils are, giving a bird like look.


I made a subtle contour edit to her nose and septum area, and added the static eye highlight


Benchmark before my edit
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...d659dfde8055b&

Benchmark after my edit
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...64f87ccc160a9&

I never posted in the forum. so my apologies if the pictures don't work. Edit: and they don't xD so I restructured the post so my point is at least logical without them.

Even as someone who typically is not on the forums, I still feel that there are weird things here. So I should at least try to make myself heard irregardless of whether it has any effect as just screaming into the void won't change anything.

I agree with many of the issues pointed out here to varying degrees but since I myself play femra face 4 that is what I will comment on.

The mouths are just weird and especially the extreme dimples with the femra face 4 are just... too strange?



I have so far not heard anyone make any argument why those dimples should be so extreme? I have for example seen people argue that the eyes are now more natural which I won't comment on.

Of course it is only the case when light hits the face but that isn't an excuse in any case, after all we won't know what lighting is common in the MSQ, in cutscenes, in the town etc. and I honestly do not understand why this extreme change was made in the first place as I also have yet to hear anyone say that they prefer it with the extreme dimples.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sekhar

I never posted in the forum. so my apologies if the pictures don't work.

Even as someone who typically is not on the forums, I still feel that there are weird things here. So I should at least try to make myself heard irregardless of whether it has any effect as just screaming into the void won't change anything.

I agree with many of the issues pointed out here to varying degrees but since I myself play femra face 4 that is what I will comment on.

The mouths are just weird and especially the extreme dimples with the femra face 4 are just... too strange?

Here is an unflattering picture which took me like a minute to make after loading up dawntrail benchmark. Since many say gridania has the best lighting of the char creation areas that was what I took. The dimples are far too pronounced in my opinion.

https://i.imgur.com/QVqZq70.png

and another in a different environment that nicely illustrates that point with more "artificial" lighting

https://i.imgur.com/681sbvy.png

And I know this is an effect of the lighting, here is a picture done at evening light (same location as first pic) where you basically don't notice them:

https://i.imgur.com/4UagNAK.png

I have so far not heard anyone make any argument why those dimples should be so extreme? I have for example seen people argue that the eyes are now more natural which I won't comment on.

Of course it is only the case when light hits the face but that isn't an excuse in any case, after all we won't know what lighting is common in the MSQ, in cutscenes, in the town etc. and I honestly do not understand why this extreme change was made in the first place as I also have yet to hear anyone say that they prefer it with the extreme dimples.

---

Here, I fixed your pictures for you. <3 I also am face four and don't appreciate the dimple-fication of my girl. If I wanted dimples on her I would've used a different face from the start.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roda

So for those having trouble with face 4's fish-like mouth I recommend trying out mouth 4
It doesn't fix the added dimples, and the lips aren't as full, but the mouth is wider and the lips are less puffy so it still gives that kind of sharp feel the other lips gave.

---

That's the one I already use sadly. ;_; I picked it originally because it was less full than the others and I was going for the least glamorous looking fem Au Ra I could. But then the Dimple Nation attacked.

Hi developers of Final Fantasy XIV!
Thank you for your release of the benchmark and letting us have a look at the graphical updates. While I am mostly excited to see the game in 7.0, I unfortunately also must add that there are a few changes/updates I am less excited about that I hope can be reconsidered.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...e34f5bbfbafce&

Here is a picture of the current female Au Ra face 2 in the game.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...e8befa3ec492c&

And here is a picture of the same face as of 7.0 as seen in the benchmark with the exact same settings.
The lighting on the character when viewed in character creation is a bit strong and makes the face appear rather flat in the 7.0 version.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...9159d4ee0e22b&

The lips have been significantly changed. Shown here is a comparison of Lips 1 between old and new graphics:
- they appear smaller
- dimples are gone
- they are more straight
- appear more monotone and stiff

I feel like the lips have lost a lot of the definition that was nice to see in the old model, is there a way to reach a middle ground or keep the old shape of them but in updated graphics?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...0436db28132a5&

In certain harsh lighting it almost appears as if the mouth is being "sucked in".

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...c76889faa168d&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...5e7043e10fb84&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...ba0ed5ed19a86&

When performing emotes a line appears on the neck, indicating the head model does not align properly with the body model, which would need to be adjusted before finalizing the update.

I appreciate all the hard work the developers put into making this an enjoyable game and I hope that the player's wishes are taken into consideration!

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...e7fc595f19819&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...f5457b118e9ac&

I've been playing this char in very few variations since hw...and I really....really hate the new version of my char with a passion.
The lips are not the same at all and the eyes have a different tilt...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xirai

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...e7fc595f19819&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...f5457b118e9ac&

I've been playing this char in very few variations since hw...and I really....really hate the new version of my char with a passion.
The lips are not the same at all and the eyes have a different tilt...

---

It's consistently Au ra face 2 with pretty rough differences in the mouth region.

Face 4 lips got changed almost as much; it's like they removed the dimples from 2 and added them to 4. Add the other changes on top of that and the result is that all the faces have a more standardized look now... but the fact that they were all stylistically different is what gave each of them their appeal in the first place. 1 was conventionally cute, 2 was soft and silly, 3 was a bit more mature, and 4 was sharp and a little threatening. Now they're all cute. Which is great if you like cute, but everyone else is up a creek without a paddle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smashBG

Face 4 lips got changed almost as much; it's like they removed the dimples from 2 and added them to 4. Add the other changes on top of that and the result is that all the faces have a more standardized look now... but the fact that they were all stylistically different is what gave each of them their appeal in the first place. 1 was conventionally cute, 2 was soft and silly, 3 was a bit more mature, and 4 was sharp and a little threatening. Now they're all cute. Which is great if you like cute, but everyone else is up a creek without a paddle.

---

I play face 2 so those changes really slapped me across my little fish face but even at a glance the other 4 also were clearly sanded down into the same "pretty girl" feel that used to just be face 1's domain. It also totally changes the vibe, part of what made Sadu of the Dotharl was how unapproachable and sharp she looks (compliment)(I love her). Similarly Cirina is helped by having the girl-next-door face 2, as one of our first allies on the Steppe her /looking/ approachable and friendly is important. I'm thinking that since we may not run into many (or any) Au Ra over in 7.0 zones that our lizards were the homework done in the 5 minutes before the benchmark launched. This feels especially true when you compare male elezen to us (at least going off the sample size that was my FC and retainers).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smashBG

Face 4 lips got changed almost as much; it's like they removed the dimples from 2 and added them to 4. Add the other changes on top of that and the result is that all the faces have a more standardized look now... but the fact that they were all stylistically different is what gave each of them their appeal in the first place. 1 was conventionally cute, 2 was soft and silly, 3 was a bit more mature, and 4 was sharp and a little threatening. Now they're all cute. Which is great if you like cute, but everyone else is up a creek without a paddle.

---

Yes, precisely. If I wanted cute or soft I would've went with a different face. I wanted sharp and threatening and now I have round and dimpled after eight years of sharp and threatening. I'd love to give these dimples back to face 2, they miss them and I don't want them. ;_;

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AstiSpumante

Decided to load in my retainer who is made in the image of my favorite 40 year old Oronir culinarian and at a glance, every time, I thought the images from the benchmark were the "older" or more unpolished graphics because the lighting is so flat. It's only once I look at the hair and scale textures I realize no that much nicer shadow effect is from the old engine.

So with him:
1) The softer lighting engine makes his face and hair so flat. To the point it looks like dated graphics. The previous graphics had the feeling of being stylized not dated realism.
2) Again with the lips, they have been simplified to the point they lost their previous expression. He was frowning before now his bottom lip is sticking out and he's pouting.
3) The eyes are just "dead inside" not "I am 40 years old still working food service and that's Not Great but I'm still alive dang it". I think it's the larger pupil and lack of shine which makes the eyes look more relaxed/unfocused.
4) I don't like how "crisp" the pattern is on the body scales, on both raen and xaela it looses the organic feel that the OG body scale patterns have. However I do like the texture update on his face scales a lot esp the nose one (ignoring the horribly pixelated border on said nose scale).
5) His face is no longer pinched/the brow isn't furrowed! That was a charm point!!
6) While the planes of the face are now clearly smoother he is in dire need of an exfoliating wash the face texture is so extreme.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/a4db1fec...8eb289eb79.pnj
https://64.media.tumblr.com/747cd6a5...f323dafe92.pnj

And lastly an actual seeming bug that an Elezen playing friend says Elezen are reporting too: There is this weird color/light issue on the lips but specifically in the Shroud in the benchmark. It isn't there in the live character creator though.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/d84375cc...8a8d7ad9ed.pnj

---

To add to this, they significantly reduced the Roman/aquiline nose on nose type 1 and 5.
https://i.imgur.com/bBi1bGk.png
https://i.imgur.com/jaORwj2.png
https://i.imgur.com/xgXJxSn.png
https://i.imgur.com/FoN8zfW.png
This was a trademark of one of my characters and it's disappointing to see that it's as if they're trying to "correct" a "flaw". I would rather they simply upscale the textures and models than make design changes at this point, since so many people are attached to their characters.

I hope they can add more colorful lip options so that I could create an Au'Ra that doesn't look edgy but instead appears lively and pleasing. Most of the time, I have to choose between dark or pale lip colors. In this benchmark, it looks even worse. Not only does it resemble a lifeless doll with no soul, but the face structure is also more rounded and feels quite odd. The eye rings are positioned closer to the eyes than the original, resulting in a noticeably different appearance. Furthermore, the mouths are too small or resemble a pointy Mii character's face.

I am not a fan. It is particularly egregious on Raen, who do not naturally have the black elsewhere to compliment it.

Here is my character as he is now:

https://i.imgur.com/D8VD2Al.png

Here he is in the benchmark:

https://i.imgur.com/UOK8eiP.png

That added black eyeliner might work for a few looks, but it doesn't mesh with mine at all. If it was an additional face option, this would be all good, but there is no way to opt out of it.

It really affects the general feeling I get when I look at my WoL, and I do hope that this is reconsidered before launch.

I appreciate the devs working hard to give us the new graphics update, but the Au Ra's faces are just off-looking. Part of what made the female au ra so charming was that each face had a very distinctive shape and vibe, but now all of the faces feel somewhat homogenised.

https://i.imgur.com/95DourA.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/Kv77m4l.jpeg

I don't want to be all negative so first I want to list the things I really like about the update:

• I like how the limbal rings have been redone. I am very glad that they still look like they glow!
• I also like the updated textures on the horns and tails (though the artifacts on the scales are defintely an issue).
• The backlighting and subsurface scattering on the horns looks amazing. The way the light shines through the horn tips is amazing!

As for what I really don't like about the graphics update (specific to female face 2):

• As everyone else has pointed out, the lips have been greatly changed. My Au Ra originally had very round and wide lips. Her new lips aren't as wide across her face, which makes them look weirdly small compared to her other facial features. The lip shape is also more angular, and the cupid's bow is wider than before, completely chaning the entire lip shape. The lips lack the darker line that seperates the top lip from the bottom lip, which makes for an awkard straight-faced expression. The lips also lack the previous gloss/shine. My biggest grievance with the new lips is that they lack the previous dimples! The dimples gave my Au Ra a soft expression and helped to accentuate her facial expressions.
• The nose has also been greatly changed. The nostrils are more prominent and well-defined, which I feel gives a weird uncanny look. The tip of the nose/nostrils also looks more upturned than before, which makes some of the shadow that fall onto the nose look strange. Overall, I think that the new noses look almost a bit too realistic.
• The eye shape has also been changed. The change is subtle, so it's a bit difficult to describe, but my Au Ra's new eyes appear to be slightly shrunk horizontally and stretched vertically, which makes her appear less youthful. The eyeliner/eyeshadow is also subtler.
• The new philtrum is also much more defined, and it meets the lips at an angle rather than going straight down like it did before. I think that the sharper philtrum further exacerbates the issues I had with the nose and lips, especially in harsher lighting.
• The actual shape of my Au Ra's face has been changed. Her cheeks used to slightly pucker out before meeting with the chin, but now the transition between the cheeks and chin has been smoothed (this is easiest to see at the 3/4 angle). My Au Ra's cheeks aren't quite as chubby, and she has lost some of her baby face. Her overall jawline looks sharper too. This new face shape also affects how all her other facial features are placed too, particularly her new lips.

Some Before (Left) and After (Right) shots of my Face 3 Fem Ra.

Features used:

• Eyebrow Shape - 1
• Eye Shape - 2
• Nose Shape - 2
• Jaw Shape - 3
• Mouth Shape - 4
• Eye Color - R: 92 / G: 30 / B: 30
• Limbal Ring Color - R: 85 / G: 24 / B: 35
• Face Paint #1 (Eye Shadow), Dark, Fully Black

Both game and benchmark are set to Gamma 50.

https://i.imgur.com/mCPTu68.jpg

Overall, a lot of generally positive changes in the surface texture department. However, I do some have... concerns.

1. Pupils are larger and less distinct compared to the rest of the iris, which gives the eyes a very different overall look.
   
   
2. The limbal ring is much duller. I was able to "correct" this by moving the ring color to a much lighter hue (R: 143 / G: 49 / B: 74), but I feel like that shouldn't be necessary in the first place.
   
   
3. Similarly, her hair is much lighter than previously.
   
   
4. The horns and scales are very dark now, which results in some of the improved details and textures being lost.
   
   
5. Aside from the face, the edge of the scales looks very jagged, with irregular small protrusions where the original has relatively smooth contours.
   
   
6. Where the scales on the horns and face look clean and detailed, the scales on the body look much different. Not in a good way. They seem much less detailed and don't appear to have the same style of texture, or even the same color palette. It's jarringly inconsistent compared to the face, and the body scales need to be brought in line with the face scales.
   
   https://i.imgur.com/2GB1elE.png
   
   
7. I know this is optimistic to ask, but doesn't hurt: I'd love to see some additional options for scale coverage on the body—arms, legs, back, etc. Current auri scale coverage just feels very sparse, almost entirely around the ankles, wrists, and hips.
   
   
8. The lips feel very dull. They no longer really look like lips at all, but rather like skin that just has some red highlighter brushed over it. There's no gloss or sheen, and the texture feels lifeless.
   
   
9. The bottom of the nose / nostrils is not only noticeably wider, but is noticeably flatter than before. (See markups below for comparison). The nose lost a lot of its "narrow" appearance. =(
   
   
10. Her eyebrows are considerably thinner top-to-bottom and appear to be slightly shorter left-to-right as well. Perhaps because of that, they also appear flatter, with less arch than before. Perhaps it's simply that they're blending more with the skin along the edges, but they feel like they've lost a lot of their "pop." Fem Au Ra have no facial feature option to further thicken their eyebrows, so they seem to have lost their former character with no way to replace it.
    
    
11. It's hard to put my finger on it exactly, but her skin seems slightly more... grey? Her original skin has a faint red hue to me, but it feels like that's been desaturated in the benchmark

https://i.imgur.com/MYbQTJ7.jpg

This has been said a lot, but I just feel like leaving my opinion as well because I feel a bit conflicted (I apologize for grammar errors, English isn't my first language).

https://i.imgur.com/aKqI3xX.png

The reshape of the mouth makes it look like it lost something. The edges of the mouth are not as deep anymore. But what I feel it affects more is the smile.

https://i.imgur.com/BQWX9sP.png

https://i.imgur.com/PhPJnp0.png

I love my girl's smile. I feel like the change of the corners of the mouth, as well as the shape in general, makes it look less like a natural smile and more like a hard curve upwards, and that makes it feel like she is forcing a smile and doesn't even want to be there. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by karadazkar

The limbal ring is much duller. I was able to "correct" this by moving the ring color to a much lighter hue (R: 143 / G: 49 / B: 74), but I feel like that shouldn't be necessary in the first place.

---

Not sure if this will work for your Au Ra or not, but might want to check in different areas and times of day. I thought mine were duller at first too, as you can see the old look (left) is brighter than the new one (right).

https://i.imgur.com/R2PkGmV.jpg

However, if I switch to night in limsa it looks like this. Again old left, new right.

https://i.imgur.com/Ir0BRrN.jpg

The rings are much brighter now, at least at night. It seems that the rings will be super bright at night, but not very noticeable at daytime.

https://i.imgur.com/HdWrHAv.jpg

And as an aside, I think my girl looks great with the update an can't wait to play DT. Though, I do hope SE can find a way to make everyone as happy as I am in the end. ^^;

https://i.imgur.com/Gb50eqp.png
https://i.imgur.com/9ojYLKT.png

About the only thing I'd ask for is slightly shiner lip colors. Otherwise I'm good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdventZero

Not sure if this will work for your Au Ra or not, but might want to check in different areas and times of day.

---

Even if this is the solution, I don't really want my previously consistent characters to only look like themselves in particular lighting.

I feel a lot of creative liberties was taken when updating the facial structures of the player models
It's understanding that the general facial structure becomes softer with higher poly count, but I'm not found of how noticeable different some of these changes are
My character now has a slightly wider face, bigger facial scales (though I like this change), nasal bridge is wider and more even, lips are more plump and the iris feels much more fussy than before
What I liked about this face type is how sharp everything is, but now it has lost a bit of its charm and edginess with the new nose, mouth and eyes
https://i.imgur.com/5sySckb.png
https://i.imgur.com/CzWfmA5.png

Not quite the same angle, but his overall expression has gone from sharp and determined to mysterious and ambiguous
https://i.imgur.com/LgspAnR.png

And regarding the iris and limbal rings I gotta admit they're pretty neat on its own, however they deviate from the original design
The glow can get fairly muted sometimes too, which is noticeable with the aetherial background in character creation and towards the end of the benchmark
I would personally like to see that limbal rings get a more consistent glow regardless of light source
https://i.imgur.com/r2hIXsr.png

Last but not least I'm not found of the new scale texture, it has lost some of its lively colour, depth and thickness
They don't seem to match the horn colour as much as they used to either (though that's a nitpick)
https://i.imgur.com/2NhFWQ1.png
https://i.imgur.com/AY9bZ5E.jpg

However the horns looks great
Exactly what I expected from the graphical update, edges are slightly softer with the higher poly count, the overall volume feels fuller/rounder, yet it retains its original silhouette
I do hope this feedback gets taken into consideration along with everyone else's, keep up the remarkable work

(oh almost forgot, the glove is clipping through the hand)
https://i.imgur.com/t1qYwko.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smashBG

Face 4 lips got changed almost as much; it's like they removed the dimples from 2 and added them to 4. Add the other changes on top of that and the result is that all the faces have a more standardized look now... but the fact that they were all stylistically different is what gave each of them their appeal in the first place. 1 was conventionally cute, 2 was soft and silly, 3 was a bit more mature, and 4 was sharp and a little threatening. Now they're all cute. Which is great if you like cute, but everyone else is up a creek without a paddle.

---

Yeah, I don't want cute and soft, I don't want dimples, I want my character to still be looking as fierce, bold, and fiery as she is now in the live game. That's her defining character trait, and it's no longer her without her fierceness and determined look.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tarath

Not quite the same angle, but his overall expression has gone from sharp and determined to mysterious and ambiguous
https://i.imgur.com/LgspAnR.png

---

Not to take away from your otherwise valid feedback, but I think the facial animation in the benchmark screenshot is unique to the benchmark and meant to mirror the CGI trailer, so it looks a lot more "> : )" than what we're used to (on my character it looks a little uncanny to be honest). So this shouldn't reflect on how existing facial animations will look, if that can give you some reassurance.

or at least I hope so...

This is my first time posting on the forums. Personally never felt the need to give feedback until now because of these graphics changes. They are so drastic that my WoL doesn't even look like the same person anymore. Sorry about the image links. I'm not sure how to get them working

The most egregious change would have to be the eyes and lips. The pupils have at least doubled in size, coupled with the gradient of the iris getting darker (than 6.58) near the upper eyelid plus the lack of reflections further adds to that undesirable dead eye look... It's especially apparent on lighter colored eyes like my own WoL. The narrower pupils, consistent iris color and eye reflections makes her look much more focused.

The lips now have dimples (why?) and more shading around the lips that makes it look more pronounced as if it's jutting forward. It also seems to contrast more noticeably around the bottom lip giving it a different look that seems larger than the original. I also noticed the glossy-ness of the lips seemingly swapped with the glossy-ness of the skin. Now lips look matte and the skin is more shiny which is the opposite of what it is in 6.58 right now. I prefer the way it is in 6.58 by a large margin.

The skin is noticeably lighter/less saturated as even at the lowest gamma setting, my WoL's skin still looks very bright. Under certain lighting conditions however, her skin looks worse off as if she's sick like in the 1st comparison.

The hair is hard to describe. Colors seem to be more pale but also darker parts got darker? It makes the hair seem more coarse or rough and less smooth or soft as it is in 6.58. Despite upscaling textures, pixels are still very much there and will be noticeable when gposing (which is my end game). I'd much prefer 6.58 over 7.0 hair.

Comparisons (left 6.58 - right 7.0)
All pictures are taken at 0 gamma correction.

1.

https://imgur.com/a/CVypQlb
https://i.imgur.com/RRBTT49.png

2.

https://imgur.com/zg7U6AM
https://i.imgur.com/zg7U6AM.png

3.

https://imgur.com/R8gTlcW
https://i.imgur.com/R8gTlcW.png

4.

https://imgur.com/A41xQ0b
https://i.imgur.com/A41xQ0b.png

5.

https://imgur.com/A41xQ0b
https://i.imgur.com/A41xQ0b.png

6.

https://imgur.com/jI9wz0X
https://i.imgur.com/jI9wz0X.png

7.

https://imgur.com/DTF1DmY
https://i.imgur.com/DTF1DmY.png

8.

https://imgur.com/9Lp3HAF
https://i.imgur.com/9Lp3HAF.png

9. Eyes

https://imgur.com/g5HDePj
https://i.imgur.com/g5HDePj.png

10. Lips

https://imgur.com/0t8uIx5
https://i.imgur.com/0t8uIx5.png

Ribey is scared of the changes T-T

https://i.imgur.com/oq2th1q.png

part 1/2