The Lessons Not Learned.

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10-20-2022, 12:51 AM
Atelier-Bagur

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatre

But haven't almost all relics started with a stupid easy, done in no time flat, first step? The only one I can think of that took any time was ARR when you had to go out into the world to find the treasure that got turned into the relic. The others were mostly tomestone related, were they not(been a while since I did them, so I could be wrong on some of them)?

That's literally what I've been saying but people love to play ignorant.

Seriously who cares. I'm sure later down the road when people start hating on the relic grind again they'll look back at how nice and easy the first few steps are.
10-20-2022, 12:56 AM
Bukachu

Idk I checked the amount of quests I need to do andd honestly this is hella grindy, way more grindy than HW weapon is.

and I assume we'll upgrafe this weapon a multiple times right?
10-20-2022, 12:57 AM
Avatre

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

That's literally what I've been saying but people love to play ignorant.

Seriously who cares. I'm sure later down the road when people start hating on the relic grind again they'll look back at how nice and easy the first few steps are.

I don't doubt it. There is always going to be someone unhappy with anything. Even if it's light grind like in ARR, where there are bonus windows for it.
10-20-2022, 01:01 AM
Atelier-Bagur

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bukachu

Idk I checked the amount of quests I need to do andd honestly this is hella grindy, way more grindy than HW weapon is.

and I assume we'll upgrafe this weapon a multiple times right?

What are you talking about? All you do is grind tomestones to buy 3 items for your base weapon
10-20-2022, 01:02 AM
hagare

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatre

But haven't almost all relics started with a stupid easy, done in no time flat, first step? The only one I can think of that took any time was ARR when you had to go out into the world to find the treasure that got turned into the relic. The others were mostly tomestone related, were they not(been a while since I did them, so I could be wrong on some of them)?

GASP! get your facts out of this place!
10-20-2022, 01:14 AM
Avatre

Quote:

Originally Posted by hagare

GASP! get your facts out of this place!

Someone has to speak the truth when people forget how things were, and likely will be again and again and again.
10-20-2022, 01:23 AM
Atelier-Bagur

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatre

Someone has to speak the truth when people forget how things were, and likely will be again and again and again.

That seems to be the norm. People quickly forget things and easily get nostalgic.
10-20-2022, 01:24 AM
Moerser

Sounds like...the usual day 1 shitpost?

Greetz o/
10-20-2022, 01:35 AM
Nezerius

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatre

Someone has to speak the truth when people forget how things were, and likely will be again and again and again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

That seems to be the norm. People quickly forget things and easily get nostalgic.

Kind of ironic how this applies to both of you, since it's pretty clear that neither of you remember the first step of the Heavensward relic.
Y'know, the step that required a significant amount of time farming FATEs in every Heavensward zone, for a total of 18 crystals (3 from each zone).
10-20-2022, 01:38 AM
Valkyrie_Lenneth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nezerius

Kind of ironic how this applies to both of you, since it's pretty clear that neither of you remember the first step of the Heavensward relic.
Y'know, the step that required a significant amount of time farming FATEs in every Heavensward zone, for a total of 18 crystals (3 from each zone).

I just turned in my 2.0 relic, was done instantly.
10-20-2022, 01:40 AM
Avatre

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nezerius

Kind of ironic how this applies to both of you, since it's pretty clear that neither of you remember the first step of the Heavensward relic.
Y'know, the step that required a significant amount of time farming FATEs in every Heavensward zone, for a total of 18 crystals (3 from each zone).

Please see bolded part from my initial post in this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatre

But haven't almost all relics started with a stupid easy, done in no time flat, first step? The only one I can think of that took any time was ARR when you had to go out into the world to find the treasure that got turned into the relic. The others were mostly tomestone related, were they not(been a while since I did them, so I could be wrong on some of them)?
10-20-2022, 01:41 AM
Alleo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nezerius

Kind of ironic how this applies to both of you, since it's pretty clear that neither of you remember the first step of the Heavensward relic.
Y'know, the step that required a significant amount of time farming FATEs in every Heavensward zone, for a total of 18 crystals (3 from each zone).

And others could just turn in their old relic and be done. Just like someone that has already farmed the 1.500 stones can turn it in right away, while someone like me who has just bought some gear will need to do quite a bit of content to get back there.

That is also only for one relic. Those of us who play more than one job will also have quite some things to grind.
10-20-2022, 01:43 AM
Nezerius

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I just turned in my 2.0 relic, was done instantly.

This may come as a surprise to you, but not everyone was running around with a Zeta relic by the time 3.15 was released.
10-20-2022, 01:43 AM
Avatre

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleo

And others could just turn in their old relic and be done. Just like someone that has already farmed the 1.500 stones can turn it in right away, while someone like me who has just bought some gear will need to do quite a bit of content to get back there.

That is also only for one relic. Those of us who play more than one job will also have quite some things to grind.

Don't forget those like me who are collectors and will end up with all the relics finished.
10-20-2022, 01:43 AM
Kaurhz

I'd be curious to see how many more people would be complaining if they actually went the similar route to ARR-SB for their relics, seeing as we have 19 classes now, and not only that but seeing how many people historically hated these stages of the relic pre-nerf.
10-20-2022, 01:46 AM
Valkyrie_Lenneth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nezerius

This may come as a surprise to you, but not everyone was running around with a Zeta relic by the time 3.15 was released.

I had 3 of them by then lol. All done before each step was nerfed.

Same with the Animas, tho I have them all completed now. Ironically, I have none from eureka that are fully completed, tho slowly working on the bozja ones as I did all my DR runs before 6.0 released.

The only "hard part" about eureka was leveling up. The rest was just grind fates for items and get relic... Once leveled you could finish a relic in a day if you really wanted to.
10-20-2022, 01:55 AM
Nezerius

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatre

Please see bolded part from my initial post in this thread.

You sure got on your high horse pretty quickly in the posts after that though, despite forgetting about a relic that isn't even as old as the 2.0 one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleo

And others could just turn in their old relic and be done. Just like someone that has already farmed the 1.500 stones can turn it in right away, while someone like me who has just bought some gear will need to do quite a bit of content to get back there.

It's amusing that you're comparing the 2.0 Zeta grind to something short like 1500 tomestones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatre

Don't forget those like me who are collectors and will end up with all the relics finished.

It was incredibly rare to find someone who finished all the Zeta weapons during ARR. But you wouldn't know, considering you haven't even finished a Zeta relic until 2020.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I had 3 of them by then lol. All done before each step was nerfed.

Congrats? I finished the DRG, WHM and PLD ones during ARR. Point remains that the majority of the players going into Heavensward didn't have one, and had to do the first step properly.
10-20-2022, 01:56 AM
Bukachu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

What are you talking about? All you do is grind tomestones to buy 3 items for your base weapon

you needd, to do, questline, before, you can turn in, those 3 items.

which part, is unclear?
10-20-2022, 02:03 AM
ty_taurus

Hasn't the first step of the last couple relics been relatively fast and easy, and then future steps start taking more time?

Something else to consider is that they may be balancing the grind around the amount of total jobs which continues to increases. There were 9 jobs at the start of ARR. Now there are 19. Sure it's no time at all to get 1 weapon, but if you want to grind more, then do all of them.
10-20-2022, 02:08 AM
Avatre

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nezerius

It was incredibly rare to find someone who finished all the Zeta weapons during ARR. But you wouldn't know, considering you haven't even finished a Zeta relic until 2020.

And your point? I never claimed that I did them before HW. Hell, I didn't start playing until April 2015, so only a few months pre-HW. I only stated that I am collecting all of them.

I did all Bozja prior to any nerfs to it, I did up to Pyros with everything and those haven't been nerfed other than being able to buy the zones boss pieces from a vendor for the zones crystals. I will get all of the EW relics pre-nerf as well, as it gives me something to actually do in game other than send retainers/airship/submersible out, weekly deliveries, and WT every two weeks because that's basically how much I've been playing lately.

Edit: Also, for the HW relics, I had BLM, PLD, DRG, AST, and I think at least one more done before that started the nerfs on that. I knew there was the crystal farming, but wasn't sure if it was first step or not.
10-20-2022, 03:20 AM
DPZ2

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Interesting that you mention that. It's my personal theory (and probably several others' too) that the best way for a company to get fans to gloss over conspicuous errors is to form a very strong parasocial relationship with them.

That would certainly explain why Cyberpunk 2077 was such a hit at launch.
10-20-2022, 03:30 AM
DPZ2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nezerius

Kind of ironic how this applies to both of you, since it's pretty clear that neither of you remember the first step of the Heavensward relic.
Y'know, the step that required a significant amount of time farming FATEs in every Heavensward zone, for a total of 18 crystals (3 from each zone).

Yeah, the 2 1/2 hours I spent running FATEs in a single day were totally significant. It was problematic as well, since I ended up with 5 'extra' crystals that I didn't really want for the next job's grind. They're still in a retainer's bags somewhere I think.
10-20-2022, 03:32 AM
DPZ2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nezerius

This may come as a surprise to you, but not everyone was running around with a Zeta relic by the time 3.15 was released.

I suspect that you were one of them, however. Especially since you remember the 2.0 grind for the initial Zodiac relic weapon.
10-20-2022, 04:21 AM
SentioftheHoukai

Quote:

Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

So basically if you call someone they're 100% a tried n true shill...because you say so? Not how that works. You operate on this notion that people complaining are always in the right. Folks complaining are no more right than folks defending. Each have a right to do as such. The forums are a place for feedback negative AND positive.

I'll compromise, if we can call defenders fanboys n shills, we can call complainers haters. Only fair

(Also is you you DID know what the word means you wouldn't be using it the way you have)

Sure, but I too know what truly defines a "hater" as you put it. Most here don't, and simply use it as a blanket term to discredit valid critique. This behaviour has risen in frequency and intensity since the release of Endwalker, which has since defined Final Fantasy XIV as the best MMO that has ever existed and will ever exist. As well as establishing Yoshida Naoki as the the infallible God he always has been.
10-20-2022, 04:35 AM
Tiramu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avoidy

I think a major problem is the gulf between normal difficulty content, and extreme/savage. Extreme difficulty is a sweet spot for many people. Harder than normal, but not the steep penalty for failure like savage. And yet, we only really get one of those EX trials every several months or whatever. Meanwhile, if you enjoy normal difficulty content, that's like 95% of the game, and if you enjoy savage+, there're 4 raids per tier and an ultimate for you to sink your teeth into. The midcore people get lost in the middle. I haven't done the new Criterion dungeons yet, so I can't say if it scratches that itch or not. A relic could tide people over who just want something to do, but the way it was implemented, you can be done with it in a single day. Maybe more if you're gearing multiple jobs, but yeah. And the dungeons you grind for tomes aren't exactly fun. The level 90 dungeons are really lackluster this time around; I don't even look forward to doing expert roulette anymore because troia's a boring dungeon with an add boss, and the other one is just old at this point.

Basically if you're the type of person who's bored by normal difficulty stuff but either can't get 8 people together for savage or you just aren't interested in the prog process of wiping for potentially weeks because of other people, you get 1 EX trial roughly every time a new tier comes out and that is it. And people sorta stop running it after the first week because of how the content rollouts work. For example, when Barb EX came out, a week later the new savage came out so everyone I knew stopped caring about barb EX and the PF quality plummeted. I might be off-base here but I think the game's making a mistake by not appealing to this middle of the road group. Maybe criterion dungeons will scratch that itch. idk. People have been asking for harder dungeons for years, but the way the devs phrased its implementation, it sounded like they wanted to just make even more shit for the savage raiding crowd, since it's tuned for savage bis. I genuinely wonder if there's even a place for mid-tier difficulty stuff in this game anymore.

Sorry, am I being daft, but whats the steep penalty for failing a Savage? XIV has no discernable penalties for failure. Just keep going until you win/get your reward.

Otherwise, I agree with the thrust of what you're saying.
10-20-2022, 04:35 AM
Nezerius

Quote:

Originally Posted by DPZ2

Yeah, the 2 1/2 hours I spent running FATEs in a single day were totally significant. It was problematic as well, since I ended up with 5 'extra' crystals that I didn't really want for the next job's grind. They're still in a retainer's bags somewhere I think.

Oh sure, you must've hardcore grinded for those Crystals when that first step was released. In fact, you must've put in so much effort that you were completely burned out to even bother with the 2nd or 3rd step! :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DPZ2

I suspect that you were one of them, however. Especially since you remember the 2.0 grind for the initial Zodiac relic weapon.

You "suspect" that I was one of them, despite me stating that I finished three Zeta weapons during ARR. How exactly does this change my point that the majority went into Heavensward without one?
10-20-2022, 04:36 AM
IkaraGreydancer

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

Sure, but I too know what truly defines a "hater" as you put it. Most here don't, and simply use it as a blanket term to discredit valid critique. This behaviour has risen in frequency and intensity since the release of Endwalker, which has since defined Final Fantasy XIV as the best MMO that has ever existed and will ever exist. As well as establishing Yoshida Naoki as the the infallible God he always has been.

Seems like a 2 way issue. People calling folks haters and people calling folks shills. This is the sort of stupid bickering that I imagine keeps the devs from speaking here. It's a clown show
10-20-2022, 04:53 AM
DPZ2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nezerius

Oh sure, you must've hardcore grinded for those Crystals when that first step was released. In fact, you must've put in so much effort that you were completely burned out to even bother with the 2nd or 3rd step! :rolleyes:

Hardcore grind? Hardly. 20-30 FATEs in a few hours was a normal weekend activity for me in HW seven years ago. I took one look at the relic, didn't like the look and abandoned any further relic grinding. I had been burned once before when I lost my nice glowing bow after the 2nd phase back in ARR and abandoned that. Since then, I've had a number of show-glowy weapons that, somehow, just don't seem all that worthwhile.
10-20-2022, 05:44 AM
SannaR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nezerius

This may come as a surprise to you, but not everyone was running around with a Zeta relic by the time 3.15 was released.

Anecdotal evidence much? Just because you somehow didn't notice a lot of people not owning a Zeta by the time the HW relics started doesn't mean a lot of people had at least one. I remember people starting it and groaning about Atma farm 2.0 only to stop groaning the instant someone said they could just hand over their Zeta. Cause they could just go and skip the fate grind. I don't think I heard a lot of grumbling about HW til needing the sand.

I'm just glad any "materia" slotting in stopped with the ARR one. And really you got the base weapon for the ARR one fairly easily since the starter you just needed to get it crafted and have the correct tier three materia melded.
10-20-2022, 05:45 AM
DiaDeem

I don't know what to tell you. I've been enjoy myself like I haven't since Endwalker first launched.
Sorry you're not enjoying the content.
10-20-2022, 05:53 AM
Renalt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renalt

It's not white knighting. We know there are issues. Some of those issues are stupid and make no sense why the issue is there in the first place...however we all have things we DO like.

So I'm directly asking you. What makes you come back to the game? What DO you like if ANYTHING about the game. If your answer is nothing...why stay?

It's Ok Aveyond. Maybe you didn't see my question yet somehow only respond to select people. So I'll just quote myself and my question till you answer. I got all the time in the world and no...I won't let this slide. I'm persistent
10-20-2022, 06:10 AM
Xeronia

I would have taken something tied to Variant Dungeons myself given they made me do Hildibrand for the relic and somehow it isn't needed for the place ARR Hilidbrand covers the lore for. I also would have taken incentive to go in older content like going and getting an item from each of the four lords(or weapon series) to help wait times for that. My issue is when I hear ARR/HW like I thought it would be "Okay so go do older content to get the stuff for it and not a unique zone." It can still be that don't get me wrong but the first step being "Welp I had it done before even taking the quest" was a bit of a let down and that is basically the first step of the ShB relic, not the ARR/HW style they said we were getting.
10-20-2022, 06:13 AM
SannaR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renalt

It's Ok Aveyond. Maybe you didn't see my question yet somehow only respond to select people. So I'll just quote myself and my question till you answer. I got all the time in the world and no...I won't let this slide. I'm persistent

He might have you on ignore. Is he allowed to repeat things he's already said? Like the dynamic that happened during HW and basically all of HW? Cause it was full of dark and gritty and gray in morals and color. And how at least one character from back then somehow got defanged? Just cause they realized they were going down a bad path and after almost dying and having their old purpose in life not be a needed thing anymore went on to find another purpose?

Course he could also start in on all the non democratic governments the game had before they all became that way. Even though that horse has been made into violin strings, meat pies and glue by now with various people pointing out the actual differences in the styles of governments even post changes "debate" again.

I do remember him making a thread that didn't start out as their normal threads to the point I even mentioned it. Sadly I don't remember what that was as it got swallowed up by the many complaint threads he's made.
10-20-2022, 06:19 AM
SannaR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeronia

I would have taken something tied to Variant Dungeons myself given they made me do Hildibrand for the relic and somehow it isn't needed for the place ARR Hilidbrand covers the lore for. I also would have taken incentive to go in older content like going and getting an item from each of the four lords(or weapon series) to help wait times for that. My issue is when I hear ARR/HW like I thought it would be "Okay so go do older content to get the stuff for it and not a unique zone." It can still be that don't get me wrong but the first step being "Welp I had it done before even taking the quest" was a bit of a let down and that is basically the first step of the ShB relic, not the ARR/HW style they said we were getting.

So you wanted a fate grind at the start? You know the one thing HW and ARR both had one as a must the other as an option that many people gripe about? That they wish the devs would do something else that isn't just another fate grind? I'm sure we will get shoved into doing Lota for the five thousandth time again for 20 runs. But it probably won't happen until the next step at the earliest if anything.
10-20-2022, 06:27 AM
Xeronia

Quote:

Originally Posted by SannaR

So you wanted a fate grind at the start? You know the one thing HW and ARR both had one as a must the other as an option that many people gripe about? That they wish the devs would do something else that isn't just another fate grind? I'm sure we will get shoved into doing Lota for the five thousandth time again for 20 runs. But it probably won't happen until the next step at the earliest if anything.

While I like Fate grinds and would have taken them that is why my first suggestion is Variant dungeons given the ties to Sil'dih via ARR Hildibrand is obvious and it is the most suggested alternative I have seen people recommend. I really do not understand why variant dungeons wasn't the pick here honestly.
10-20-2022, 06:34 AM
vanaii

Covid content drought? Really?

I'm starting to think Av is intentionally posting absurdities just to see how people react.
10-20-2022, 06:48 AM
Renalt

Quote:

Originally Posted by SannaR

He might have you on ignore. Is he allowed to repeat things he's already said? Like the dynamic that happened during HW and basically all of HW? Cause it was full of dark and gritty and gray in morals and color. And how at least one character from back then somehow got defanged? Just cause they realized they were going down a bad path and after almost dying and having their old purpose in life not be a needed thing anymore went on to find another purpose?

Course he could also start in on all the non democratic governments the game had before they all became that way. Even though that horse has been made into violin strings, meat pies and glue by now with various people pointing out the actual differences in the styles of governments even post changes "debate" again.

I do remember him making a thread that didn't start out as their normal threads to the point I even mentioned it. Sadly I don't remember what that was as it got swallowed up by the many complaint threads he's made.

That may be he's blocked me and frankly I think it's about time I should block him because I hate crybabies and he's the biggest crybaby I've ever seen. Time to be an adult I guess and just block him. You've made a good point.
10-20-2022, 07:38 AM
Deveryn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renalt

That may be he's blocked me and frankly I think it's about time I should block him because I hate crybabies and he's the biggest crybaby I've ever seen. Time to be an adult I guess and just block him. You've made a good point.

Yeah, the hypocrisy is real with that fool. We shouldn't silence his voice, but don't you dare approach him with any kind of reason. :D
10-20-2022, 09:55 AM
Stormpeaks

Maybe if you get blocked it might be because you attack him in every single one of his threads and cry about it.

But what do I know, I know it's very difficult for you guys to ignore his threads, it's just a must to come cry in every single one of them.
10-20-2022, 09:58 AM
Atelier-Bagur

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Maybe if you get blocked it might be because you attack him in every single one of his threads and cry about it.

But what do I know, I know it's very difficult for you guys to ignore his threads, it's just a must to come cry in every single one of them.

ok aveyond sockpuppet account. whatever you say :/

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