[Graphical Update Feedback] Eyes and Limbal Rings on Au ra

I absolutely, 110% do not like this Limbral Ring change. Upgrade the polygon count, sure. Do not remove the uniqueness of Au Ra Limbral Ring eyes. I like my Limbral Rings to look like they are glowing. Hell, if they want to change the Rings more than just polygon count, outright add a faint glow to them so they stand out even more in the dark. I would also accept upping the brightness on the rings, so they don't blend in and just look plain like in that 7.0 picture.

I love my bright blue Limbral Rings. They look very neat and unique to my character. This change just makes your eyes look like everyone else's eyes. Boring. When I swapped from Hyur to Au Ra, one of the things that sold me on going through with the change was seeing how cool the Limbral Rings made my eyes look! I will literally start using addons to get my eyes back the way I like if this change is implemented, and I've been no plugins since I started in 2014.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

As is, its easy enough to make a gradient with the current system. If they were not intended to "glow" then they should never have offered the ability to make them so bright.

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I think that's just a side effect of trying to make the brighter colours pop with poor graphics. There's no doubt the eyes are meant to be pretty bright as a feature of the race, but if they had intended the more artificial, neon glow look they have now, they wouldn't be changing it in the upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I think that's just a side effect of trying to make the brighter colours pop with poor graphics. There's no doubt the eyes are meant to be pretty bright as a feature of the race, but if they had intended the more artificial, neon glow look they have now, they wouldn't be changing it in the upgrade.

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still whether it was originally intended or not, it has become part of the identity for many players after it has been in the game for what like 8 years, and the spirit of the graphics update is supposed to be things will still look the same, just better

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Originally Posted by ZanseiStone

still whether it was originally intended or not, it has become part of the identity for many players after it has been in the game for what like 8 years, and the spirit of the graphics update is supposed to be things will still look the same, just better

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But there's a conflict there between "things are supposed to look the same but better" and "please preserve this graphical issue because I identify with it as part of my character." This is the same but better, it just results in a more harmonious and natural look. Au Ra were never intended to look like androids.

i do think the new eyes are like 90% of the way there to being a straight improvement personally, its just that last 10% regarding the glow of the limbal rings that i have concerns with, and hope that feedback is taken into account to preferably providing the option of a glow for your limbal ring if you want

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

...but some people dig that effect from the looks of it, which is fair enough. I do think, though, that it's more of the same with regards to the other graphical update complaints so far - people have become so attached to their characters that they've come to perceive graphical limitations as character traits, and I think once they get over that, they'll warm up to the new looks more than they think.

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No. Just no. I don't want to warm up to a 'new look,' I want my character's current look. The devs made it a point that is a goal for this update, is to preserve the overall looks of our characters. People who like the glow, shouldn't have to lose that glow that fits their character nor warm up to a new version of the rings. It isn't about graphical limitations, it isn't anything complex. I want the glow, cause it fits my character's look and I built my character with the rings glow in mind. You can dislike the glow of the rings, but that doesn't mean we have to accept them being loss or warm up to the idea of a lack of glow, when some of us didn't intend with such an idea when making an Au Ra.

Again, we shouldn't be tackling this with the idea of glow vs no glow. But be pushing for a glow toggle/brightness options to allow everyone to have the ability to alter the limbal rings as they wish for the best of both worlds.

The original intent doesn't matter, when the goal IS to preserve the overall looks of players characters. If characters believe there is a glow effect and want that preserved, regardless of the original intent of limbal rings or why that glow occurred. It is the devs responsibility, in a effort to adhere to those goals, to establish a toggle for glow/glow effect in an effort to preserve that identity for those characters. It is fine, if you are using intention and etc, to argue or dismiss people who like/want the glow. But that doesn't mean we can't push for options so we can preserve what we intended with our characters as well.

I completely refuse to accept the idea of warming up to REMOVING an option I CHOSE ON PURPOSE.

Dunesfolk eyes are a good example of a contrast, they're less empty than I was originally drawn to, but they aren't like, adding clear high-def pupils, just a stronger suggestion of an iris than before. They aren't drastically changing a major character trait, just making it more detailed.

I don't care what their intentions were. Their intentions are meaningless after YEARS of these being the options available. When I started, the option to not use limbal rings existed. I could pick between more human-looking eyes, limbal rings where the eyes matched the rings, or the freaky inhuman high-contrast look. I CHOSE the high contrast. On purpose. I do not and will not accept my choices being removed from me. They do not need to remove my choices, to add more detail to them. There is no defending this, no accepting this, it is wrong it is wrong it is wrong.

It is not improvement if it takes away the choices I made. They've shown VERY CLEARLY that they can improve the graphics, add details they didn't have before, to eyes that have a very particular aesthetic people enjoy. So in seeing the difference between retention of aesthetic between Dunesfolk and Au Ra, I refuse to accept what they're doing to the limbal rings. More detail, higher graphical fidelity, that's all fine, BUT KEEP THEM GLOWING. If you don't want your eyes glowing, don't use limbal rings.

I no longer like how angry I wrote that but I still stand by the content.

I would agree that I picked the limbal rings because of how bright they were and how well it complimented the eye color with that brightness on any Au Ra I made. I would hope they do retain that and there is just an option between the two so people who like this get it and people who like the older brightness can retain it.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I think that's just a side effect of trying to make the brighter colours pop with poor graphics.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

But there's a conflict there between "things are supposed to look the same but better" and "please preserve this graphical issue because I identify with it as part of my character."

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I've seen the same rhetoric used in the feedback thread on Roegadyn eyes and I find it quite low to call what was the norm for all of us until recently "poor graphics", "mistakes" or "issues", just because we have something to compare it to now, and because it is different and new, it must mean previously established graphics must be "wrong" somehow.

The game established an art direction within the technical limitations of its time and its engine, and regardless of how much things have improved on a technical level, they have stated themselves that they want to "preserve the existing style".

Style is not the same as technical improvement. It's a creative intention that can be shaped by technical limitations, but it remains an artistic choice nonetheless.

It's a bit difficult to put into words exactly what I mean, so I'll use another example from the Technical Art panel to illustrate it:

https://i.imgur.com/vGQSMGP.gif

I'd argue that on this model, the stylistic choices have been preserved. It doesn't look exactly the same, some things have moved a little (the little nails on the chest, the right shoulder), more contrast has been added on the embossing and between the armor plates and the chainmail, but I would say that the stylistic choices have been preserved.

The only exception I can see are the decorations on the lower belt: before it looked like they were a mix of metal and leather (or maybe painted metal), and after it looks like they're made of only metal, with the darker background engraved into it. That's not just adding more polygons and shaders and pixel resolution on the texture, that is a conscious artistic decision from whoever redesigned the model.

I can't find the original concept art for this armor so I don't know how the belt was originally intended to look, but if you look at the artwork here you can see that the details are closer to the original model than the new one.

https://i.imgur.com/md2PxqO.png

Now look at how Magnai is designed. Both the highlights in his hair and the weapon he was given (a reskin of the Tremor Axe) are a direct callback to his striking yellow limbal rings that contrast against his dark facial marks, his skin and his scales. That is 100% an artistic decision.

Now imagine him if the light in his eyes went out. Would you still call him the same character, with the same design, the same feel?

stealth bump

I've been rethinking about my last post and what's been said in the thread on future gear and dyeability, and I think you could argue that the change of hue of the metal material on the armor is also a stylistic change that has its share of problems... It looks more detailed in how it reflects light, sure, but it is very blue compared to the current model and the artwork I linked, and that might cause problems when matched with metallic pieces from other sets.

It would be nice to have it shown in another environment, with a different lighting, and a different sky (a Thavnairian sunset could work well), to see how the material behaves under different conditions, or if it's really going to be this blue all the time.

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Originally Posted by SchwarzwaelderTorte

It would be nice to have it shown in another environment, with a different lighting, and a different sky (a Thavnairian sunset could work well), to see how the material behaves under different conditions, or if it's really going to be this blue all the time.

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They did that. Watch the technical panel from the last fan fest.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

They did that. Watch the technical panel from the last fan fest.

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You mean the video I've been regularly referencing throughout this thread? They only show a night preview, in the same environment and the same weather conditions. The video that shows a full day/night cycle doesn't feature any metallic parts. It's not really what I'm asking for.

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Originally Posted by SchwarzwaelderTorte

You mean the video I've been regularly referencing throughout this thread? They only show a night preview, in the same environment and the same weather conditions. The video that shows a full day/night cycle doesn't feature any metallic parts. It's not really what I'm asking for.

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Not sure which you're refering too, haven't bothered reading through all of this thread.
But I think this is what CidHeiral's refering to.

https://i.imgur.com/mddh7Je.jpg

Regarding this thread tho.
My take on it is mixed.
As a former AuRa player (Heavensward up to Shadowbringer) I sure did enjoy the uniqueness of the limbal rings.
However, after some time after seeing the London stuff I'm not as against it.
I think that after the update the AuRa have less on an "owl" stare with the intensity the limbal rings gave a lot of them.
They look more natural after the update, more lifelike and not as fabricated.

Oh, I missed that slide when I was skimming through the video before writing my post, my bad my bad.

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Originally Posted by SchwarzwaelderTorte

I've seen the same rhetoric used in the feedback thread on Roegadyn eyes and I find it quite low to call what was the norm for all of us until recently "poor graphics", "mistakes" or "issues", just because we have something to compare it to now, and because it is different and new, it must mean previously established graphics must be "wrong" somehow.

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It's not low, it's reality. They weren't wrong, they were just a result of low-quality graphics, and it's been kind of obvious to everyone else who isn't as intimately attached to the character design.

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The game established an art direction within the technical limitations of its time and its engine, and regardless of how much things have improved on a technical level, they have stated themselves that they want to "preserve the existing style".

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That's exactly what they are doing, and I think you've misinterpreted what they mean by that. The fundamental style of the characters hasn't changed at all, it's the textures and palettes that are changing to create more realistic, detailed-looking characters and in their current iteration, unfortunately a lot of the technical flaws fans are now citing as "design choices" would stand in the way of that. They don't look good or natural.

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armor

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I don't really see how this contradicts what I'm saying. The plain, bright silver has been toned down into a more muted, natural-looking material, which is essentially what they're doing across the board and what they are doing here. That to me is no different to the change between the current limbal ring and the new limbal ring, honestly. It's removing the bland, flat textures and replacing them with something much richer and more lifelike.

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Now look at how Magnai is designed. Now imagine him if the light in his eyes went out. Would you still call him the same character, with the same design, the same feel?

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Yes, if anything, he'd look a lot better, his eyes would match hair hair more, and he'd look less like a Naruto supervillain, lol. His hair isn't bright yellow.

The goofy neon actually detracts from his design, if I'm being honest. Like I said before, they look cheap and flat, they date the look of the character, and make him appear dead-eyed like 90% of Au Ra with the same features do.

Looking at the picture Evergrey posted, the "After" looks infinitely better than what we have now. Their eyes look much more natural and alive, while still maintaining their bright, piercing effect in a way that doesn't make the graphics look fifteen years old and the characters like they fell out of an cheesy graphic novel.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

They look more natural after the update, more lifelike and not as fabricated.

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That's my biggest gripe with them - the rings don't look organic or an innate part of the character at all, but more artificial, like they're wearing contact lenses or they've been added in as some sort of modification feature, and that's why I think the devs have chosen to mute them in the first place. I don't think the unnaturalness of their appearance was intended.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

That's my biggest gripe with them - the rings don't look organic or an innate part of the character at all, but more artificial, like they're wearing contact lenses or they've been added in as some sort of modification feature, and that's why I think the devs have chosen to mute them in the first place. I don't think the unnaturalness of their appearance was intended.

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Well, according to Reddit post.

"As revealed in a recent-ish Korean fanmeet, where the lore devs revealed those rings are magically implanted within their tribes/families for rituals."

So, if that's true, then they were intended to be artificial to begin with.

for me personally i prefer the new limabls. i only had my limbal rings dyed black because they make the eyes pop. now i will be able to make them green

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F68itJmW...png&name=small

Some of the arguments about the art direction here are so bizarre to me. "It's more realistic" and "it's more natural looking" have come up several times and for what reason? For a feature that is inherently unrealistic in a game that, regardless of how they ever update it, keeps a fundamentally anime/anime-adjacent art direction? Of course everyone is subject to their own opinion, but I gotta say, saying the dude who's nigh seven feet tall with dark sclera and horns protruding from his head is suddenly too goofy when his fantasy-colored limbal rings glow is...lol, you know.

Anyway, more to the point, the female Au Ra shown in the preview image doesn't look more alive because they changed that specific bright shade of yellow to suddenly be conveniently complementary to her pink eye color. She looks more 'alive' because they increased her pupil size by like, a billion, (a shortcut effect often used to, you know, make animals and babies look "cuter"), smoothed out the shape of the limbal ring, and gave the eyes proper light reflection.

As well, I really do feel like this feature is way less likely to be an oversight than anything in the other thread about eyes. It was literally just a texture placed over their eyes before; they could have chosen a range of saturation for something like that. You see the same thing done to tattoos in CC. And again, the main issue is that they are just fundamentally changing the color wheel here (which isn't truly the case for anything else they've focused on showcasing so far, as it has just been mostly lighting). Regardless of how people feel, this does directly go against the "we don't want to change how your character looks" claim most of all, since it poses the risk of being unable to recreate your characters' original color scheme. Which, IMO, is probably the thing they want to be most careful with preserving in this update, considering the limits of customization in this game.

The graphics update is definitely going to make characters look different. I think it's an improvement overall, though---the characters, though they look different, also look more like living beings. The best thing they can do, in my opinion, is give everyone a fantasia with the update.

On the limbal rings, specifically: my prediction is that limbal rings that are white or almost white (on the color selector) will stay mostly the same (on the character) before and after the graphics update. Meanwhile, limbal rings of darker and more saturated colors (on the color selector) will change (on the character) to look more like the color shown on the color selector. Right now, a lot of limbal ring colors look near-white on the character (especially yellows and oranges) even if they look saturated on the color selector. Effectively, players have been without the option to give their au ra characters rich yellow and orange limbal rings, and now we might finally be getting that option. Admittedly, it's an optimistic prediction, but it's the choice that makes the most sense to me.

In general, it seems like characters' eyes are getting the riskiest changes. It's most obvious with au ra, but the eyes of other races look different too. They look good, when considered on their own, but they all seem to have changed color (compared to the before picture) in some noticeable way. Some that look light in the "before" pictures look dark in the "after" pictures, and some seem to have changed the other way, going from dark to light. Some seem more muted and others seem to have more intense colors. Even I think it's a bit concerning...the apparent randomness is what bugs me, more than anything.

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Originally Posted by ConantSivrha

In general, it seems like characters' eyes are getting the riskiest changes. It's most obvious with au ra, but the eyes of other races look different too. They look good, when considered on their own, but they all seem to have changed color (compared to the before picture) in some noticeable way. Some that look light in the "before" pictures look dark in the "after" pictures, and some seem to have changed the other way, going from dark to light. Some seem more muted and others seem to have more intense colors. Even I think it's a bit concerning...the apparent randomness is what bugs me, more than anything.

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I hope the overall movement will be towards more eye colours that look "right" for eyes. There seems to be very little middle ground between "too pale" and "too intense" for any given colour.

Hello it's benchmark day and I'm bringing this thread back from the dead ∠( ᐛ 」∠)＿

Once again I'm mostly focusing on eyes (mainly Au ra ones), I see there is another thread where people seem to be talking about Au ra lips and faces, so I wanted to keep the two matters separate.

So. Here are my comparisons.

https://i.imgur.com/sQM2i6M.png

As you can see, importing directly the character presets I currently have in 6.58 was a huge change, and my first impression was honestly shock and disappointment. The glowing limbal ring is barely visible with this color combination, and all contrast has been lost. I thought I would never be able to get my character again past 7.0.

By picking the next shade in the color palette, however, I was able to get something relatively similar, but it still feels like the light has gone from the limbal ring (even if, yes, technically, it glows in the dark, I checked).

It looks a little better in the benchmark itself, so it might be affected by the environment and lighting, but I'm a little sad that this means that the glowing limbal ring will look more or less visible in cutscenes, gpose and such, when until now it was always visible, sharp and striking, even from a distance.

Then comes another problem: I am aware that the shader used on the 6.58 limbal ring does not perfectly follow the color palette that is assigned to it, but that allows us to use colors that are not currently provided by the color palette, in this case a turquoise/cyan.

That shade of cyan also happens to be a color that is widely used in FFXIV (the Hydaelyn crystal, aetherytes, the eyes of several important NPCs, etc), and that is exactly why I had chosen these color settings when I made this character... (Warrior of Light etc, you get it)

So having them "upgraded" to a greenish teal is honestly disappointing. It respectfully follows the shade selected on the color palette, which I guess makes it less frustrating for some new players, but it does not respect the promise of "we won't change your character".

I think it's also high time that the color palette gets an upgrade too.

https://i.imgur.com/Vy9pWd1.png

As you can see, there is very little diversity in the blue-green area, especially compared to yellow and orange. Pink is also not very well represented here, it quickly goes from purple to desaturated red. It would be nice to get more options there.

Hair color wise, I think we're also crucially missing more shades of brown, as well as more saturated colors. If you take the reddest shade of red, red hair will still look faded. If I remember correctly, the All Saints' Wake NPCs (the clown and his wife) have more saturated hair colors that are not currently available to players, so it would be nice if we too could be allowed to have more colorful hair.

I know the trend nowadays is to put RGB sliders and HEX codes in character creators, but I don't think it's necessary here (and I imagine these presets exist due to technical limitations and memory issues). So I would only like to request that we keep using the existing color palette, but that we get more options (and preferably colors that mimic the ones that used to be available on limbal rings).

I think this would both fix this issue, as well as satisfy all players, especially with a free Fantasia on the way. More options to choose from is always better. (also, it's Hyadelyn blue, come on, how can we not have the Hydaelyn blue)

I know this might seem like a very niche issue, and the dev team probably has a lot of other things on their plate already, but I wanted to bring it up nonetheless. I'm also curious to see what everyone's limbal rings look like in the benchmark, so please share comparative screenshots if you can!

I have to disagree with you about the benchmark. I feel like they listened to the feedback and it's glowing much more than before, and the colors don't look all that different. The one thing I noticed is that it just blends with the rest of the eye more than before, but I can get used to that. I'm very happy with the changes personally. Besides, you can change the limbal ring color as much as you want without a fantasia, so tweaking until you find the perfect color for you wouldn't be an issue. The glow IS there, and it's very noticeable during the Benchmark cutscenes!

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Originally Posted by chizLemons

tweaking until you find the perfect color for you wouldn't be an issue

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well I've just explained why it is an issue and why the color palette should be improved, the perfect color simply isn't available in the character creator anymore...

I've been looking at other threads and I'm starting to think this is something that's affecting blue-green eyed Au ras the most.

Blue-green eyed Au ras examples:
Example 1
Example 2
Example 3

Other colored eyes examples:
Example 1
Example 2
Example 3
Example 4

It could also be, as I said, because we simply have less shades to choose from so we're not able to tweak it as much as other eye colors.

If I take chizLemon's Au ra for example, you have red eyes:

https://i.imgur.com/vkF88tn.png

... You have to admit that you have more range to find "the perfect color" in the red hues than in the cyan ones. If you want an actual blue it's the same story, you only have 2-3 rows before it goes into full purple or full green. And then if you want glowing limbal rings of that color you really only have 6 choices (and I'm being generous, the lightest shades are both very white and barely distinguishable from one another).

I guess i mostly lucked out on the Pink/Purple-Iris/slight red range.

(or im just slowly trying to convince myself/cope that everything is alright.)

depends on how much lighting hits, since Purples are blue/red.

in my case some are brighter and darker depending on the angle/zone/light angle.

mixed with the changes of how shadow works on the face. (the shadow from character noses being more obvious. i really need to check my alts, not out of worry, but more of curiosity.)

https://i.imgur.com/QK03Rxw.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/qsxlg4C.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/D2u0k7t.jpeg

New^/Old Below

https://i.imgur.com/JJZMkPT.jpeg

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